Safety Meeting: Can I boil with propane in my cellar?

[Mainer28]

Boston is about 15 degrees and windy today. I find that my boils are more difficult to reach and maintain in cold weather. I would like to boil in my cellar. I do have a door which would remain open and that would provide decent ventilation.

This is fine right?

 

[longke]

Only if you don't plan on waking up afterwards.
http://www.cdc.gov/co/faqs.htm

 

[kanzimonson]

I remember reading (possibly in Papazian) that you don't even want to use propane near a basement because the gas is denser than air and will float downwards. Starting in a low lying area sounds more dangerous, unless your door is at the same level as the ground.

 

[the_bird]

Meh... I wouldn't. The propane burners we use are terribly inefficient, they can throw off a lot of CO gas and you won't know until it's too late. Almost as important, if anything were to happen and you were to have a fire, I guarantee you your homeowner's policy isn't going to cover you.

 

[Mainer28]

Hehe.

But officer, the door was open!!!

Thanks.

 

[funkswing]

I do it all the time in my basement (propane brewing, that is). I have a garage door that I open (only partially open when its cold outside). My burner is right next to the open garage door.

With ventilation there is no problem. Sure there may be carbon monoxide produced, but if you give the gas somewhere to go (i.e., an open door) its not going to collect in your basement.

If you are really scared about it you can setup a fan to move air away from the burner towards the door.

 

[BigTexun]

I do it all the time in my basement (propane brewing, that is). I have a garage door that I open (only partially open when its cold outside). My burner is right next to the open garage door.

With ventilation there is no problem. Sure there may be carbon monoxide produced, but if you give the gas somewhere to go (i.e., an open door) its not going to collect in your basement.

If you are really scared about it you can setup a fan to move air away from the burner towards the door.

I do this in my basement as well... however, a basement is a lot different than a cellar. In a cellar, you have to walk up steps to get to the door.

Personally, I wouldn't do it in a cellar.

 

[funkswing]

Ahh, semantics. Well if you are in a dungeon, then yes, I wouldn't do it in there either.

But its not a big deal if you have some sort of ground-level (i.e. burner level) ventilation such as a door.

 

[BeernuT100]

I don't see why anyone on this board would tell you yes. Carbon Monoxide is heavier than air so just having an open door or an open window is not enough.


Life first, beer second.

-bn

 

[funkswing]

Carbon Monoxide is heavier than air so just having an open door or an open window is not enough.

Yes, and outside has way more vol. than inside your basement. Diffusion of gasses is on your side. A window isn't really the answer, and no body has suggested that (besides you).

Yes, it can be a concern. But it can also be overcame. The reason why someone would tell them they can do it is because you can do it.

 

[BeernuT100]

Sorry for the above post. Let me correct myself:

It's not that it is heavier but that it doesn't dissipate easily.

-bn

 

[BeernuT100]

A window isn't really the answer, and no body has suggested that (besides you).

I didn't say anyone mentioned a window.

Yes, it can be a concern. But it can also be overcame. The reason why someone would tell them they can do it is because you can do it.

Ok...

OP: I suggest you do some searching on this board and read up on the dangers of CO. Especially talk this over with anyone else in the house and make them aware of what you are doing and what to be on the look out for if you choose to got his route.

-bn

 

[longke]

I'll keep my eye out on http://www.darwinawards.com/

 

[springer]

Meh... I wouldn't. The propane burners we use are terribly inefficient, they can throw off a lot of CO gas and you won't know until it's too late. Almost as important, if anything were to happen and you were to have a fire, I guarantee you your homeowner's policy isn't going to cover you.

I agree with not doing it in the basement unless you have a commercial hood exhaust and fresh air intake but then most of the heat would be replaced with cold air...

bird In my insurance career I have seen some dumb moves by my insureds like frying turkeys on their decks close to the house and setting it on fire or leaving the house during a power outage 6to go get dinner but forgetting to turn off the stove top that they were frying dinner on , but stupidity isn't grounds for denying a claim

 

[the_bird]

bird In my insurance career I have seen some dumb moves by my insureds like frying turkeys on their decks close to the house and setting it on fire or leaving the house during a power outage 6to go get dinner but forgetting to turn off the stove top that they were frying dinner on , but stupidity isn't grounds for denying a claim

Using a propane burner that's specifically designed to only be used outdoors inside a basement? If your insurance company's not going to deny that claim, I want all my coverage through them but I can't imagine that's the case across the industry.

