Safety Meeting: Can I boil with propane in my cellar?

[Mainer28]

Boston is about 15 degrees and windy today. I find that my boils are more difficult to reach and maintain in cold weather. I would like to boil in my cellar. I do have a door which would remain open and that would provide decent ventilation.

This is fine right?

 

[longke]

Only if you don't plan on waking up afterwards.
http://www.cdc.gov/co/faqs.htm

 

[kanzimonson]

I remember reading (possibly in Papazian) that you don't even want to use propane near a basement because the gas is denser than air and will float downwards. Starting in a low lying area sounds more dangerous, unless your door is at the same level as the ground.

 

[the_bird]

Meh... I wouldn't. The propane burners we use are terribly inefficient, they can throw off a lot of CO gas and you won't know until it's too late. Almost as important, if anything were to happen and you were to have a fire, I guarantee you your homeowner's policy isn't going to cover you.

 

[Mainer28]

Hehe.

But officer, the door was open!!!

Thanks.

 

[funkswing]

I do it all the time in my basement (propane brewing, that is). I have a garage door that I open (only partially open when its cold outside). My burner is right next to the open garage door.

With ventilation there is no problem. Sure there may be carbon monoxide produced, but if you give the gas somewhere to go (i.e., an open door) its not going to collect in your basement.

If you are really scared about it you can setup a fan to move air away from the burner towards the door.

 

[BigTexun]

I do it all the time in my basement (propane brewing, that is). I have a garage door that I open (only partially open when its cold outside). My burner is right next to the open garage door.

With ventilation there is no problem. Sure there may be carbon monoxide produced, but if you give the gas somewhere to go (i.e., an open door) its not going to collect in your basement.

If you are really scared about it you can setup a fan to move air away from the burner towards the door.

I do this in my basement as well... however, a basement is a lot different than a cellar. In a cellar, you have to walk up steps to get to the door.

Personally, I wouldn't do it in a cellar.

 

[funkswing]

Ahh, semantics. Well if you are in a dungeon, then yes, I wouldn't do it in there either.

But its not a big deal if you have some sort of ground-level (i.e. burner level) ventilation such as a door.

 

[BeernuT100]

I don't see why anyone on this board would tell you yes. Carbon Monoxide is heavier than air so just having an open door or an open window is not enough.


Life first, beer second.

-bn

 

[funkswing]

Carbon Monoxide is heavier than air so just having an open door or an open window is not enough.

Yes, and outside has way more vol. than inside your basement. Diffusion of gasses is on your side. A window isn't really the answer, and no body has suggested that (besides you).

Yes, it can be a concern. But it can also be overcame. The reason why someone would tell them they can do it is because you can do it.

 

[BeernuT100]

Sorry for the above post. Let me correct myself:

It's not that it is heavier but that it doesn't dissipate easily.

-bn

 

[BeernuT100]

A window isn't really the answer, and no body has suggested that (besides you).

I didn't say anyone mentioned a window.

Yes, it can be a concern. But it can also be overcame. The reason why someone would tell them they can do it is because you can do it.

Ok...

OP: I suggest you do some searching on this board and read up on the dangers of CO. Especially talk this over with anyone else in the house and make them aware of what you are doing and what to be on the look out for if you choose to got his route.

-bn

 

[longke]

I'll keep my eye out on http://www.darwinawards.com/

 

[springer]

Meh... I wouldn't. The propane burners we use are terribly inefficient, they can throw off a lot of CO gas and you won't know until it's too late. Almost as important, if anything were to happen and you were to have a fire, I guarantee you your homeowner's policy isn't going to cover you.

I agree with not doing it in the basement unless you have a commercial hood exhaust and fresh air intake but then most of the heat would be replaced with cold air...

bird In my insurance career I have seen some dumb moves by my insureds like frying turkeys on their decks close to the house and setting it on fire or leaving the house during a power outage 6to go get dinner but forgetting to turn off the stove top that they were frying dinner on , but stupidity isn't grounds for denying a claim

 

[the_bird]

bird In my insurance career I have seen some dumb moves by my insureds like frying turkeys on their decks close to the house and setting it on fire or leaving the house during a power outage 6to go get dinner but forgetting to turn off the stove top that they were frying dinner on , but stupidity isn't grounds for denying a claim

Using a propane burner that's specifically designed to only be used outdoors inside a basement? If your insurance company's not going to deny that claim, I want all my coverage through them but I can't imagine that's the case across the industry.

