Safbrew T-58

[loganb]

what all should i expect from this yeast besides somewhat peppery and spicy flavor? just ordered some stuff from BMW and wanted to try a differnt yeast. i am makin a batch with 2-row amarillo and t-58. thanks

 

[mgo737]

I brewed once with it and got lots of banana and bubble gum without any spice. Not what I was expecting but perhaps it was due to some other variable. I am curious as to your experience, please keep updated...

 

[BA_from_GA]

used it in a belgian wit about a year ago. some serious bubble gum aroma from the primary, ended up with a very subtle bubble gum presence after bottling, but it faded over time very nicely. not sure on the banana, had some coriander and bitter orange in the recipe, so that was the only real fruity taste i got.

 

[Crazytwoknobs]

I've got three gallons of 1.080 craziness going with it. It's been below 64f for a few months, and I plan on letting it sit for a few more months.

I only know what the website says, and I don't think it's been available for too long OR too popular, so hopefully someone with more experience with this yeast will post here.

Good luck!

 

[loganb]

i should be brewing this weekend so i will let yall know the out come. i just hope it warms up by this weekend. the one thing i hate about central texas is the weather cant make up it mind. last week it was 72F and beautiful and now it is like 30F and sucks. cant wait to move to hawaii going to be a huge change. so this brew is to you central texas.

 

[BackAlleyBrewingCo]

FWIW, I've brewed a Tripel and a Strong Golden with this yeast. The Tripel was fermented in the low 60's and came out tasting good. The Strong fermented in the high 60's/low 70's and came out with strong banana flavors; thankfully it's faded over the last few months.

 

[loganb]

ToledoDave nice to know i was goin to try and ferment this in the mid 60s. most of my batches stay around 65 in my brew closet but during the violent fermentation i get with some yeast i have to use the wet t-shirt method

 

[Crazytwoknobs]

I started off in the low 60's in november, and by last week it was in the high-mid 50's. I kegged it last week, and now it's got this great spiciness.

I'm totally going to use this yeast again.

 

[loganb]

update i brewed this yesterday and pitched around 2pm at about 68F went to get some new furniture and got home about 630pm and it was already goin like crazy temp on the outside of fermenter said 72F room temp said 65F and took an inside temp and it said 70F. i used amarillo hop for this one FWH and a ten min addition only hope it goes well with the "spicy" flavor of the yeast. smells awsome. preboil og was 1.035 post was 1.049 so i hit all my numbers good. had 2 set back with this one while brew though. first when i doughed in i freakin dropped my thermometer in the mash and that to fish it out. not fun at all. and then the only time i dont use rice hulls i get a stuck sparge! but i got it taken care of and the funny thing is all i used was American 2-row. but i will let you know how this turns out in a few more weeks.

 

[ghpeel]

Bottled a Belgian Amber I made with this yeast just a few days ago. I'll post back once it's carbed and sampled. At bottling it had a weird funky, sweet-and-spice flavor that reminded me of Hefe at little, but not exactly.

Also, my beer went from 1.063 to 1.018 and wouldn't go lower. Had almost a pound of unrefined sugar in the recipe, so I thought it would go lower.

 

[MVKTR2]

I've got a batch of wheat bier going with this yeast right now. It's my attempt at cloning Blue Heron, a now discontinued bier made by Lazy Magnolia Brewery here in MS. It's the 2nd highest rated Krystalweizen on ratebeer, good stuff! The brewer told me they fermented it with T-58 at 80-85 degrees!:rockin: WOW that's hot. Well I pitched mine Tuesday night at about 66 degrees. By the time activity had started Wed. morning the temp was at 68. I woke up at 3:00 this am (thursday) and the temp is up to 78 with crazy fermentation going on. I usually use a water bath and frozen 2-liters to control ferment temps, but am letting this one go at it's own pace. However I did move it from the bedroom to the storage room which stays around 60 degrees fairly consistently this time of year. I don't want it to go too much higher. It smells like banana bread! I think I'm gonna love the flavor, but am really worried about hot alcohols. The bier that I get my inspiration from is fantastic very fruity/banana aroma and flavor. This is the craziest thing I've done as a brewer thus far, hoping it turns out to be bierie goodness!

