Sanitary ice to expedite chilling?

[Photopilot]

I am having trouble getting my wort down to final pitching temps. I was thinking of use the immersion chiller to do the brunt of the work then tossing in ice at the end to get down to the correct temp. I am planning on adding water to top off my fermenter anyways.

How do I get sanitized Ice?


For the scientists out there: how can i estimate the target temp before adding ice to get to pitching temps?

 

[BrotherBock]

I used to freeze gallon jugs of water from the store. Then use that as my top off. Just cut the plastic jug off and you have a gallon sized ice cube.

 

[thekraken]

Alton Brown did this once in an episode of Good Eats, though he just used bagged ice from the store... I wouldn't do that.

If you ever start doing full boils you can just pump ice water through your IC to finish off chilling.

 

[Oceantendency]

Boil water then freeze it, however you don't know if any impurities got into the water before freezing; so it's always best to not put any kind of ice directly into your wort. Use the Immersion Chiller, plus use some really cold water to pour gently around the outside of your kettle to get that initial quick drop in temp. I usually have a Rubbermaid tote that I'll pour Ice Water into, then move the kettle from the burner and into the ice water bath. Between the ice water bath and the IC; I go from Boil to 70* in under 20 minutes, under 25min in our San Diego summers. Last brew I did it in 16 minutes.

 

[Photopilot]

Boil water then freeze it, however you don't know if any impurities got into the water before freezing; so it's always best to not put any kind of ice directly into your wort. Use the Immersion Chiller, plus use some really cold water to pour gently around the outside of your kettle to get that initial quick drop in temp. I usually have a Rubbermaid tote that I'll pour Ice Water into, then move the kettle from the burner and into the ice water bath. Between the ice water bath and the IC; I go from Boil to 70* in under 20 minutes, under 25min in our San Diego summers. Last brew I did it in 16 minutes.

I wish it was that easy. I am brewing 10+ gallon batches in an electric keggle. So besides having 12 gallons of boiling wort I have 30 lbs or so of stainless steel that is also very hot. Dunking it into a cold bath is not an option being electric. Using my "Abbie" chiller which is a pretty serious contraption it takes at least an hour and two bags of ice through a pre-chiller to cool down the wort.

I am trying to get 15 gallons into my new fermenter so this will take even longer than previously needed. It would be really nice to use the immersion chiller to knock off the initial heat then pour into fermenter and add ice. I like the frozen 1 gallon jugs from the store idea, I just don't have that much freezer space.

 

[thekraken]

What's the temp of the water going through your chiller? I scrapped the pre-chiller idea in favour of directly recirculating 32* ice water through it. Chills in no time, though I'm not chilling 10 gallons... Also, if you don't have enough freezer space to freeze a gallon jug do you have enough freezer space to make enough ice to make that much of a difference?

 

[Calder]

Do not use ice from an ice-maker, it may be contaminated.

Get some paper dixie cups. Fill with whatever water you would normally use for top-up. Tap water is OK, if that is what you normally use. Cover with clingfilm or foil, and freeze.

I don't know how many you will need, maybe a dozen. If you hold the cup in your hand, that will warm it up enough to get the ice to pop out.

 

[vincentAlpha]

Maybe time to reconsider your chiller? A CF chiller isn't that much aggro to build and you already have the main copper now as your immersion chiller if you think it'd take straightening and re-coiling without kinking or breaking (though budget depending I'd sell/give away the immersion and just use new copper). I get the feeling from what I've seen around here an immersion is fine for 5 gallon batches but once you go bigger CF wins out speed wise. I know I get my 5 gallon batch to pitching temps in about 10 minutes and I'm taking it slow. If you can get up to 1/2" line then you'd probably get your 10 gallons down faster then my 5 since I had to use 3/8".

 

[paperairplane]

I think it was Thoreau who said "Simplify, simplify simplify..."

How about this instead - use your current chill method until the beer gets under 100*F. Then put it in the sanitized fermenter and close it up. Now place it where it will be fermenting - go clean up and have a couple beers. Come back in several hours and your beer will be at the same temp it will be fermenting at. Aerate and pitch your yeast. If it's late, I sometime wait until the next morning to pitch. Nothing bad is gonna happen.

You save time. You don't need any new equipment. You have more time to relax and drink beer.

 

[jsprinceiii]

+1 on the counter flow chiller.

 

[soccerdad]

I've never had a contamination issue with ice made from RO water

 

[jsprinceiii]

Personally, I would never add "ice" to my wort.
Ice is not bacteria free, however it could bring on an interesting taste..

 

[Shawn_Brewin]

I have heard of using 2 Immersion Chillers in past posts. Put one in a five gallon bucket with bagged ice from the store and top up with just enough water to start to float the ice and then put the other in your Pot, hooking them up in series of course. I have really cold ground water were i am (Yellowknife NT, Canada) so i haven't had to try it yet, but i have read positive things about it from other brewers from warmer climates. I also like @Paperairplanes idea of just letting it sit and cool down naturally. I have let Wort sit in a Carboy for up to day before pitching due to waiting on a starter, just got to make sure you have a sanitized Vessel and an Airlock on it.

