I'm writing this in hopes that somebody can confirm that I may just not like British yeasts. It's either that or I have made 3 duds in the last year that just happened to have a similar yeast in common.
In the past year, I have made 3 beers with 2 different strains of British style yeasts.
I first made an Oatmeal stout (all grain) with WLP002 in early 2011. After bottling and allowing to condition about 3 weeks, I tasted it an noticed an "off" flavor. The flavor is really hard to describe but it seemed to be almost "clovey". Not quite as spicy as cloves but it didn't quite seem right in the beer. It was much more prevalent when the beer was cold, and almost disappeared when the beer warmed up.
I then made a standard bitter (also all grain, Feb-March 2011). It had an aroma that was similar to the one from the stout, but it took on a more artificial character, almost like the smell of warm/burning plastic. It was pretty hard to narrow this one down as the beer went south pretty fast due to an infection I traced back to a cut in an old transfer hose. I pitched out the hose and this beer pretty quick, so I never did any further troubleshooting.
Fast-forward to November. I made another Oatmeal Stout, this time from an extract kit. It had some non-yeast problems to begin with. I did a full wort boil and miscalculated my boil off. I didn't boil off enough water so I wound up 8-10 points shy on my OG, and the beer is more of a dark brown than black. I also got distracted during the boil and put both my 30 and 10 min additions in at 30 min. So it's got more of a bite from the Cascades than I was wanting.
But this thread is about yeast. I used S-04 for the first time. Rehydrated in boiled and cooled water. Pitched at about 68F.
My first sign of trouble was the temp this beer spent the critical first 72 hours at. I pitched on a Sunday night with the stick on thermometer showing 68F and my fermentation fridge set at and holding a respectable 65F. When I got home Monday night, the stick on thermometer was registering between 72 and 74, meaning that it was surely hotter than that in the wort. I took to the forums and was assured that this yeast is a hot fermenter and my best bet was to try to keep it at bay with my fridge controller.
I did that, but I tried to bring it down gradually, not wanting to shut the yeast down by cold crashing it. As a result, it took me almost a day and a half to get it to stay consistently between 66 and 68F.
I do a 3 week primary with most of my ales, then straight to the keg if the gravity has dropped and stayed steady. But at 3 weeks, this one, even with the hot start, was still a couple of points higher than I would have expected, even if I had not missed my OG. I left it an extra week for good measure and got another 3 points out of it. After 4 days of steady readings, I kegged.
At kegging I immediately noticed the same "hot plastic" aroma that I'd had with the 002 earlier in the year. Tasting it, it had a flavor that matched the aroma. The only difference from the 002 batch is that the aromas and flavors are much stronger with s-04 than they were with the white labs yeast. A few weeks down the road, the plastic-y aroma is still there. But the flavor has settled to more of a strong clovey taste. Both of these dissipate as the beer warms. I did wind up getting more spashing than I had anticipated when kegging, so it's possible that there is a bit of oxidation at play as well.
So I pose the following questions:
1. Do these sound like fermentation related flaws, or is this just a standard ester profile for a British yeast?
2. If its the esters that come standard with British yeasts, did I just accentuate it by letting the temp get out of hand with the s-04? Or is the profile that much stronger with s-04 than it is with wlp002?
3. I have another extract beer on deck (got a couple as a gift from a family member and am just trying to get them brewed while the ingredients are still relatively fresh). This one is a Fuller's London Pride clone from highgravity.com. I have a packet of Notty (which I have also never brewed with) to use with it. My experience with the s-04 has left me a little gun shy. How does Notty rate in terms of ester profile vs. s-04? Am I going to be able to suppress them somewhat if I ferment cold enough? Or am I in line for another clovey, plasticy beer?
Note: Before anybody starts up the long primary vs. primary/secondary argument again ... I am in the long primary crowd. But that being said, I would be perfectly willing to accept that on this most recent beer (the extract stout) that the combination of a hot ferment plus just a touch more than a month on the primary yeast cake, could have resulted in some degree of autolysis (and the plastic aroma/flavor). Add to that the fact that my beer was shy on gravity anyway, and I can see where the flavor would really stand out.
