Samuel Smiths Organic Chocolate stout clone request

[McKnuckle]

These fermentables produced a very mellow stout with a sweet backbone and a bit of tang. If you drink Sam Smith critically, you'll notice it has barely any roast character at all.

The beer I brewed is appropriately dark, but not black; in the light it shows a deep ruby color. It could be that a touch of proper UK chocolate malt (not pale choc.) or even roasted barley might be advised. Of course I'm going to tweak this a little and experiment. I think the dark crystal, brown malt, and treacle (or invert #3, or a combo) are keepers in the recipe.

Also, as noted, I'm going to re-brew with Wyeast 1469, which at least comes from Yorkshire. I have that going with a couple of other British recipes now, playing with the temp schedule. Once settled on temps I'll apply that to the stout. Safale S-04 is probably a little too clean with this beer, as the classic Sam Smith diacetyl and je ne sais quoi are missing.

Even if you ignore the chocolate addition, it's a very nice beer!

 

[thunderaxe]

the problem with using chocolate syrups is that they almost always contain preservatives and other unwholesome ingredients.
this is the only exception i've been able to find, but it doesn't seem to be available anywhere near me:

https://www.hersheys.com/en_us/products/hersheys-simply-5-syrup-21.8-ounce-bottle.html

 

[McKnuckle]

I don't think it matters very much. By the time you are putting this into the keg, you are already at final gravity. You don't need to rely on it for priming, and in fact, doing so is experimental at best. I would use sugar. Or just force carbonate and not worry.

I've played with multiple types of chocolate and syrup is literally the only taste that's come close to Sam's. If you think about producing a beer like this at scale, it makes total sense that they would add a syrup adjunct and not something esoteric like cacao nibs.

 

[thunderaxe]

sure, their website says they use an organic chocolate extract, i just figured it's more likely something like this:
https://cholaca.com/than an off-the-shelf syrup made for pouring into milk

 

[deuc224]

Or you guys can back sweet it organically. Im looking to back sweeten a stout this weekend i just know with what.

 

[McKnuckle]

I don't think the commercial purpose of the product really matters, just the composition. We want cocoa in the beer. Beans or nibs are solid. Powder does not absorb. Bars have fat and can't be added late. I have tried extract and it was very underwhelming. I bought some and also made some.

Cholaca looks interesting, for sure. It's probably not too different from a boutique syrup, mostly just lacking the sugar - you know?

Chocolate syrup can be made with cocoa powder, sugar, and water. Most recipes add a pinch of salt and/or vanilla. Sounds great. It easily mixes into hot liquid, and has the right flavor. Easy to buy or make at home.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Water:
Ca 85, Mg 0, Na 65, Cl 111, SO4 52

I know it wasn't intended as such, but that's not a very British water profile, and certainly not a Tadcaster profile. The "Burton of the North" is famous for drawing well water from what used to be known as the Upper and Lower Magnesian Limestone (now the Brotherton and Cadeby Formations) which are capped with gypsum and as the name suggests are dolomitic. So the well water could easily be 50ppm Mg, >150ppm Ca, >400+++ ppm SO4 - I've heard of wells going up to 2000ppm SO4 away from Tadcaster.

I don't know what they do in terms of treatment of water or blending with surface water - I can confirm that there's no shortage of rain in Yorkshire!

 

[McKnuckle]

I appreciate those details, but I have never had the guts to stray higher than 200 ppm SO4 in my brewing experiments to date. It just scares me. And 50 ppm Mg! Yikes.

Most importantly, the water profile I used yielded an appropriate mash pH of 5.42. It has a soft and smooth mouthfeel, which is what I was hoping for. I guess that's partly due to the chloride.

One of these days I will try brewing a small batch with a more extreme Yorkshire/Burton water profile, probably on a bitter, though. At least there are no dark roasted malts to contend with, lowering the pH beyond what is manageable with baking soda.

Have you tried brewing with the type of profile you mention, @Northern_Brewer ?

 

[ShepFL]

What about this as a starting point?

Ingredients:​

• 8 lbs Maris Otter Pale Malt
• 1 lb Chocolate Malt
• 1 lb Munich Malt
• 0.5 lb Flaked Barley
• 0.5 lb Crystal Malt (60L)
• 0.5 lb Black Patent Malt
• 0.5 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt (120L)
• 1 oz East Kent Goldings Hops (60 minutes)
• 1 oz Fuggle Hops (15 minutes)
• 1 Whirlfloc Tablet (15 minutes)
• 4 oz Cocoa Nibs (in secondary fermentation)
• 1 package of English Ale Yeast (e.g., Wyeast 1968 or Safale S-04)
• 6 oz Woodruff extract