Schlante,
Phillip

 

[jrfuda]

...my beer went from 1.063 to 1.018 and wouldn't go lower. Had almost a pound of unrefined sugar in the recipe, so I thought it would go lower.

Same here. My latest batch with an OG of 1.062 stopped at 1.026... I think the low attenuation characteristics of this yeast, plus the "too high" mash I did (156, was dialing in my RIMS during its first use) conspired to give me a higher than expected FG (was supposed to be 1.019). Still in the secondary, but it tasted good during my test at transfer!

 

[MVKTR2]

Same here. My latest batch with an OG of 1.062 stopped at 1.026... I think the low attenuation characteristics of this yeast, plus the "too high" mash I did (156, was dialing in my RIMS during its first use) conspired to give me a higher than expected FG (was supposed to be 1.019). Still in the secondary, but it tasted good during my test at transfer!

Come on jrfuda, you need to update the good people here. Those of us following another T-58 thread know your bier dropped to 1.021 on an expected 1.019 FG!

Just messin with ya,
Phillip

 

[Teacher]

Hmmmmm...T-58 is supposed to be a fairly high-attenuating yeast, and that's been my (single) experience with it. I don't have the exact numbers on me, but my Belgian-inspired rye ale went from something like 1.080 to 1.014.

 

[MVKTR2]

Hmmmmm...T-58 is supposed to be a fairly high-attenuating yeast, and that's been my (single) experience with it. I don't have the exact numbers on me, but my Belgian-inspired rye ale went from something like 1.080 to 1.014.

So how did it turn out teacher? How was the yeast character and any idea about the fermentation specs?

Schlante,
Phillip

 

[jrfuda]

Fermentis' spec sheet for T-58 ( http://www.fermentis.com/FO/pdf/HB/EN/Safbrew_T-58_HB.pdf ) says it has a "Final Gravity: High" which is why I stated it was a medium-to-low attenuation yeast, however, it appears teacher has had different results.

And yes, once I measured my FG properly, it turned out to be 1.021. I'm knocking the temp up a little before I dry hop to see if I can squeeze out some more points. (thanks for the reminder Phillip, I forgot I posted to this thread too).

The taste, in its still green state, when I tasted hydro sample was rather neutral. I was going for the "earthy" new belgium flavor that's in so many of their beers (versus the spicy/estery flavor in authentic belgians), which is why I went close to the bottom of fermentis' 59-75F temp range for the early part of the primary. I think, given the temp range, I could have just used US05 and got the same results and more attenuation. I have everything to make a starter (flask, stirplate) & could of used a liquid belgian strain, just didn't feel like doing it; I've actually been trying to avoid liquid strains all together and want to see what i can do with dry yeast and careful temp control. I actually think that the T-58 at 61F had a more nuetral taste than the beers I've fermented with US05, when my temp management wasn't so good. And man, can that T-58 clear up a beer. I can clearly see my better bottle's racking adapter through my 16 SRM beer, even better than I could through some lighter beers I've brewed. I hope their's enough yeast left for natural carb come bottleing time, though, since I'm using tap-a-draft bottle, I can always force carb if all the yeast has settled out (which I doubt).

I think it's good we're getting some info on T-58 use on the board for everyone to see, there's not much info out there about it... There are about 1/2 a dozen threads on the board, each with a little info... maybe they should all be merged to consolidate the info?

 

[Crazytwoknobs]

Mine went below 60 and man is it peppery. Like black pepper.


I think i'm gonna dry hop it with .75oz of cascade.

 

[loganb]

it has been a week so far and it smells pretty good. very bready smelling with small amounts of bananaish smell very faint though. havent taken a hyro reading yet so i dont know how it is tasting yet. been around the mid 60s on this one. cant wait to see how this turns out.

