Samuel Smiths Organic Chocolate stout clone request

[Nebbs]

Hi everyone,

I recently tried Samuel Smiths Organic Chocolate stout and fell in love with the sweet chocolatey taste. I was wondering if anyone has a close clone or a good recipe for a sweet chocolate tasting stout like this I could try out. I havent had much luck with finding a "sweet chocolate stout" and am maybe considering lactose since its not fermentable. The recipe/ideas could be for either a extract or all grain but preferably all grain. I cant keg so anything requiring stopped fermentation wouldnt work. I would like to stay away from the artificial flavorings too if possible but am open to trying them if necessary.


Thanks in advance

 

[Pie_Man]

Yeah, Sam Smith makes a nice chocolate stout. It'll probably be difficult to clone exactly, I don't think their yeast is sold commercially and their website doesn't disclose the type of chocolate used. The bottle states they use roasted chocolate malt and organic cocoa (http://www.samuelsmithsbrewery.co.uk/organicchocolatestout.html). I haven't read that they use lactose, but that's up to you. This site states "roasted barley flavor" (http://www.merchantduvin.com/brew-samuel-smith-organic-choc-stout.php), I'm not sure if that roasted barley flavor comes from the roasted chocolate malt alone, or if roasted barley is used as well.

I've not used actual cocoa in my beers thus far, I'd recommend researching the proper ways to use this ingredient in your beer.

 

[Nebbs]

Thanks. Anyone have any other ideas?

 

[dave_0613]

*bump* I'm attempting a clone this weekend. I'll report back in a few weeks.

 

[jpjr]

So... it's been a few weeks?

How did it turn out..

 

[Nebbs]

Yes! Very curious!

 

[meck1842]

I know you said you would prefer all grain, but this is an extract version I got from my LHBS who said they got it from BYO as a clone... I haven't had Samuel Smith's Oatmeal Stout but this recipe makes an outstanding stout... Maybe someone with some better recipe understanding can comment on it as a "clone"...

6 lbs light LME
12 oz. Flaked Oats
8 oz English Medium Crystal
4 oz English Roast
8 oz English chocolate

1.5 oz East Kent goldings (60 minutes)

bake oats at 325 for 75 minutes, stirring every 15 minutes

 

[dave_0613]

Well, I had it on cocoa nibs for a couple weeks. It just imparted a dry roasted cocoa flavor. Just added a can of chocolate syrup hoping for a better result. At this point it's..uh..yeasty. But I'll definitely let ya'll know when it's done fermenting the syrup. lol.

 

[dannylerch]

Still no luck finding a recipe for this. This beer is by far my favorite chocolate stout. I've yet to find a store bought beer nor have made one as good as theirs. If anyone has any idea how they get the flavors they do, please get back to me.

 

[dave_0613]

I just bottled. My attempt wasn't even close. lol.

 

[dannylerch]

They might double the lactose and I think they use very dark chocolate.

 

[jpjr]

I just bottled last week. It tasted pretty darn good. Very very little coffee flavor, fairly big chocolate flavor. Smooooth.

I bought some more Sam Smiths, and will probably pop one of my stouts this weekend (I know, it'll be WAY too early for carbonation, but I suck at patience) and compare it to see how close I came. If it's even close, I'll provide an update.

 

[Nebbs]

Something I found from Samuel Smiths Beer Reference Chart from merchantduvin says they use cocoa. Their site says Theobroma cacao is used of course in addition to the chocoloate malt and roasted barley.

As soon as I can give this an attempt, I will let you guys know how it turns out.

jpjr, what was your recipe you used?

 

[dannylerch]

Something I found from Samuel Smiths Beer Reference Chart from merchantduvin says they use cocoa. Their site says Theobroma cacao is used of course in addition to the chocoloate malt and roasted barley.

As soon as I can give this an attempt, I will let you guys know how it turns out.

jpjr, what was your recipe you used?

Theobroma cacao might just be the secret ingredient.

 

[jpjr]

.25 American Crystal 80
.75 Crisp Pale Chocolate Malt

3 gallons publix spring water
Add all grain to sock, and put in water, start the heat.
Actual - cold water to 155 in 25 minutes, removed sock.

Remove pot from heat
add 6.6lbs Briess Traditional Dark
add 1lb lactose
bring back to boil
start 60 min timer
@60 mins, add 1oz cluster 8.1% hops
@30 mins, add 1oz cluster 7.6% hops

Cool mixture with 2 gallons semi frozen water

chill to 72 degrees
Transfer to carboy, aerating, filtering.
Direct pitch of WYEAST 1332 Northwest Ale

Fermented @ 70 for 2 weeks
Transfer to secondary, Added 3.5oz Cocao Nibs that had soaked in a few oz of Maker's Mark for 3 days (and the bourbon!)
Secondary for 2 more weeks.