In the past year, I have made 3 beers with 2 different strains of British style yeasts.
I first made an Oatmeal stout (all grain) with WLP002 in early 2011. After bottling and allowing to condition about 3 weeks, I tasted it an noticed an "off" flavor. The flavor is really hard to describe but it seemed to be almost "clovey". Not quite as spicy as cloves but it didn't quite seem right in the beer. It was much more prevalent when the beer was cold, and almost disappeared when the beer warmed up.
I then made a standard bitter (also all grain, Feb-March 2011). It had an aroma that was similar to the one from the stout, but it took on a more artificial character, almost like the smell of warm/burning plastic. It was pretty hard to narrow this one down as the beer went south pretty fast due to an infection I traced back to a cut in an old transfer hose. I pitched out the hose and this beer pretty quick, so I never did any further troubleshooting.
Fast-forward to November. I made another Oatmeal Stout, this time from an extract kit. It had some non-yeast problems to begin with. I did a full wort boil and miscalculated my boil off. I didn't boil off enough water so I wound up 8-10 points shy on my OG, and the beer is more of a dark brown than black. I also got distracted during the boil and put both my 30 and 10 min additions in at 30 min. So it's got more of a bite from the Cascades than I was wanting.
But this thread is about yeast. I used S-04 for the first time. Rehydrated in boiled and cooled water. Pitched at about 68F.
My first sign of trouble was the temp this beer spent the critical first 72 hours at. I pitched on a Sunday night with the stick on thermometer showing 68F and my fermentation fridge set at and holding a respectable 65F. When I got home Monday night, the stick on thermometer was registering between 72 and 74, meaning that it was surely hotter than that in the wort. I took to the forums and was assured that this yeast is a hot fermenter and my best bet was to try to keep it at bay with my fridge controller.
I did that, but I tried to bring it down gradually, not wanting to shut the yeast down by cold crashing it. As a result, it took me almost a day and a half to get it to stay consistently between 66 and 68F.
I do a 3 week primary with most of my ales, then straight to the keg if the gravity has dropped and stayed steady. But at 3 weeks, this one, even with the hot start, was still a couple of points higher than I would have expected, even if I had not missed my OG. I left it an extra week for good measure and got another 3 points out of it. After 4 days of steady readings, I kegged.
At kegging I immediately noticed the same "hot plastic" aroma that I'd had with the 002 earlier in the year. Tasting it, it had a flavor that matched the aroma. The only difference from the 002 batch is that the aromas and flavors are much stronger with s-04 than they were with the white labs yeast. A few weeks down the road, the plastic-y aroma is still there. But the flavor has settled to more of a strong clovey taste. Both of these dissipate as the beer warms. I did wind up getting more spashing than I had anticipated when kegging, so it's possible that there is a bit of oxidation at play as well.
So I pose the following questions:
1. Do these sound like fermentation related flaws, or is this just a standard ester profile for a British yeast?
2. If its the esters that come standard with British yeasts, did I just accentuate it by letting the temp get out of hand with the s-04? Or is the profile that much stronger with s-04 than it is with wlp002?
3. I have another extract beer on deck (got a couple as a gift from a family member and am just trying to get them brewed while the ingredients are still relatively fresh). This one is a Fuller's London Pride clone from highgravity.com. I have a packet of Notty (which I have also never brewed with) to use with it. My experience with the s-04 has left me a little gun shy. How does Notty rate in terms of ester profile vs. s-04? Am I going to be able to suppress them somewhat if I ferment cold enough? Or am I in line for another clovey, plasticy beer?
Note: Before anybody starts up the long primary vs. primary/secondary argument again ... I am in the long primary crowd. But that being said, I would be perfectly willing to accept that on this most recent beer (the extract stout) that the combination of a hot ferment plus just a touch more than a month on the primary yeast cake, could have resulted in some degree of autolysis (and the plastic aroma/flavor). Add to that the fact that my beer was shy on gravity anyway, and I can see where the flavor would really stand out.
I think it would be hard to say with the higher ferment temps. Try them again at a controlled lower primary temp.
