Same taste in my beers

[daveMN]

Thanks...that's clear as mud I know that it should seem so simple, but maybe I'll just have to visit one of you guys on a brew day to get the hang of it! I'm so meticulous in my processes, that I just can't make a jump until I'm ABSOLUTELY sure that I know what all of the steps are. I like the simplicity of extract, and know that if I ever change I won't go back, just scared; so to speak.

Come on up for a brew day. Alternatively, there are a lot of YouTube videos showing people going through an all-grain brew day. For me, I bought Palmer's How To Brew, took notes, and then re-read it a couple more times. To be honest, the first all-grain brew day was exhausting. But when it was done and in the fermenter, I reflected on the day and thought "That was awesome!"

 

[Rush]

How big is your brew pot?

When are you adding your extract during the boil?

Where are you sourcing your extract?

Are you using DME or LME?

Are you using light or dark extract?

How are you aerating your wort?

How are you controlling your fermentation temps?

I've stated recently in another similar thread that once I focused on paying attention to the above questions my extract brews improved tremendously. I used to have the same "twang/everything tastes the same" issue.

I'm not exactly sure what change made the largest difference, but I personally feel like moving to a full boil, adding 10-20% of extract at the beginning of the boil and the remaining extract at flame out, and controlling the fermentation temperature correctly made the largest differences.

 

[ChubbyChipmunk]

Well i had one more extract kit sitting around. I scaled it down to 3 gal so i could try a full boil. I used a starter. I meticulously sanitized everything. I added the LME at the end of the boil. It was light lme. Its bubbling away in my 62 degree basement. Hopefully this will be twang free

 

[urg8rb8]

Well i had one more extract kit sitting around. I scaled it down to 3 gal so i could try a full boil. I used a starter. I meticulously sanitized everything. I added the LME at the end of the boil. It was light lme. Its bubbling away in my 62 degree basement. Hopefully this will be twang free

Don't be surprised if you get the twang. That flavor comes from the lme.

 

[ncbrewer]

Well i had one more extract kit sitting around. I scaled it down to 3 gal so i could try a full boil. I used a starter. I meticulously sanitized everything. I added the LME at the end of the boil. It was light lme. Its bubbling away in my 62 degree basement. Hopefully this will be twang free

Was the LME all of the extract, or did you add DME at the beginning? I ask because I've read that if hops are boiled in just water, it gives an unpleasant flavor - harsh, I think.

 

[daveMN]

Don't be surprised if you get the twang. That flavor comes from the lme.

I think that's where I was getting "the twang" from. That, and I put all the extract in at the beginning of the boil.

 

[Nicknack]

I started a thread a couple of weeks ago that seems very similar. I'm on my third batch (extract) and have a flavor that is consistent with each beer. It is less noticeable with my double ipa. It is frustrating because while others like the beer, the flavor ruins it for me. It's not that bad but I don't want any flavor/taste like this. I've tried describing it as almost a slight spicy taste. Again, very hard to describe. In the thread I started, someone mentioned that they thought it was the extract twang people sometimes complain about. That doesn't seem to describe the taste/smell that I get but maybe other people's description of twang is what I have. I have a few extract kits to use and if this continues, I'm going to AG because this just isn't very enjoyable.

 

[urg8rb8]

I think that's where I was getting "the twang" from. That, and I put all the extract in at the beginning of the boil.

I tried putting the lme at the end of the boil and it didn't help.

Best way to get rid of the twang.... switch to all grain.

 

[Rush]

I tried putting the lme at the end of the boil and it didn't help.

Best way to get rid of the twang.... switch to all grain.

To be honest, I agree. I'm an ardent fan on extract + grains brewing. I personally can't justify half a day to brewing at this point so I have learned to perfect my extract process and get some, in my opinion, damn good beer as a result.

Because of this, I tend to defend extract brewing because I know what's possible and that extract brews shouldn't be "expected" to have twang or similar flavor profiles.

However, if someone is becoming disinterested in the hobby or consistently being disappointed in their brews because of "twang", then switch to all-grain! I guarantee you won't have the twang brewing all-grain, but you'll just have to work around new issues and a longer brew day.

 

[ChubbyChipmunk]

Don't be surprised if you get the twang. That flavor comes from the lme.