 

[MB331]

I soak a freezer-safe Rubbermaid food storage container and lid with StarSan then empty a gallon of store bottled water into it. I try to freeze it a day or two before brewing. Never had an infection and didn't waste a ton of water using an immersion chiller.

 

[Photopilot]

Maybe time to reconsider your chiller? A CF chiller isn't that much aggro to build and you already have the main copper now as your immersion chiller if you think it'd take straightening and re-coiling without kinking or breaking (though budget depending I'd sell/give away the immersion and just use new copper).

My equipment set-up is in transition. I have new vessels and a large conical. I will have a custom 2-tier stand welded and when it is done I will be making a double wall chiller with inline aeration for it as I have not figured out how to pick up and shake a 15 gallon conical.

I am not sure of my ground water temp but winter days are often in the 70s so getting wort into the 60s will always take some effort. If i could get the water down to below 100 then pitch it over ice, it could expedite my brew day.

I have heard of using 2 Immersion Chillers in past posts. Put one in a five gallon bucket with bagged ice from the store and top up with just enough water to start to float the ice and then put the other in your Pot, hooking them up in series of course.

My current chiller has a pre-chiller then splits into two lines which feeds two separate chillers intertwined. I have used every combination of prechill and cycled ice water. I think by increasing the initial throughput I might have better results. At this point I am just tired of the work required to chill this much beer and can't wait for a real chilling solution.

Do not use ice from an ice-maker, it may be contaminated

Get some paper dixie cups. Fill with whatever water you would normally use for top-up. Tap water is OK, if that is what you normally use. Cover with clingfilm or foil, and freeze.

I had no plans on using ice any ice I can not trust and up until your dixie cup idea I did not have a way to trust any ice. I like the idea of a quick rinse of Star-san in the dixie cup then topped off with pre-boiled water, cling wrapped and frozen.

My current plan is to prechill my fermentation chamber and fermenter to 50 degrees and have ready a few ice cups. I will chill the wort to 90, transfer to the fermenter then add ice cups to get to pitching temp.

 

[Singletrack]

I used to use the pre-boiled dixie cup idea, except I used plastic mcdonalds cups. It worked, but preparing the sanitary ice was a pita, so I now pump ice water through my ic.

A key improvement was my ice bucket melter, but that is a story for another day.

I also use a ridiculous stirrer during the big chill, but it is not ready for prime time yet -- if ever.

 

[FatDragon]

As an alternative to the dixie cups that may be a bit easier, get some cheap supermarket-brand bottled water. If you trust the water as-is, freeze them directly, then dip the bottle in sanitizing solution and cut it open with a sanitized knife or scissors to toss into the wort. If you don't trust it, dump it in your kettle, boil it, then pour back into the bottles and do the same thing.

It comes out about the same as the dixie cup idea, but it works better in a crowded freezer. I know in Arizona you can get 24-packs of half-liter bottles from local supermarkets for $2-3, so it's not a big expense. If your cheapest option is $8 for a flat of Dasani or something it's a bit harder to swallow.

 

[Photopilot]

I used to use the pre-boiled dixie cup idea, except I used plastic mcdonalds cups. It worked, but preparing the sanitary ice was a pita, so I now pump ice water through my ic.

A key improvement was my ice bucket melter, but that is a story for another day.

Hey Singletrack,
I am brewing tomorrow so if you got a secret weapon now is the time for that story.

Do you have an outside bar at your house? I was in Big Bear this summer with my wife and we were driving the back roads looking at houses and came across an outside bar with more taps than I have, and that is saying something.

 

[char005]

One thing that I do in the summer when ground water temps are high is to use a pond pump submerged in a rubbermaid container full of ice water. I will chill with ground water from the tap to get the initial heat off the wort and then hook up the pond pump submerged in the ice water and have the recirculated water flow back into the rubbermaid. So long as your immersion chiller is large enough it works like a charm. Ten gallon batches to pitching under 15 minutes. Wastes less water as well. Submergible pond pumps are super cheap, too.

 

[Singletrack]

Hey Singletrack,
I am brewing tomorrow so if you got a secret weapon now is the time for that story.

Do you have an outside bar at your house? I was in Big Bear this summer with my wife and we were driving the back roads looking at houses and came across an outside bar with more taps than I have, and that is saying something.

Yeah, well, "key improvement" may have been misleading. When it is unveiled, I am sure you will be glad you didn't wait to hear about it before brewing. And yet, you will be enthralled by the captivating majesty of the ice bucket melter. Look for the build thread sometime later this year.