Using a turkey fryer on a deck? That's something a reasonably person would do. You're outdoors, after all. Too close to the house? That's an understandable mistake, as is leaving the stove on when you leave the house (I've done that myself, burned myself a little bit last week because I had left the stovetop on).

Using a outdoor propane burner inside a basement? Whole other thing, that's easy to perceive as well beyond stupid and well into the realm of willfully negligent. It sure as hell isn't a fight I'd want to battle in court.

 

[funkswing]

My basement is also a garage, with a garage door. I brew right next to the open garage door.

So the two GA boys here are willing to do this and all the yanks are worried about insurance claims and court battles? Does this tell us something?

Well, it may if Beernut is from the north, too.........

 

[the_bird]

What, does it get a little chilly out for you Georgia boys, so you've got to go in the house? Can't brew in the driveway when it gets below freezing?

 

[rico567]

That would be a big NO.

 

[airwolf]

I heat my house with a propane gas boiler; it is basicly a burner at the bottom, coils in the middle to collect heat and a hood at the top of the coils to collect fumes with a blower to vent them outside.

Why would be so had to put a skirt around the BK slightly above the burner and vent the fumes off?

 

[funkswing]

What, does it get a little chilly out for you Georgia boys, so you've got to go in the house? Can't brew in the driveway when it gets below freezing?

Its kinda hard when its raining. And yes, when y'alls cold air moves down here for a couple of weeks, its quite uncomfortable.

 

[Mysticmead]

What, does it get a little chilly out for you Georgia boys, so you've got to go in the house? Can't brew in the driveway when it gets below freezing?

naaa.. I was deep frying a turkey yesterday in the sleet and snow.. and will be outside brewing this weekend.. temps will be above freezing but not by much..


for the OP... IF you provide good ventilation, then I don't see why not.. just make sure that air is moving..

 

[funkswing]

for the OP... IF you provide good ventilation, then I don't see why not.. just make sure that air is moving..

Another GA boy saying go for it!

 

[Mysticmead]

just don't start your brew day with... hey Ya'll watch this!

 

[funkswing]

^^ That's how I start everyday.............

 

[SkylerChaBro]

Well I suppose it's less dangerous than some other things I have seen.

Recently an acquaintance was having a power outage party where his friend pulled a gas powered generator into the basement. While he was out for a bit, guess what, his friend started the generator in the basement. People were quick to put a stop to that one.

Either way I wouldn't do it and I would advise caution. Cheers!

Mark K.

 

[Mainer28]

If anyone is curious I survived.

 

[Mysticmead]

glad to hear it went well

 

[tnbrewer371]

My basement is also a garage, with a garage door. I brew right next to the open garage door.

So the two GA boys here are willing to do this and all the yanks are worried about insurance claims and court battles? Does this tell us something?

Well, it may if Beernut is from the north, too.........

i also brew in my garage, with the door only partially cracked in the wintertime, not had a problem, and never seen a problem with doing it but then again i live in the south as well.......

 

[ILuvIPA]

Can you do it? Yep. Is a burner indoors more dangerous than outside? Yep. I suppose it comes down to your risk tolerance. 15 years ago I often went bar hopping on the Harley and rode home uh. . .right. Still have the Harley but I won't do that today. You can take a risk 100 times & get away with it but if 101 bites you. . .too late, you lose.

BTW, using an "outdoor rated device" indoors will not negate homeowner coverage. I'm an adjustor, I pay claims

 

[BigTexun]

My basement is also a garage, with a garage door. I brew right next to the open garage door.

So the two GA boys here are willing to do this and all the yanks are worried about insurance claims and court battles? Does this tell us something?

Well, it may if Beernut is from the north, too.........

Hey Funk, please don't count me in your list of Georgia supporters. I said I do it in my basement, next to a garage door that is partially open when the burner is on. The difference between a cellar and a basement (with an adjoining garage door), is not semantics; it could be the difference in life or death.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Yes you can.