The recipe had mostly dme. I only pit about a quarter of the lme in. Hoping to have minimal twang

 

[FruityHops]

I finished my first batch nearly two weeks ago. Took a gravity reading a couple days ago and tasted tested it too. It isn't bad, but my wife and I both agree it has the "home brew" taste, which I'm assuming is extract "twang." We did a full boil with LME for all 60 minutes.

For next time I'm planning on using DME instead of LME and adding 1/4 at the start of the boil and 3/4 at the last 15 minutes. Hopefully that will help remove the "twang" but who knows. There seems to be conflicting information as to what causes it and how to resolve it.

 

[rcreamer0713]

I just made a 5gallon extract kit. Amber ale and no extract twang. I think if ur meticulious and follow the hints listed through out this thread ulyou will se a difference. Huge difference

 

[TheHopfather]

To be honest, I agree. I'm an ardent fan on extract + grains brewing. I personally can't justify half a day to brewing at this point so I have learned to perfect my extract process and get some, in my opinion, damn good beer as a result.

I brew all grain BIAB and I can brew a simple beer, start to finish including clean up, in 3 hours. Things take a little longer when you're doing hopstands and such but nothing crazy. I often brew after work and make it to bed on time.

 

[uglyamerican00]

Twang is not a taste you want...at least the twang I'm thinking about. Oxidation could be the twang you are talking about. Can you better describe this taste?

 

[TheMilkMan]

For me, getting rid of the twang was a factor of how i added the malt instead of when. When i premixed malt with a gallon of cold water, turned off heat source, mix in malt, the twang went away. If i added the malt straight to the kettle during boil I'd get twang 50% of the time.

 

[daveMN]

For me, getting rid of the twang was a factor of how i added the malt instead of when. When i premixed malt with a gallon of cold water, turned off heat source, mix in malt, the twang went away. If i added the malt straight to the kettle during boil I'd get twang 50% of the time.

That's an interesting idea. Did you add this mixture at the end of the boil? And were you using DME or LME?

 

[TheMilkMan]

Before boiling starts i mix all my extract in a bucket with cold water. 1/4 goes in before boil, with same method listed above. 3/4 goes in after flame out. I primarily use dme because i buy it in bulk, 50 lb bags.

 

[Nicknack]

Before boiling starts i mix all my extract in a bucket with cold water. 1/4 goes in before boil, with same method listed above. 3/4 goes in after flame out. I primarily use dme because i buy it in bulk, 50 lb bags.

How much water do you use when mixing it with the extract beforehand? How much water is in your pot?

This sounds very interesting. I'm going to brew this week and would like to try this to see if I can get rid of that darn twang!

 

[TheMilkMan]

How much water do you use when mixing it with the extract beforehand? How much water is in your pot?

This sounds very interesting. I'm going to brew this week and would like to try this to see if I can get rid of that darn twang!

I usually do steeping grains with 3.5 gallons. Remove steeping grains and sparge them with .5 gallon to get remaining unfermentables. I also squeeze the bag BIAB style to get everything out. I'll mix 2 gallons of cold water with malt in a sanitized bucket. After removing steeping grains, remove kettle from heat and sit it on the ground for a minute or two, then eyeball .5 gallon of malt/water into the kettle. This equates to a 4.5 gallon boil. Place kettle on heat, bring to boil and add bittering hops, continue till flameout. 1-2 minutes after flameout add the remaining 1.5 gallons malt/water and stir, technically you don't need to boil it. This should result in ~5.5-6 gallons of wort at the end, if not I just top off the kettle with cold water. Hope this helps!

This is what I do personally and may not work for everyone. The numbers don't matter that much as long as you end up with around 6 gallons at the end.

 

[Nicknack]

I usually do steeping grains with 3.5 gallons. Remove steeping grains and sparge them with .5 gallon to get remaining unfermentables. I also squeeze the bag BIAB style to get everything out. I'll mix 2 gallons of cold water with malt in a sanitized bucket. After removing steeping grains, remove kettle from heat and sit it on the ground for a minute or two, then eyeball .5 gallon of malt/water into the kettle. This equates to a 4.5 gallon boil. Place kettle on heat, bring to boil and add bittering hops, continue till flameout. 1-2 minutes after flameout add the remaining 1.5 gallons malt/water and stir, technically you don't need to boil it. This should result in ~5.5-6 gallons of wort at the end, if not I just top off the kettle with cold water. Hope this helps!

This is what I do personally and may not work for everyone. The numbers don't matter that much as long as you end up with around 6 gallons at the end.

Very interesting. I'll have to give this a shot because I've got to get rid of the twang and would rather not go AG, at least for now.