 

[jrfuda]

I'm beginning to thing I'm in the minority regarding my experiences with the flavor characteristics of this yeast... or maybe my recipe is masking it (here it is... I missed OG becuase I used to much sparge water, so batch size is closer to 6 gallons). My previous flavor comments were made based on tastings prior to dry hopping, as I'm guessing the cascade will mask a lot of the yeast characteristics.

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Fu Below
Brewer: John Fuda
Asst Brewer:
Style: Christmas/Winter Specialty Spice Beer
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 7.35 gal
Estimated OG: 1.072 SG
Estimated Color: 16.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 29.1 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
8.0 oz Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 3.56 %
9 lbs 4.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 65.93 %
2 lbs 4.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 16.04 %
1 lbs 2.1 oz Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 8.05 %
10.4 oz Toasted Malt (27.0 SRM) Grain 4.63 %
4.0 oz Special Roast (50.0 SRM) Grain 1.78 %
0.70 oz Magnum [12.10 %] (60 min) Hops 28.6 IBU
2.00 oz Cascade [5.40 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs SafBrew Specialty Ale (DCL Yeast #T-58) Yeast-Ale

Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 14.03 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 21.05 qt of water at 163.7 F 154.0 F

 

[MVKTR2]

I think it's good we're getting some info on T-58 use on the board for everyone to see, there's not much info out there about it... There are about 1/2 a dozen threads on the board, each with a little info... maybe they should all be merged to consolidate the info?

I totally agree. A great number of people have fully embraced Nottingham with open arms in the past couple years(Many thanks to Orfy & Ed Wort for that) and feel similarly about US-05. To lesser degrees S-04 and Windsor have been embraced, yet much of the homebrew community roundly rejects or at the least shy away from any other dry yeasts. These yeasts are used all the time by professional breweries. One thing that hurts the lesser known or newer varieties is there are some prominent homebrewers that shy away from them... strongly shy away from them. Jamil Z. comes to mind. Honestly though I think these yeast have been also hurt by the manufacturer's poor descriptions & lack of information put forth by them.

Mine went below 60 and man is it peppery. Like black pepper.

I think i'm gonna dry hop it with .75oz of cascade.

This is really different from what jrfuda is saying about his bier also fermented at very low ale temps. Do tell what was the style/recipe like for this brew. Also how old is this bier?

Let's keep the info flowing on this yeast!

As for my brew I'm still a ways away from being able to offer any tasting notes of worth as mine isn't even a week old yet. I plan on checking the gravity on Thurs. which is day 9. If it's good I'm gonna cold crash it and bottle it the following Tuesday. Wheat biers are usually good young, this will be yet another test for this yeast.

Schlante,
Phillip

 

[loganb]

yesterday was one week and i took a hydro reading and it was at 1.018 the og was 1.048. tasted pretty dang good. had some differnt flavors. some i cant really put my finger on but i did taste a little bit of spicy flavor. so far i really like this yeast its different. cant wait to see how it is when it is carbed and conditioned. oh and there is still a good size yeast "colony" thing on the top but i am hopin it drops out within the next week.

 

[78kombi]

I have done a few beers with T-58 and its rival T-33, both are good to 11%
I find that it is for Belgian beers, the 58 really leaves alot behind that cannot be masked.
Great for a tripple, I kept one bottled for over a year and it was amazing, the banana will mellow off after 6 months, but really both the 58 and 33 need at least 6 months to show off its true colors, which will give you a sweet luscious high gravity Belgian style that will rival any Trappist labeled beer. I cannot imagine what it would be like in a wheat beer, the yeast will dominate the beer completely.
For this yeast I recommend primary at higher temps (70°f) as told in 'Brew like a Monk' I think some also say over 80° also, but in the early stages ( first 3 months) this beer will be real hot in alcohol , which is why i say you need 6 months at least to let that mellow out.

I just got on the Nottingham and Windsor bandwagen, but so far I am unimpressed.
I think the Safbrew company has a product that is well enough that I never buy liquid yeast anymore. I have a great tripple recipe if anyones interest. with the T-58 of course! Joe

 

[Crazytwoknobs]

This is really different from what jrfuda is saying about his bier also fermented at very low ale temps. Do tell what was the style/recipe like for this brew. Also how old is this bier?

