S-04 experiences

[luk-cha]

Hi All

Does anyone have much experience with this yeast, as i have my fridge set to 18C and after 10 days in primary it has a massive banana aroma and flavor - esters with it, i have it cold conditioning now at 5C, is this a common trait with this yeast of should i have set my temp to be 2-3C lower?

 

[balrog]

When I've used it, at those temps or cooler (16-17.5°C), it took **WAY** longer than 10d to "finish up" and I just let it go 2-3 weeks. I do extract with steeping grains. All grain maybe is different, depending on mash temp. One batch stopped at 1.024, but racking to a secondary vessel stirred or woke up the yeast and it dropped another 9 points in the next week.

 

[nolasuperbass]

Personally, I always hated S-04. That being said, if you're getting excessive esters, you are probably fermenting it too high. I have to convert your Celsius to Fahrenheit, so bear with me. Keep in mind that fermentation can add eight to ten degrees F (maybe more) to your beer. Therefore if you set you temperature to 18 C (64.4 F), it was probably fermenting above 70 F, which is way too hot. It really needs to stay below 64 F to stay clean. Next time, try setting the temp to 57 or lower and keeping a close eye on the actual temperature as it ferments. I've gotten into the habit of taking the beer's temperature once a day so that I know what it's doing. I raise the temperature as fermentation slows down. Letting it get too cold might cause the yeast to go into hibernation before the beer is done. For British beers, I keep it between 61 F and 63 F in the beginning (actual beer temperature, not temp control setting), then raise to the mid-60's as it slows. I've never had an attenuation problem.

 

[catdaddy66]

I love us-04 and have used it many times. Last year I brewed a red ale that, upon opening the first couple of bottles, had the most intense and unmistakeable smell of bananas. I knew this was from the yeast and after two or three weeks in the bottle I couldn't smell it anymore. I was actually a little disappointed but it cleared up well with a little more time. No worries


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[j1n]

Ive never used it but keep in mind that under pitching can also lead to off flavors.

 

[stratslinger]

I'd question your probe positioning in your fridge - when using S04, I typically strap the probe directly to the side of my fermenter (just put a little bubble wrap to the outside of the probe, to try to get the probe to just measure the fermenter temp and not the ambient temp), and set the ferment chamber to 20C. (Yes, I have one of those ebay temp controllers that only works in Celsius.) Never had a problem with esters at that temp. Now, if you're setting ambient temp of the fridge to 19C, then nolasuperbass probably hit it right on the nose - you're probably actually fermenting closer to 23C or 24C, and that's gonna lead to bad news.

 

[boydster]

I pitch 04 at 60, let it ferment at 62, then bump it up to 65 to finish off. Starting it at 65 resulted in very vigorous fermentations and I could easily see temps getting out of hand without good temp control if you start it warm. Fermenting above 66 coaxes out some esters I found, so I just aim to keep it under that usually.

 

[julioardz]

I really enjoy S-04. There's a lot of hate for it around here, but it's been praised on pro/commercial brewing forums. I always rehydrate and pitch at 58-60F (what's that, like 14-16C?) Sometimes I let fermentation warm up a bit, but I always keep it below 68F/20C. S-04 ferments quickly, floculates nicely, and because of that, forms a compact layer when bottle conditioning. I feel like it's very clean, quick, and low on esters when used at these temperatures. FG is generally higher than US-05 and other American strains, but I adjust for that with my mash temp when needed. I've been leaning more towards using S-04 recently and have planed my next couple of brews around it. Hope this helps some for your next batch.

Edit: All this is considering a proper pitch rate and the temperatures refer to actual wort temperature, not the chamber or temperature controller settings.

 

[Yooper]

I only use S04 if I'm fermenting the beer at 62 degrees or less. It makes a clear beer fast, but over 63 degrees it gets weirdly fruity. That's under 17C, beer temperature not ambient temperature. Generally, to have the beer be fermenting at 16C, I'd have the ambient at about 14-15C.

 

[brettwasbtd]

I only use S04 if I'm fermenting the beer at 62 degrees or less. It makes a clear beer fast, but over 63 degrees it gets weirdly fruity. That's under 17C, beer temperature not ambient temperature. Generally, to have the beer be fermenting at 16C, I'd have the ambient at about 14-15C.

I have tried it multiple times and tend to agree. fermented at 62 last time and still got a weird tangy/fruity/tart flavor. Kinda given up on S-04. I stick to liquid for English yeasts. I enjoy S-05 though!