Out of curiosity, why do you add .5 of water/extract at the beginning rather than just adding it all after flame out?

 

[TheMilkMan]

Very interesting. I'll have to give this a shot because I've got to get rid of the twang and would rather not go AG, at least for now.

Out of curiosity, why do you add .5 of water/extract at the beginning rather than just adding it all after flame out?

You could definitely do that. I have heard/read that you get better hop utilization for bitterness if there is more sugar present. There is lots of discussion around this on google. So, I've always done that. Try boiling without malt and let me know how it is!

 

[bigdaddybrew]

I'm an all grain brewer. I'm in two homebrew clubs. A few years ago you could really pick out the extract homebrew usually because it was too sweet and tasted "funny". The last year or so the extract brewers have really improved their beers. They are clean, well attenuated and quite good. I frequently can't pick out the extract based beers. In fact the worst beers I've drank lately have been all grain. A well brewed beer made from fresh extract is a lot like a boxed cake. A well baked boxed cake can be really good but the best cakes are baked from scratch. However it's much harder to bake a cake from scratch so if your not committed...just make the best Duncan Hines boxed cake you can.

 

[Citizen86]

My first.... 4 batches were DME, one LME. I think they all turned out pretty decent, although the Arrogant Bastard clone did have a bit of a sweet flavor to it, but I might attribute that to being a ~1.070 OG beer and I just used a smack pack without a starter

It's been mentioned a bit, but from the video watching I did on Youtube of extract brewers, it's important to turn off the heat when adding any extract. Late addition extract is also a good idea since it can darken. It's already been boiled and turned into extract anyways, so it doesn't need a full hour boil.

My suggestion is take some time and watch a few brew days on Youtube. Here's a few channels with plenty of videos to choose from:
https://www.youtube.com/user/terpsichoreankid/videos
https://www.youtube.com/user/CraigTube/videos
https://www.youtube.com/user/lotsofhead/videos
https://www.youtube.com/user/donosborn/videos
https://www.youtube.com/user/basicbrewing/videos

A lot do all grain but there are quiet a few extract brews in there as well.

 

[Nicknack]

I have four batches of brew under my belt (all extract). After the first beer, I noticed something that just didn't taste quite right. I was really disappointed with my second brew to find it present again. My third had it as well but not as pronounced, probably because it had higher alcohol content (a double IPA versus a pale ale). When someone told me that they thought what I was talking about was twang, I dismissed it as it didn't really seem like a twang to me.

When I got home the other night, I opened another beer and it hit me, as I really reflected on what I was tasting it became very clear that it was the infamous twang after all. I could tell that it was in fact coming from the extract.

My last brew, a peanut butter cup stout, didn't have any twang which is the only one that I've brewed that didn't have it. I think it's probably still there but hidden by the qualities of the stout (especially the peanut butter and chocolate flavors).

I've got to get rid of this twang! It's keeping me from enjoying my favorite beers... IPA's! I'll experiment with how and when I add the extract. I'm hoping I can find something that will work as I would rather not go the AG route (at least for now) because of the time investment that it demands.


Question: What about adding the extract when just starting the boil (room temperature) to prevent it from burning?

 

[Rush]

I have four batches of brew under my belt (all extract). After the first beer, I noticed something that just didn't taste quite right. I was really disappointed with my second brew to find it present again. My third had it as well but not as pronounced, probably because it had higher alcohol content (a double IPA versus a pale ale). When someone told me that they thought what I was talking about was twang, I dismissed it as it didn't really seem like a twang to me.

When I got home the other night, I opened another beer and it hit me, as I really reflected on what I was tasting it became very clear that it was the infamous twang after all. I could tell that it was in fact coming from the extract.

My last brew, a peanut butter cup stout, didn't have any twang which is the only one that I've brewed that didn't have it. I think it's probably still there but hidden by the qualities of the stout (especially the peanut butter and chocolate flavors).

I've got to get rid of this twang! It's keeping me from enjoying my favorite beers... IPA's! I'll experiment with how and when I add the extract. I'm hoping I can find something that will work as I would rather not go the AG route (at least for now) because of the time investment that it demands.


Question: What about adding the extract when just starting the boil (room temperature) to prevent it from burning?

Boiling the extract for any length of time will darken and caramelize the sugars in the wort(mailliard reaction). The longer and harder the boil, the more the maillard reaction effects the extract wort.