I was trying for a dark american ale, but I fudged it a bit. There's a bit of chocolate flavor and a nice cascade kick. OG 1.073, didn't take a FG.

If you'd like, I could bring you a bottle. I go between the west suburbs and hyde park every weekend.

 

[nowashburn]

I used this in a belgian blonde. Fermentation took off in about 2-3 hours! Temp was 58F and was done rather quickly, in about 4 days there was no bubbling. Primary 2 weeks, secondary 2 weeks, bottled 3 weeks and the beer tastes very good. A little peppery and does have some banana flavors.

 

[SkewedBrewing]

I used this in a belgian blonde. Fermentation took off in about 2-3 hours! Temp was 58F and was done rather quickly, in about 4 days there was no bubbling. Primary 2 weeks, secondary 2 weeks, bottled 3 weeks and the beer tastes very good. A little peppery and does have some banana flavors.

I used it a while back in a Belgian as well. I had a couple of bottles left that are about a year old now and this yeast really shines through. For a dry yeast, its great.

 

[Teacher]

So how did it turn out teacher? How was the yeast character and any idea about the fermentation specs?

Schlante,
Phillip

It came out somewhat peppery but not overpoweringly so. There wasn't a whole lot of estery profile, but I didn't ferment much over 70 F.

 

[ghpeel]

OK I'm drinking my first bottle of brew using this yeast now and I have to say that I'm pleasantly surprised. I can't put my finger on the exact flavor, and my recipe was a little weird, but right now I'm getting banana and fruity a lot more than any spice. There's is a hint of spice but nothing that I would call "black pepper."

Its not a great beer, and its not really anything I could put a style on, but its not bad at all.

Here's my recipe:
http://hopville.com/recipe/143708/belgian-pale-ale-recipes/rare-fox-belgian-amber-ale

 

[jrfuda]

My FG is going to be below 1.021 after all. Dry hopping on Satruday night restarted fermentation, so it must've been stuck. At first I thought it was just the typical release of disolved CO2 and other things that usually happen when dry hopping, but there's some serious primary-like fermentation going on now. I can watch individual hop peices being stirred by the active fermentation (track them as they move from the top-bottom-top of the BB in a constant flow, at a rather rapid pace). I drew a few drops out last night to give it a taste and it's got a lot going on now. In addition to the aroma from 2 oz of cascade added during the dry hop, I could defineately detect the peppery and estery characters. I had ramped the temp from 61F at the start of primary to 75F just before I transferred to secondary. It's been sitting at 70F since i dry hopped, and the restarted fermentation has held it steady there. I hope it finishes in the next couple of days, becuase I was only wanting to do a 7-10 day dry hop. I hope the gravity stabalizes by Friday so I can crash cool Friday night and bottle on Sunday. I will not be suprised if FG now gets to 1.009, since I undershot my OG by .010 (got 1.062 with a target of 1.072 since I over sparged a bit and got over 6 gallons post-boil)... since my OG was .010 short, then I suppose my target FG of 1.019 should be .010 lower as well, hence the 1.009. Guess I'll see. I hope it doesn't end up being too dry, and therefore over-hopped. Time will tell. I'll have to post a tasting update when I get to bottle.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Okay so, I recently concocted a pseudo Belgian Imperial Strawberry Blonde Ale. Marris Otter, and 5 pounds of Amber Invert Candi Syrup = 30% of fermentables. OG 1.110. Hops were EKG and Fuggles at FWH, and 15 minutes. With 3 ounces of "NW Oklahoma Goldings" leaf in a hop back.

I had "growed up" the dregs of a Rochefort 6 to produce nearly a pint of flocculated slurry and pitched that but, after 36 hours of no signs of krauesen I opted top fortify the beer with a sachet of T-58.