2/3 cup priming sugar in 16 oz water, boil, cool, add to bottling bucket

OG 1.056 @ 72F
FG 1.027 @70F

Final gravity seemed a bit high, oh well? I'm a noob, I got no idea what i'm doing. This is my 5th beer brew, and it is by far the best tasting one yet. After only being in the bottle for a week, if you pour it out heavy, has a great head/lacing. Tastes delicious, 4/5 I'd give it.

It is NOT, however, a Sam Smiths'. Needs more chocolate, maybe the Theobroma is what is needed? Also my beer seems a little lacking in some mouthfeel? Maybe some toasted oats would give it more 'oomph'? Anyways... beer is drinkable using above recipe, would make it again for sure. Might try adding a spot of vanilla, and some more chocolate (cocoa powder?).

 

[plumber_bob]

Subscribed

pb

 

[Pratzie]

So a few months later, how'd everyone's batches turn out? I know its a dead thread but im curious as hell about cloning this. Had a bottle this weekend and absolutely loved it.

 

[ShepFL]

bump - anyone got something close? Looking for one to make for Halloween.

 

[truekey]

I'd totally make this for Christmas. I know there's a brewing tv episode where they use unsweetened baking chocolate in the mash and boil. I'm sure it's not too difficult to do. Microwaved the bakers chocolate.

 

[Nebbs]

Well I have ended up making a basic wheat beer with 1 lb of chocolate malt and 4 oz of lactose. I ended up putting 4 lbs of rasberries in it also. I know it's off from this beer but tried making it based off of the Samuel Smith's Chocolate Stout. I didn't try it without raspberries but wish I did. It smelled like chocolate banana cake while it fermented!

I could definitely taste the chocolate, but it needed more chocolate flavor. I made this twice and loved it both times. I had it in a beer festival and was asked if it can be bought in stores it was so good! Anyways, when I make it again, I plan to add at least a half lb of cocoa nibs to the secondary for a week. It needs more of a rich chocolate taste so that's the closest thing I can think of that will give it that flavor. More chocolate malt will probably help too.

When I make that again I'll keep a gallon without the rasberries and let you all know how it comes out.

 

[mdreyer93]

fwiw, Sam Smith's Organic Chocolate Stout is vegan so they're not using lactose. Maybe more crystal malts, higher mash temps, maltodextrine, honey malt, etc.? Not sure, but I'd be interested in finding out as I'm also vegan and this beer is delicious!

 

[rodocker]

...?

 

[mdreyer93]

no honey is used in the production of honey malt. it's made by restricting the flow of oxygen to the malt during sprouting

 

[Roadie]

Still no AG clone recipe for this?? I want to brew this!

 

[rocketsan]

bumpity for wondering if anyone has come close to this...it's so bloody good...

 

[Roadie]

Racked my recipe onto nibs tonight. Will be a good beer but right now it seems as if it's not sweet enough an not enough chocolate. Hoping the nibs add a more chocolate element.

 

[rocketsan]

Tried nibs too... It's something else that gives it that chocolatey finish.

My guess is it is something fruit based in origin to fake us into thinking chocolate.

 

[eastoak]

i love this beer too but i have to wonder if it's pasteurized and back sweetened along with the chocolate. not that it matters to me, i like it anyway. there are sour beer producers that do this with various fruit beers so it's not unheard of.

 

[MrCrabby]

I spoke with the regional Samuel Smith rep at a beer festival this weekend. He told me all he knew about the chocolate stout, but even that wasn't very much. He did know that they use four different organic chocolate suppliers (not sure if that was for different types of chocolate, or just because they use so much).
I wouldn't expect to find any sort of recipe leaked anywhere, though. The rep told me a story about when he asked one of the SS brewers how much oatmeal goes into the oatmeal stout. The brewer told him that it was 'very impolite' to ask, and refused to answer any more of his questions.

I'm also looking to see if anyone has a recipe that even comes close. All I know from my brewing experience is that you can't achieve the same flavor with cocoa nibs.

 

[Roadie]

We kegged our triple chocolate stout a few days ago and while it's still getting carbed it's more of a bittersweet chocolate taste as opposed to the super sweet chocolate from SS even using a decent amount of lactose. So our first try at coming up with something similar produced a good beer but it didn't resemble SS.

 

[MrBaloo]

Evening all.... Bumping this one back up to get feedback on everyone's progress...

My 1st beer back and this was the one I chose.... Local homebrew wizard put my grain bill together.... Will post it if it is good.

baloo

 

[Hello]

Evening all.... Bumping this one back up to get feedback on everyone's progress...

My 1st beer back and this was the one I chose.... Local homebrew wizard put my grain bill together.... Will post it if it is good.

baloo

Have you tasted your attempt yet?

 

[MrBaloo]

Nope 2nd week in primary... hoping to keg it next week and dry hop with cocoa nibs and a little vanilla

 

[Nebbs]

Planning to make a chocolate stout this weekend, however it will be a higher gravity beer. My last attempt at this was pretty good. I put 4 oz of bakers 70% chocolate in the boil in addition to the chocolate malt. It had a lot of chocolate flavor and was delicious. Needed more chocolate in my opinion so will up it to 6 oz of chocolate. Head retention was perfect by the way. It was a bit oily tasting but it didn't bother me. Certainly nothing that would turn you away from it.