The biggest three things I attribute to GREAT extract beers is adding 80-90% of the recipe's extract(make sure it's FRESH) at flame-out to eliminate most of the mailliard reaction, use enough yeast (high quality dry or liquid with a starter) in a well aerated wort, and fermentation temperature control.

 

[Citizen86]

Question: What about adding the extract when just starting the boil (room temperature) to prevent it from burning?

I know I mentioned burning the extract in my last post, but that's not the twang. Burning would cause, well, a burnt flavor. Also referred to as scorching the extract.

The idea of adding the extract late is what Rush said basically. Remember that with AG you are converting sugars from starches in grains. By using extract, that's already been done. Boiling it for longer isn't really required.

I don't know if you mentioned where you get your ingredients, but age of the extract can also have a big impact I've been told. And apparently liquid extract is much more susceptible to the twang than dry. Perhaps I'm fortunate that 3 of my 4 batches were 100% DME with grains for steeping, so I didn't really notice any twang.

If you can, try using DME instead of LME and see if you can make sure it's fresh.

 

[mkirkland]

Most of the things i have changed were because inwas trying to fix the "taste".
Thought it was my water...switched to bottled
Thought it was my sanitizer...switched to starsan
Thought maybe secondary was too big...got a 5 gal carboy
The taste has appeared with liquid and dry yeasts, nottingham, us-05, white labs australian ale, etc.
I will says that since kegging, i have made 3 batches where the taste is there but barely. But my latest batch has the taste and its strong.
In bottled batches, could barely taste it when young but it became more noticable as it aged.

Wonder if you are oxidizing your beer between primary/secondary transfers or during bottling when added priming sugar. I remember i also use to have the "certain" taste that was in ALL my beers. Things ive changed since then are i ALWAYS flush everything with CO2 when moving any amount of beer around. Also i moved to a temp controlled fermentation freezer setup.

 

[Nicknack]

I know I mentioned burning the extract in my last post, but that's not the twang. Burning would cause, well, a burnt flavor. Also referred to as scorching the extract.

If it's just a burnt flavor that you get then why do most people seem to say that adding the extract near (or at) the end of the boil is probably the best way to avoid the twang? This isn't meant as a challenge to what you are saying but just curious as I am trying to get this all figured out.

I get my extract from NB so I doubt that is it. As for using LME, I don't have much of a choice for now because I've been using kits due to the fact that I'm new at this.

 

[Nicknack]

Wonder if you are oxidizing your beer between primary/secondary transfers or during bottling when added priming sugar. I remember i also use to have the "certain" taste that was in ALL my beers. Things ive changed since then are i ALWAYS flush everything with CO2 when moving any amount of beer around. Also i moved to a temp controlled fermentation freezer setup.

Yes, I do this before pitching the yeast by rocking the wort back and forth vigorously. However, maybe I should do it longer than what I currently do.

As for oxidizing the beer before bottling... I was under the impression that you weren't suppose to do that. Once I have the beer in my bottling bucket, I try not to move the brew around much.

I have a chest freezer so the temperature is controlled throughout fermentation between 64-67 degrees.

 

[Citizen86]

If it's just a burnt flavor that you get then why do most people seem to say that adding the extract near (or at) the end of the boil is probably the best way to avoid the twang? This isn't meant as a challenge to what you are saying but just curious as I am trying to get this all figured out.

I get my extract from NB so I doubt that is it. As for using LME, I don't have much of a choice for now because I've been using kits due to the fact that I'm new at this.

Extract twang and scorching are two separate issues. I suppose I might not be an expert in either, I'm also relatively new like you, I've just been doing a crapload of reading and watching Youtube vids since I started

You turn off the burner when you add the extract to avoid scorching it, causing a burnt flavor.

To combat extract twang, you add a little extract at the beginning of the boil (to be fair, my first IPA kit said 50% and I followed the instructions), and 50% or the rest at or near the end of the boil.

Since you're ordering from NB, you would think the extract you're getting is pretty fresh. So hopefully we can rule out old extract.

I'd say the next thing to try to consider is yeast pitching rate. Do you use dry or liquid yeast? For bigger beers, you either need to be pitching more or making a starter. With dry yeast you could probably do 1.2-1.5 packets for a 1.070 type beer, but use one of the many yeast pitching calculators to figure that out. I know many people like using liquid yeast, but Safale US-05 is still really popular for a reason, and is apparently the same strain as the California Ale yeasts from the two liquid companies