The R6 dreg were pitched at 60*F and the ferm cabinet was set to not drop below 75*F. After 36 hours I pitched the T-58 and watched the temps rise to 80*F actual ferm temp.

That beer was brewn nearly a month ago. the yeast chewed the OG down to 1.005 within 3 day. I held the temp for another 2 days after which I dropped the beer temp (liquid temp) down to 27*F until it became slushy and then raised the temp back to 34*F and held it there for nearly 3 weeks.

The beer is in keg now conditioning and prime carbonating. I made sure to get a good slug of the cake into the keg for carbonation. I'll let the keg condition at room temp for 4 weeks and then plunk it into the keezer under gas for another 3 weeks.

The beer at transfer was AMAZING! Pepper, Clove, hint of Bannana, and the floral notes of the hops. It wasn't very cohesive at transfer but was very promising.

 

[jrfuda]

...the yeast chewed the OG down to 1.005 within 3 day...

Wow, that'll be some "knock your socks off" stuff! 12.47% ABV!!! Defineately deserves the Imperial moniker!

 

[EvilGnome6]

Any comments on how this one does for bottle conditioning? According to the manufacturer description it's often used for that because of its high alcohol tolerance and will stick nicely to the bottom of the bottle. I brew a lot of high gravity Belgians and want a good strain for fresh bottling yeast. I've been using Nottingham lately but I don't like how it clumps together in little chunks.

 

[ate-star]

Is T-58 good for wheat beer, like Hefe? Has anyone brew wheat beer with T-58?

 

[ghpeel]

I haven't done it, but it seems like it would <del>definitely</del> <i>maybe</i> make a decent hefe just based on the smells I'm getting from my Belgian Amber.

Update on my own brew: DAMN its better than it was a week ago.

This yeast has surprised me. The beer I'm drinking tonight has less banana than my first one, which is good for making "Belgians" instead of hefe's. I'm getting some Belgian-y "bread" aromas, and with this particular recipe (malty amber ale) I'm thinking that I could make a decent Three Philosophers Clone if I added some cherries to the secondary maybe.

My beer is slightly more bitter than I would like, which is weird because I planned on it being only about 20 IBU's, but I think with some more time this will shape up very nicely.

 

[MVKTR2]

I was trying for a dark american ale, but I fudged it a bit. There's a bit of chocolate flavor and a nice cascade kick. OG 1.073, didn't take a FG.

If you'd like, I could bring you a bottle. I go between the west suburbs and hyde park every weekend.

Oh how I wish you could bring me a bottle, but that'd be a long drive as my location is 'Oprah's birthplace' as in rural Attala County in Misisipi. But hey if you're up to it, I'm game! :fro:

As for my brew I'm still a ways away from being able to offer any tasting notes of worth as mine isn't even a week old yet. I plan on checking the gravity on Thurs. which is day 9. If it's good I'm gonna cold crash it and bottle it the following Tuesday. Wheat biers are usually good young, this will be yet another test for this yeast.

Schlante,
Phillip

Tasted the hydro sample last night at 2 weeks. Just so happens I was drinking a Paulaner's Hefeweizen at the time of the tasting. My bier is an attempt at cloning a now discontinued local Krystalweizen. The bier, Blue Heron, reminded me of Paulaners only maltier, less wheat, and more bubble gum/banana forward. My clone attempt is all those things exactly. The nose, esters, and profile is dominated by banana, then bubble gum, then undertones of clove and just a touch of spice. It's also fairly malty and the gravity went from 1.055 to 1.011. I'm cold crashing it right now in a 30 degree fridge for a week or so before bottling, trying to help get a 'krystal' bier. btw I fremented in the high 70s and as high as 80-82 degrees for a brief period.

Is T-58 good for wheat beer, like Hefe? Has anyone brew wheat beer with T-58?