Meanwhile, char005 provides a great solution in the post above. Frequent stirring speeds the process and saves water. (But I hate the mindless manual stirring, and I don't want to pump for recirculation stirring.)

That was not my home with the ostentatious outdoor bar. I am but a humble bottler.

 

[jlangfo5]

I bought a 20 gallon plastic tub off of amazon, and what I do sometimes is just fill the bottom full of ice, place my kettle on top of the ice, and fill the walls between the kettle and the tub with the rest of the ice, and stir the kettle and ice as needed to chill it. After it reaches a manageable temperature, I put it in my fermentation chamber till it hits target.

 

[Photopilot]

That was not my home with the ostentatious outdoor bar. I am but a humble bottler.

I was looking for the place I saw on Google maps. It was pretty spectacular setup. Looked like an average home but had a nice little yard with maybe a tiki bar and I would guess in the neighborhood of 10 or more taps, visible to the outside. Not even sure they were home brews but, still 10 beers on tap was impressive.

 

[Photopilot]

I bought a 20 gallon plastic tub off of amazon, and what I do sometimes is just fill the bottom full of ice, place my kettle on top of the ice, and fill the walls between the kettle and the tub with the rest of the ice, and stir the kettle and ice as needed to chill it. After it reaches a manageable temperature, I put it in my fermentation chamber till it hits target.

Not really an option with an electric keggle and a conical fermenter.

I have come up with an ingenious plan though. I will post pictures when I have tried out my experiment.

 

[blizz81]

My current chiller has a pre-chiller then splits into two lines which feeds two separate chillers intertwined. I have used every combination of prechill and cycled ice water.

Even the aforementioned "use a submersible pump to recirculate ice water through the chiller" suggestion? Because unless your chiller is severely undersized for your equipment, this is generally very effective at the expense / hassle of buying / making ice, which it seems you're open to.

 

[Photopilot]

Even the aforementioned "use a submersible pump to recirculate ice water through the chiller" suggestion? Because unless your chiller is severely undersized for your equipment, this is generally very effective at the expense / hassle of buying / making ice, which it seems you're open to.

I have tried ice with a prechiller and ice with a pump. This thread has given me ample opportunity to think about my chilling process. I think my big weakness is the infeed and out feed to my chiller too skinny and too long of a run therefore not enough flow. I am going to switch out the feed tube to the chiller to a garden hose and see what happens.

I hate having to go buy ice and don't have enough capacity to make it in house. All but one of my freezers in the house have been converted to brewing purposes. It does not help that my winter tap water is 71.9 F, just measured it.

 

[Singletrack]

I have come up with an ingenious plan though. I will post pictures when I have tried out my experiment.

Don't forget to share! (...and WE will be the judge of "ingenious.")

 

[Calder]

I hate having to go buy ice and don't have enough capacity to make it in house. All but one of my freezers in the house have been converted to brewing purposes. It does not help that my winter tap water is 71.9 F, just measured it.

I feel really sorry for you ...... IT'S FRIGGIN FREEZING HERE!

 

[Photopilot]

Don't forget to share! (...and WE will be the judge of "ingenious.")

So my ingenious plan was to add make "wort cubes" to add to the fermenter for the final chill down. I need to make a second batch of starter to step up my yeast count anyways.

The plan was to make a DME based wort of 1.060. Cool it and then add it to sanitized cups freeze it and then add it to the wort at the time of transfer. Then read some frozen wort threads. Turns out my ingenious plan was really a killer one. Unchilled wort can lead to botulism.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/bad-idea-take-wort-brewing-using-starter-480899/

Not that it happens often but botulism is a potential in wort. So after doing some reading, my new plan was to make the starter in a pressure cooker with the lid off then put the pressure cooker lid on, to sanitize the wort, freeze it then use it as planned without risk of death.

I am willing to put some extra steps in the days leading up to brew days to simplify the actual brew day, but realized i was going to stupid efforts to speed up my cooling process. Instead I am going to increase the inflow of water into my chiller, then grab some ice to pump it through the chiller, seeing what high speed flows can do.

If I can make room in a freezer between now and brewing on Monday, I will create some extra wort to pressure cook and freeze for future starters.

 

[Photopilot]

I feel really sorry for you ...... IT'S FRIGGIN FREEZING HERE!

We have a mild spell this week. I might have to wear pants while sailing today.

 

[Photopilot]

I was working to upgrade my cooling system and think i found the source of my problem: Flow through. My cooling system started at the nozzle for my washing machine then went through the cheezy white plastic garden hose to hose barb attachment. Then went through maybe 12 feet of 3/8" hose then 25' of copper prechiller before being split into two for the dual chillers, which after almost 20 year of use may not be as unkinked as they once were.

My new setup will be right from the nozzle to garden hose to then split to two chillers. When the temp is below 100 I will pump ice. through. I found an ice factory 3.3 miles from my house. Pics to follow, provided the system is successful.