Will post the recipe on Sunday

 

[Mike_kever_kombi]

Just found this thread, but have been trying to clone this one for a while. This is my latest version. It had a lil more chocolate flavor than I was aiming for, I would cut back the cocoa, next time. While not an exact clone, perhaps it can serve as a spring board to get it even closer with some others input.

**Add 1# lactose, and 8 oz Hershey unsweetened cocoa powder with 10 minutes left in boil. Use higher carbonate water to mash. Mash @ 151 for 60. Step to 162 for 20

10 oz flaked barley
8 oz flaked oats
7 lb pale ale malt
1 lb chocolate malt
1 lb lactose
3/4 lb crystal 60
3/4 lb munich 20
1/2 lb roasted barley
8 oz Hershey Unsweetened cocoa powder

.4 oz chinook @ 60 -16 IBU
1 oz fuggle @ 10 -6 IBU

WLP002 english Ale

 

[Olive Drab]

Just found this thread, but have been trying to clone this one for a while. This is my latest version. It had a lil more chocolate flavor than I was aiming for, I would cut back the cocoa, next time. While not an exact clone, perhaps it can serve as a spring board to get it even closer with some others input.

**Add 1# lactose, and 8 oz Hershey unsweetened cocoa powder with 10 minutes left in boil. Use higher carbonate water to mash. Mash @ 151 for 60. Step to 162 for 20

10 oz flaked barley
8 oz flaked oats
7 lb pale ale malt
1 lb chocolate malt
1 lb lactose
3/4 lb crystal 60
3/4 lb munich 20
1/2 lb roasted barley
8 oz Hershey Unsweetened cocoa powder

.4 oz chinook @ 60 -16 IBU
1 oz fuggle @ 10 -6 IBU

WLP002 english Ale

was the chocolate flavor sweet or bitter chocolate?

 

[Mike_kever_kombi]

Overly sweet, to the point of being almost fake chocolate taste. Next time around I will cut chocolate in 1/2, but I have a feeling that 1# lactose is too much also, but I want to systematically cut so I will brew with 1/2 chocolate powder, and then adjust from there.

 

[wmilas]

I haven't tried to brew this beer, but I've drank it a bunch because when I first ran across it, it really intrigued me.

Its my personal opinion that its really two "beers in one". If you drink it and really think about it, there is a sweet chocolate stout taste, whth almost an overly powerful "chemically" chocolate taste that comes after.. almost when you'd expect the finish. It continues then finishes.

I'm not a fan of the beer but I drank 12 of them over a month or so to try and figure out what was going on with it.

Its my opinion that a chocolate syrup of some kind is added when its bottled. I really think its two drinks married into one. Its a chocolate stout that finishes into the syrup. Its just too sweet. Since its vegan organic you can't get there with lactose. The sweet chocolate has to be added after fermentation is over.

My two cents anyways.

 

[waverz]

Tried one of these over the weekend. It was my first sweet stout and thought it was delicious! I'd love to find a recipe for it.

 

[Nebbs]

So, here was my 2nd attempt at this stout and the recipe I made for it:

10 lbs - 2 Row
1 lb - Caramel 60
.5 lbs - Caramel 120
1 lb - Chocolate Malt
.5 lbs - Flaked Oats

.75 oz - Cascade hops - 60 min
.25 oz - Cascade hops - 10 min
4 oz - bakers chocolate, 70% - 10 min

90 minute mash at 152F follow by sparge. Sparged to a total of 5.5 gallons.

Safale US-05 Ale Yeast

OG: 1.071 est at 75% ME
FG: 1.025 first attempt (4 oz of bakers chocolate in boil). 2nd attempt: 1.030 (with 8 oz of bakers chocolate in boil)

Haven't tried the 2nd batch yet but the first one, I remember saying it seemed like it needed more chocolate and was damn delicious. It was close to the Samuel Smith Chocolate Stout, but needs tweeking. I think the caramel malts really helped the chocolate flavor come through. So, definitely keep caramel malts in it, I'm happy with the amounts of caramel malt so won't touch that. I think that it may need a tad of roasted barley which I didnt have either time so left it out. Maybe a quarter pound to get a true stout flavor, but not much more than that with the pound of chocolate malt.

I think the baker's chocolate had way too much unfermentable sugars in it to allow it to get to a normal FG range, hence my 2nd attempt with more chocolate resulted in a higher FG. I think for the 3rd attempt I will just put the chocolate into the secondary for 2 weeks, unboiled.

I put amylase enzyme in both when they moved to the secondary to see if it helped with bringing the gravity down and it didn't. So I think that its the bakers chocolate for that reason thats keeping the gravity high.

If anyone brews my recipe and puts the chocolate in the 2ndary, let me know how it turns out!

Cheers!

Also, on these attempts, I did not add lactose like I did to my chocolate stout I talked about earlier in the thread that has fruit in it.