Using a turkey fryer on a deck? That's something a reasonably person would do. You're outdoors, after all. Too close to the house? That's an understandable mistake, as is leaving the stove on when you leave the house (I've done that myself, burned myself a little bit last week because I had left the stovetop on).

Using a outdoor propane burner inside a basement? Whole other thing, that's easy to perceive as well beyond stupid and well into the realm of willfully negligent. It sure as hell isn't a fight I'd want to battle in court.

 

[funkswing]

My basement is also a garage, with a garage door. I brew right next to the open garage door.

So the two GA boys here are willing to do this and all the yanks are worried about insurance claims and court battles? Does this tell us something?

Well, it may if Beernut is from the north, too.........

 

[the_bird]

What, does it get a little chilly out for you Georgia boys, so you've got to go in the house? Can't brew in the driveway when it gets below freezing?

 

[rico567]

That would be a big NO.

 

[airwolf]

I heat my house with a propane gas boiler; it is basicly a burner at the bottom, coils in the middle to collect heat and a hood at the top of the coils to collect fumes with a blower to vent them outside.

Why would be so had to put a skirt around the BK slightly above the burner and vent the fumes off?

 

[funkswing]

What, does it get a little chilly out for you Georgia boys, so you've got to go in the house? Can't brew in the driveway when it gets below freezing?

Its kinda hard when its raining. And yes, when y'alls cold air moves down here for a couple of weeks, its quite uncomfortable.

 

[Mysticmead]

What, does it get a little chilly out for you Georgia boys, so you've got to go in the house? Can't brew in the driveway when it gets below freezing?

naaa.. I was deep frying a turkey yesterday in the sleet and snow.. and will be outside brewing this weekend.. temps will be above freezing but not by much..


for the OP... IF you provide good ventilation, then I don't see why not.. just make sure that air is moving..

 

[funkswing]

for the OP... IF you provide good ventilation, then I don't see why not.. just make sure that air is moving..

Another GA boy saying go for it!

 

[Mysticmead]

just don't start your brew day with... hey Ya'll watch this!

 

[funkswing]

^^ That's how I start everyday.............

 

[SkylerChaBro]

Well I suppose it's less dangerous than some other things I have seen.

Recently an acquaintance was having a power outage party where his friend pulled a gas powered generator into the basement. While he was out for a bit, guess what, his friend started the generator in the basement. People were quick to put a stop to that one.

Either way I wouldn't do it and I would advise caution. Cheers!

Mark K.

 

[Mainer28]

If anyone is curious I survived.

 

[Mysticmead]

glad to hear it went well

 

[tnbrewer371]

My basement is also a garage, with a garage door. I brew right next to the open garage door.

So the two GA boys here are willing to do this and all the yanks are worried about insurance claims and court battles? Does this tell us something?

Well, it may if Beernut is from the north, too.........

i also brew in my garage, with the door only partially cracked in the wintertime, not had a problem, and never seen a problem with doing it but then again i live in the south as well.......

 

[ILuvIPA]

Can you do it? Yep. Is a burner indoors more dangerous than outside? Yep. I suppose it comes down to your risk tolerance. 15 years ago I often went bar hopping on the Harley and rode home uh. . .right. Still have the Harley but I won't do that today. You can take a risk 100 times & get away with it but if 101 bites you. . .too late, you lose.

BTW, using an "outdoor rated device" indoors will not negate homeowner coverage. I'm an adjustor, I pay claims

 

[BigTexun]

My basement is also a garage, with a garage door. I brew right next to the open garage door.

So the two GA boys here are willing to do this and all the yanks are worried about insurance claims and court battles? Does this tell us something?

Well, it may if Beernut is from the north, too.........

Hey Funk, please don't count me in your list of Georgia supporters. I said I do it in my basement, next to a garage door that is partially open when the burner is on. The difference between a cellar and a basement (with an adjoining garage door), is not semantics; it could be the difference in life or death.