I would say this yeast made a pretty good hefe for me on my one attempt above. The hydro sample was suprisingly close to the Paulaners I was drinking at the time. The Paulaner's was more bready/wheaty but the recipe accounts for this as I only had 35-40% wheat malt in my bier. The Paulaner's also had more clove/spice flavor, but I anticipate a lowering of the fermentation temp would balance it out between the fruity esters and spice. I'll definately be brewing up a batch of 50/50 wheat/marris otter and fermenting in the 72-75 degree range with this yeast at some point in the future to see what the results are for a true hefe. I say go for it, I think it'll come out pretty good.

In my one experience with this yeast I'd say it's more a hefe yeast than a belgian. Others thoughts on this? If I were attempting a Belgian style with this yeast I'd absolutely definitely most assuredly under pitch to try and coax more complex esters/spice and maintain temps in the high 60s until fermentation was almost done then let it go to finish/dry the bier out.

Schlante,
Phillip

Ps I was thinking this might be the yeast used to brew North Coast's PranQster bier? Didn't do any research on it, but it certainly is more fruity estery for a Belgian style than spice forward.

 

[loganb]

last night i had one of my cheater bottles that isnt really ready but close enough. man i gotta say that this yeast is awsome already. my recipe was 2 row and amarillo .5oz FWH and .5 10 min but there was alittle hop aroma but more fruit aroma and i kept the temps around 64ish. cant quite put my finger on it but it kinda smells like pear or apricot its kinda weird but awsome my wife said it smelled like banana and pears but i only got a small hint of banana. flavor is really good got some hop aroma but this yeast really stands out flavor wise. i think it would be pretty good in a belgian IPA. this is my new favorite yeast i think. i will let you know how they taste in a week or 2.

 

[jrfuda]

I took another gravity reading last night. Now it's down to 1.013. Seems like it's never gona quit! The sample tasted great. The only downside is that it's more bitter and less aromatic than planned due to the restarted ferm post-dryhopping kicking out alot of volitiles. Sort of tastes like a cross between an American Pale Ale and Belgian Dubbel right now. I'm going to take more gravity reading over the next couple of days to see if it's finally leveled off for good so I can crash cool and bottle.

It's interesting that the yeast seemed so neutral when I transferred from primary, then - when ferm restarted, it started giving me more of the attributes we expect of a belgain yeast... probably due to the low (61F) in the primary and warmer (68-72) in the secondary.

Looks like it'll be a tasty beer, probably my best yet (my 6th homebrew).

 

[beerandcoding]

I'm brewing a Wit with this yeast right now. Currently at about the 72 hour mark and I am getting a peppery, pineapple aroma off the sample glass I pulled for taking hydro readings. I am fermenting in the 72-74*f area.

Here is the recipe I used

5.5 lbs German Pilsen Malt
1.0 lbs White Wheat Malt
2.5 lbs Flaked Wheat
1.0 lbs Flaked Oats

0.5 lbs Rice Hulls

.50 oz Mt. Hood @ 60
.50 oz Mt. Hood @ 20

.75 oz Coriander @ 5
.50 oz Orange Peel Granules @ 5
.07 oz Chamomile @ 5 (2 one gram, all chamomile tea bags)
Zest of 2 medium oranges @ 5

Mashed @ 149 for 60 minutes, sparged @ 170.

Cheers!
Kevin

 

[beerandcoding]

**Update**

The Wit I am brewing is now 4.5 days in the fermenter. I took a hydro sample today and I am already down to 1.013, just shy of my target FG at 1.012.

I'm going to leave it in primary for a full 2 weeks before bottling, so I'm sure whittle off another .001. I read that the yeast doesn't attenuate well, but I am already at 73%, albeit I started with tame OG of 1.048. Still, I am quite happy with its performance so far.

Cheers!
Kevin

(The information is also posted in my thread about T-58's fermentation)

 

[fredthecat]

i've heard from other people and i thought in other threads on here that the general consensus was t-58 was bad??? im thinking of trying it for a belgian golden soon, it'll be alright? especially considering im totally limited to dry yeast at the moment

 

[Crazytwoknobs]

It's not bad, it's not what I expected.

It would work for a belgian golden, I'd imagine it'd have that bitey taste thing that Leffe has.