Sam Adam's Season Pack ... ehhh

[scotched]

...once I got into brewing i left it behind but i took all those great bottles with me. the labels come off easily, they are thick walled, and Easy to come by in any market.

I don't like drinking it but I like using their bottles.

+1 Their labels are by far the easiest to remove. <5mins in oxyclean and they brush right off.

Try that with Dos Equis bottles!

 

[Runyanka]

The scotch ale is horrid. I can't decide if this is just not my style, or if this is a bad version of it.

 

[bgrayson726]

At Costco, you can get this variety pack for ~24 dollars. My girlfriend picked it up for me and I was so grateful. But, the beers were crap. The revolutionary rye got me very excited, but when I tasted it, it was pretty bland. In fact all of the beers I tasted from that case were bland. I would have rather her got the 28 pack for 20 dollars at Costco of the Boston Lager, but at the same time, i want to try every beer imaginable. It was a good experience... for experience. Other than that, it wasn't anything to write home about.

As far as your question, it seems like they are in the grey area of the big fish small fish thing. One could argue either way, and until they change their boston lager to a BMC rice and corn lager, I'd argue that they are the big of the small fish.

 

[bartbert]

I tried the Sam Adams Imperial Stout for the first time a couple of days ago. I thought it had a very rich flavor and feel with some nice chocolate notes. I'd give it at least 3.5 stars out of 5. I can't say that I'm a big fan of most of their other stuff, but I tend to favor the big bold brews from Stone and Dogfish Head.

 

[flairman]

After InBev bought AB, Sam Adams, BBC, became the largest domestically owned Brewery. In my book Sam Adams is no longer the biggest fish in a small pond, more like a medium fish in a big pond.

 

[matthewgardner]

I am a huge Sam Boston Lager fan, it's the beer that got me away from drinking Bud Light in college...that being said I bought that same pack a couple of weeks ago (I am waiting very patiently for MY beer to be ready) and I loved the Rye. I thought the Irish was eh and the Scotch Ale IMHO was awful. I still have one of them in the fridge...I didn't really care for the Noble Pils but the White was drinkable.

 

[Bogforce]

Sam Adam's is still in the small pond, my BMC drinking friends can hardly stomach most of their beer. That's how I judge it

 

[Rob_B]

I picked up the mixed pack with high hopes for the Rye and was let down, not a bad beer just not what I was looking for. The White Ale was by far the best out of the pack and I would buy a 6er if I could find one. The Scotch Ale was pretty nasty and I love a good smoked beer. The Irish Red was so so, the Noble Pils was okay but not as good as last years. And I always get disappointed when they throw in the Boston Lager in a variety pack, I know what it taste like and I want to try the other brews. Although the Boston Lager is not my favorite beer I will choose it any day over BMC. The reusable bottles are the main reason I bring home Sam Adams.

 

[ndsgr]

I've had a sixer of Oktoberfest sitting in the fridge for the last year. It's good now, but I didn't care for it fresh.

I liked Noble Pils at first, but realized I was just craving an IPA and it was leaving me wanting.

I'll drink the Boston Lager, but only if it's on tap and there is nothing else.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

My fiance used to be a huge fan of the winter pack. We got one this winter and she's not happy with the way any of them taste. They definitely have an off-flavor that makes it taste like it has gone bad.

I wanted to try this season's pack but I don't want to waste $15 on crap.

 

[wildwest450]

All you guys who can make "better" beer than Sam Adams are missing out. You could open your own brewery and start living the dream.

_

 

[gunhaver]

I'm as beer of a beer snob as you'll find, spending outrageous amounts of money on silly, overhyped nonsense beers just because I love finding new awesome things. But Sam Adams is pretty damn good. Boston Lager is an excellent beer, as is Noble Pils. I thought the Rye was really good and could easily see myself drinking a ton of them.

They're going to start doing a single-hop series of their Latitude beers, which is a pretty incredible thing for a brewery that big to do. They're nowhere even CLOSE to being like one of the BMC breweries.

 

[doctorRobert]

I dont like sam because they pretend to be innovative but they arent.

They need a new product line, that has double IPAs and stuff like that.

Also, they are the smallest of the big. Once you go public, and invest in mikes hard lemonad, you lost your craft brew status in my opinion. Now they have to focus on profit, not beer.

 

[TheMan]

Sam adams was actually not the gateway beer for me. I am just very adventurous with trying new things. When I moved to my current location and found a liquor store (Binnys) that has more beer than I could imagine I just had to start trying new ones. It was about this time I started brewing as well, so it worked out well.