The real question is, should you?

If the space is very well ventiliated and you watch it like a hwak (do NOT get complacent) then you "should" be okay. People cook indoors with propane everyday.

 

[BeernuT100]

Carbon monoxide hazards are real

Found the sticky of a good thread to read.

-bn

 

[KevinM]

There may be some confusion regarding a basement. Some houses have below ground level rooms that some people call basements, others term as cellars. Liabilities aside, there are gas stoves with good ventilation systems that are used in those. So it's a possibility. Would I do a turkey frier in one? Nah, too much involvement, lots of propane & Co2 use and I'd need to make sure I had a ventilator rated for that output.

Admittedly, I do use one on the deck in the summer. It's actually the most level and stable place since everything else is at a slant. In the winter, I use it in a garage after pulling out a car and opening the large two car garage door. I do that with coffee roasting too, there's just a lot of smoke. Some people have garage/basements with, as someone previously mentioned, they have and have the garage door open.

Ok, that was at the parents, and at this apartment I have no way to use the frier so it sits outside at the parents where they continue to use it for outdoor cooking, since the high heat output makes it ideal for stir fries. It was theirs originally after all.

 

[springer]

Using a propane burner that's specifically designed to only be used outdoors inside a basement? If your insurance company's not going to deny that claim, I want all my coverage through them but I can't imagine that's the case across the industry.

Using a turkey fryer on a deck? That's something a reasonably person would do. You're outdoors, after all. Too close to the house? That's an understandable mistake, as is leaving the stove on when you leave the house (I've done that myself, burned myself a little bit last week because I had left the stovetop on).

Using a outdoor propane burner inside a basement? Whole other thing, that's easy to perceive as well beyond stupid and well into the realm of willfully negligent. It sure as hell isn't a fight I'd want to battle in court.

BTW, using an "outdoor rated device" indoors will not negate homeowner coverage. I'm an adjustor, I pay claims

If there is no intent to burn the house down to collect on the insurance the company will pay the claim.

Some have said that they use propane/gas stoves inside . These units use much less fuel than a turkey fryer some wont even bring more than 5 gallons to a rapid boil. now if you were using a commercial unit like say in a Chinese take out place you need huge ventilation hoods . I do brew in my detached garage which is about 1400 sq feet but I leave a door open and the windows on the second floor open also. Never really warms up in there, just out of the wind

 

[funkswing]

Why would a commercial kitchen use propane? Wouldn't they be using natural gas?

 

[ThatGuyRyan]

I brew in my basement all the time in the winter. My basement is 3/4 below ground level and I boil next to a open window with a box fan that fits the window blowing out. I then have a box fan in the window across the basement blowing IN as well as a third fan in the open back door blowing in. I have two carbon monoxide detectors one ceiling level and one that I lay on the table by the brew area and they never went off using the Blichmann burner. When I used my old turkey fryer once things got fuzzy. I wouldn’t suggest using a cheap burner inside they are just way too inefficient. I also have a full basement that is about 900sq feet so with proper ventilation I don’t see a issue. But you must have continuous air circulating coming in and out, just a open window will not due. I also recommend that if you must brew indoors make sure someone else is in the house and ask them to check on you every now and then. And if you feel off, slow or tired turn it off and get out!

 

[starrfish]

I would consider brewing in a garage on ground level with door open and a fan running, but NEVER below ground level... sound like a death pit to me.
"Death Pit Brewing - Once & Done".

If you do and something bad happens I'm sure we'd divy up your equipment fairly! (just kidding. Don't do it.)

 

[joety]

Unless there is a specific carve out, or as pointed out by someone else, intent, the insurance company is obligated to pay the claim. Not that that would stop some claims adjuster from trying to screw you out of your benefits (that is their job, afterall) but insurance is there to protect against negligence as well as acts of God.

 

[noodledancer77]

Another for the long list of activities started with the saying, "Here, hold my beer"!

 

[springer]

Why would a commercial kitchen use propane? Wouldn't they be using natural gas?

not all areas have gas specially rural areas like mine there are several commercial kitchens that use propane.