 

[seanybubbles]

Never had a lot of good luck with s-04. Even fermented cooler I get an overwhelming tartness to my beers. I've found other liquid strains easier to work with.


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[youreanimpulse]

Some of the worst esters I ever got were S-04 in a porter that got away from me temp wise and tasted like bubblegum flavored chocolate. I thought it was infected at first. It's aged into almost exactly the flavor of cherry coke. Liked a red ale I did, but liked WY1028 a lot better for that one. I just cracked a keg of oaked IIPA that was half S-04 and half US-05 (pitched together) and it is delicious. Might have to do that again...


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[luk-cha]

thanks all for the replies, it does seem to be a temp issue on my side, i have used both nottingham and US-05 in the same set up and temp without issue, it was the first time i have used this yeast this it seems ideally i need to lower the setting to between 14-16C to avoid these issues again

 

[luk-cha]

Some of the worst esters I ever got were S-04 in a porter that got away from me temp wise and tasted like bubblegum flavored chocolate. I thought it was infected at first. It's aged into almost exactly the flavor of cherry coke. Liked a red ale I did, but liked WY1028 a lot better for that one. I just cracked a keg of oaked IIPA that was half S-04 and half US-05 (pitched together) and it is delicious. Might have to do that again...


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this is something i have been considering also before this escapade, how was you accentuation and FG?

 

[balrog]

thanks all for the replies, it does seem to be a temp issue on my side, i have used both nottingham and US-05 in the same set up and temp without issue, it was the first time i have used this yeast this it seems ideally i need to lower the setting to between 14-16C to avoid these issues again

The specification sheet says 15-20 is the ideal, range goes "down to 12" but I'd stick to 15.

 

[youreanimpulse]

this is something i have been considering also before this escapade, how was you accentuation and FG?

1.072 to 1.010, so 86%. Bunch of sugar in there to dry it out (like 15%). I'd expect less from all malt. Nice clean flavor.


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[stratslinger]

Whoa - then I have to take back my earlier post... Not sure what yeast I was thinking of that I ferment at 20C (maybe London ESB, which I tend to use a little more often?) - but judging by this spec sheet I'd be shocked if I've gone much over 16C or any over 18C.

 

[savannahbrew]

I'm surprised there hasn't been more love for this yeast on this thread so far. I've used it quite a bit and find it to a very dependable yeast. I ferment at 63 +- 1 ° and find it to be a very clean and predictable yeast.

 

[stratslinger]

There's a local nano around here that makes a killer English Mild - talking to the brewer there, S-04 is his yeast for the beer. I've never asked him about temps or anything, but I've never picked up an ester in his mild.

 

[hunter_le five]

I like S-04 overall. It seems to ferment clean for me, and I have used it to good effect in a variety of beers (mostly british styles) and cider.

I did have a bit of an under-attenuation issue, but both times it happened was on the exact same recipe, so I'm wondering if that's not a recipe or process issue and not the yeast.

 

[boydster]

I like S-04 overall. It seems to ferment clean for me, and I have used it to good effect in a variety of beers (mostly british styles) and cider.

I did have a bit of an under-attenuation issue, but both times it happened was on the exact same recipe, so I'm wondering if that's not a recipe or process issue and not the yeast.

Ditto to this entire post. For me, with any roasty beers, I found I need to mash a little lower to hit my target gravity. But I've been happy with it as long as I mind the temp. It ferments fast and drops clear.

It's not a yeast to use if you just leave your fermenter sitting in a closet or corner of a room at room temp. I think that could be why it gets a bad rep sometimes among home brewers.

 

[hunter_le five]

Ditto to this entire post. For me, with any roasty beers, I found I need to mash a little lower to hit my target gravity. But I've been happy with it as long as I mind the temp. It ferments fast and drops clear.

It's not a yeast to use if you just leave your fermenter sitting in a closet or corner of a room at room temp. I think that could be why it gets a bad rep sometimes among home brewers.

I've been wondering if a lower mash temp might be in order for the aforementioned under-attenuated recipe. It's not particularly high to begin with, but next time I will shoot for a few degrees lower and see what difference that makes.

Agreed, temp control is important with S-04. I keep wort temp in the lower 60s, and it's clean for me, and clears easily. At room temp, it probably won't be so clean.

 

[mmb]

I love S-04 for beer needing an english strain. Pretty sure I've a thread on it too.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/i-love-s-04-a-91713/