I like the Boston Lager, but none of them really blow me away so I typically steer away from Sam Adams. I still don't understand all the hype on the Noble Pils...I thought that beer was just bland and blah.

 

[rycov]

the noble pils i found to be refreshing. very clean and hoppy but not too much. i thought it was very well balanced.
(i dont know anything about styles really, i just liked it for the beer it was)

 

[gunhaver]

I dont like sam because they pretend to be innovative but they arent.

This isn't true.

 

[Pilgarlic]

As most of you know, the ABA revised in January it's definition of "small" in its criteria for recognizing a brewer as a craft brewer. They did this largely to avoid having to disqualify Boston Beer (Sam Adams) as it was about to surpass 2 million barrels. Here's the board: Steve Bradt, Dick Cantwell, John Mallett, John Pinkerton, Gary Fish, Sam Calagione, Mark Edelson, Rob Tod, Eric Wallace, Chris Graham, Chris P. Frey, Nick Matt, Kim Jordan, Ken Grossman, Steve Hindy. A "heady" bunch of craft brewers, there. I'd call that a strongly implied vote of confidence for the brewery, its product and its contribution to the craft brewing industry.

 

[bgruis]

I am a big fan of Sam Adams!

First of all Jim Koch almost by him self re introduced this country to beer with flavor!

Now there introducing "non beer snobs" to the possiblity of all the sepcialty ales and lagers, on a mass scale...look at it this way...just the ads the run are educating the masses on what makes a good beer...and that there is more choice out there.

No, I don't like all there beers, but as a fan of the American Craft Brewing industry I think they have led the way in may aspects.

 

[scotched]

Once you go public, and invest in mikes hard lemonad, you lost your craft brew status in my opinion. Now they have to focus on profit, not beer.

I'm actually thankful for Mike's. What the hell would every non-beer drinking girl drink, while you're sipping your HB? Beer tends to not remove panties quite as fast either . It's our version of all the baby boomer's Peach Schnapps.

I'm kidding, but Hard Lemonade is one recipe I can't make enough of.

Boston Lager is definitely unique and refreshing enough for me NOT to jump on the bandwagon.

 

[doctorRobert]

I'm actually thankful for Mike's. What the hell would every non-beer drinking girl drink, while you're sipping your HB? Beer tends to not remove panties quite as fast either . It's our version of all the baby boomer's Peach Schnapps.

I'm kidding, but Hard Lemonade is one recipe I can't make enough of.

Boston Lager is definitely unique and refreshing enough for me NOT to jump on the bandwagon.

Nothing wrong with hard lemonade - but dont go on TV telling everyone how much you love to make craft beer while behind the scenes you make flavored malt beverages and contract out most of your beer production.

Things I dont think Sierra Nevada would ever do \ Reasons why Sams isnt a craft brewer:

Make hard lemonade
Go Public
Pasteurize beer
Contract your beer making

Can somebody honestly tell me you're a craft brewer when you make malt beverages, go public, pasteurize your beer and contract it out? I'm not saying you cant do any of those things, just that a quality craft brewer wouldnt do ALL those things.

I'm also not saying you can't like Sam Adams. I love octoberfest, winter ale, and boston lager. But they crossed the line and their one of the big boys. How can you say theyre not one of the big boys when theyre the largest american owned brewery?

 

[doctorRobert]

As most of you know, the ABA revised in January it's definition of "small" in its criteria for recognizing a brewer as a craft brewer. They did this largely to avoid having to disqualify Boston Beer (Sam Adams) as it was about to surpass 2 million barrels. Here's the board: Steve Bradt, Dick Cantwell, John Mallett, John Pinkerton, Gary Fish, Sam Calagione, Mark Edelson, Rob Tod, Eric Wallace, Chris Graham, Chris P. Frey, Nick Matt, Kim Jordan, Ken Grossman, Steve Hindy. A "heady" bunch of craft brewers, there. I'd call that a strongly implied vote of confidence for the brewery, its product and its contribution to the craft brewing industry.

At the same time, most those "heady" brewers, can see themselves passing those same thresholds, and don't want to piss off a company that paved the way for the rest of them, and see an allegiance with SAM against BMC.

But its hard to be a craft brewer when you dont own your own company. Just sayin'. 9 million common shares outstanding, Jim has about 387k.... just sayin. (although he HAS to own MOST of the preferred shares - couldnt find that data on edgar)
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/949870/000114036110035607/xslF345X03/doc1.xml

 

[Pilgarlic]

Some of them may want to surpass that mark. I do think it's certainly true that they wanted Boston Beer's volume to stay in their reported industry production and market share numbers. Ownership, though, seems an odd criterion. Any craft brewer could be sold to passive partners. Size may be relevant, but I'm not at all sure it is to me.

Mosher defines craft beer (and I'm paraphrasing from "Radical Brewing") "If a homebrewer (past or current) gets to decide what the beer tastes like, it's craft beer."

 

[doctorRobert]

Some of them may want to surpass that mark. I do think it's certainly true that they wanted Boston Beer's volume to stay in their reported industry production and market share numbers. Ownership, though, seems an odd criterion. Any craft brewer could be sold to passive partners. Size may be relevant, but I'm not at all sure it is to me.

Mosher defines craft beer (and I'm paraphrasing from "Radical Brewing") "If a homebrewer (past or current) gets to decide what the beer tastes like, it's craft beer."

I agree with mosher. And once you go public, the bottom line and profit margins wil effect every decison. Read sams annual report and ask yourself if jim sounds like a craft brewer. Jim may decide what the beer tastes like, but he has to keep in mind his board of directors and stock holders. This is very different than a partnership or passive investors.

 

[muse435]

So is this now an argument about if sam adams is good to drink or if they have "sold out" to make a **** load of money? If I could make a product, and make money I would. It all comes down to taste, IMO some is great, some is good, and some is crap. It might not be the best, and it might be a larger company but in the end all I care about is the flavor. Once it is out of the bottle and in my glass there is no label.

 

[Pilgarlic]

First: "But its hard to be a craft brewer when you dont own your own company." Then: "he has to keep in mind his board of directors and stock holders. This is very different than a partnership or passive investors." Sounds like we agree: "Ownership, though, seems an odd criterion." I'll not defend the criterion of ownership. You offered it. I offered the passive investor counterexample. But wait, you seem to be limiting your objection to corporate ownership. You say you agree with Mosher, and you grant that Jim (a former home brewer) decides how the beer taste (case closed?) but wait, you must not agree with Mosher, because you qualify that by saying Jim has to listen to his board and stockholders. So it seems you don't agree with Mosher after all. Presumably the "taint" that comes from board and shareholder input is from things like "will it sell" and "does it cost too much to produce", et cetera.... are you saying things like this don't enter into the decisions of a craft brewer who is in business to make a profit (and, really, if it weren't to make a profit, wouldn't he still be in the garage like us)?
Back to the 12'er: I like the Pils, the lager and the White. I don't care for the Rye (way too subdued) or the Scotch.

 

[rycov]

atleast if you guys are arguing (debating) your doing it calmly. i hate when i read a thread that people have ruined with nonsense. so many people just want to be right, and don't care that it makes them look like a jerk. so kudos to you guys for setting a good example

 

[doctorRobert]

My point is that they shouldnt be considered a craft brewery based on ownership and process. But that doesnt mean they cant make great beer. BMC makes great beer if you like light lagers.

 

[doctorRobert]

First: "But its hard to be a craft brewer when you dont own your own company." Then: "he has to keep in mind his board of directors and stock holders. This is very different than a partnership or passive investors." Sounds like we agree: "Ownership, though, seems an odd criterion." I'll not defend the criterion of ownership. You offered it. I offered the passive investor counterexample. But wait, you seem to be limiting your objection to corporate ownership. You say you agree with Mosher, and you grant that Jim (a former home brewer) decides how the beer taste (case closed?) but wait, you must not agree with Mosher, because you qualify that by saying Jim has to listen to his board and stockholders. So it seems you don't agree with Mosher after all. Presumably the "taint" that comes from board and shareholder input is from things like "will it sell" and "does it cost too much to produce", et cetera.... are you saying things like this don't enter into the decisions of a craft brewer who is in business to make a profit (and, really, if it weren't to make a profit, wouldn't he still be in the garage like us)?
Back to the 12'er: I like the Pils, the lager and the White. I don't care for the Rye (way too subdued) or the Scotch.

I agree with mosher. My point was it doesnt apply to koch because he cant truly decide on how to make his beer the same way a privately owned brewer would, he has additional considerations.

 

[Pilgarlic]

I'm sure you're right that Koch is subject to enormous pressures that don't apply to microbrewers. Given those pressures, his continuing ability to produce some very nice beers is to be applauded.

 

[doctorRobert]

I'm sure you're right that Koch is subject to enormous pressures that don't apply to microbrewers. Given those pressures, his continuing ability to produce some very nice beers is to be applauded.

I agree. I just think if they werent public maybe theyd have a double ipa or something, which wont have the profit margins because of hop prices.