Rookie Extract vs. All-Grain

[Saunassa]

I recommend watching Basic Brewing videos on YouTube, they are the guys who showed me I could make good beer with simple methods and minimal equipment to start.

 

[Soulshine2]

Hey everyone! So I’m fresh outta college and I wanna pick up the art of brewing after I get back from vacation. Other than reading some books and listening to some podcasts, I’m a total rookie to homebrewing. I feel like i have a decent handle on things, but I realize once I get to brewing I’ll probably feel quite lost. I was wondering whether people think it’s smart to go all-grain from the get go?

I realize that it’s more expensive (thinking BIAB) and it’s far easier to get a bad final product, but I think I would enjoy challenging myself and having more control over my beer. Just looking for some thoughts from fellow beer geeks . Much love and thanks for reading my post!

I voted for all grain. its really whatever your budget of money and time allows. if you extract brew you skip a few steps but having done both , I prefer to brew grains.
IMO- I relate extract brewing to making soup from a can of concentrate(Campbell's)...all grain is more like making soup from scratch -stock, herbs, vegetables. In the end theyre both soup but one someone else made, you just add water,heat and serve. the other you picked out the ingredients ,took the time to extract the flavors ,add the herbs and you made it yourself.

 

[Soulshine2]

I remember when I started, the different terms (nomenclature) when something has an odd name like Wort instead of your brew (what you are beginning to steep (some say IT'S SPARGE!) So there was a little irritation in that area. Hence watch Youtube videos and you will see pattern.

Not wanting a science degree for treating water/h2o, just wanting good beer. I used two kits before moving on to buying bulk ingredients and creating my own recipes.
One thing I sorta sometimes wish I had done was buy the 10gal pot over the 7gal pot. However DME (there is one of those terms) DRY MALT EXTRACT or LME Liquid " ". I like DME, I buy in 50lb bags. Your Kit will most likely be using DME if you go over to Northern Brewer or the Likes, you will see the kit. Nothing wrong using LME.
Using DME or LME allows you to omit having to have that larger pot 10g so you could bring the water to 150º with your 9lbs of grain to then add it to some device to hold that temp for an hour all while being able to stir it.
You will be using a large pot because most recipes start with boiling 3gal, and we get larger to avoid boil overs, hence 7gal prob at least a 5gal will get you.
I am being very loose with the terms and instructions, but allowing you to wrap your head around it. That DME or LME is a concentrate from a large supplier who has been doing for a 100yrs like Breiss. The dry out the result of that 9lb boil on a grand scale, package it and send it to.
You can do comparative economics to include the time, cost, etc.

To close, I suggest you head over to Northern Brewer buy a starter package partial extract with a little grain for flavor you will see or ask for help over there, if you can buy it less the Pot, find a good pot, decide on 7g or 10g, I promise you will use that pot the rest of your life, so buy a good stainless pot. You do NOT need a Secondary Fermentor, that is old way of doing it and not suggested by most here unless you are trying to do some fancy type brew and leaving for 6 months.

Go buy enough beer to last you a month, (2 cases good bottles like Sam A or Sierra N) that is the secret to good beer. Leave it alone, make it, let it set at a 68º temp if you can, 2weeks (I let mine get to 78º and have had fine beer) Then you can measure Final Gravity (another word) and bottle or keg.

Most bottle. Those beers you been drinking while waiting... those are going to be cleaned in Oxywash REAL GOOD, like surgery real good, because those are what you are going to bottle in.

SO in your kit you should have a Pot, (to cook) fermentor (with spigot), with airlock and bung, ie., bottling bucket, (to transfer after ferment, this could be skipped but you will be gingerly stirring your priming sugar atop your yeast cake) bottles #54, capper ie, caps ie, Hydrometer (to measure SG & FG), Cooking thermometer ie, length of hose (to attach to spigot and cane), bottling wand/cane (this is for filling bottles), Star San (for sanitizing) Gloves. Your Brew Kit of ingredients.

Watch some videos, come here for help BEFORE YOU BREW with any questions, we answer fast over here. Enjoy.

wort is the solution of the extracted starches converted to fermentable sugars from the grains
sparge is the action of rinsing the grains of the fermentable sugars.
watching youtubes are sometimes bad advice. Ive watched people do home improvements of their own projects and I think to myself hes lucky hes not on a jobsite or hed be run off by breaktime or that would never pass inspection. Theres a world of shortcuts out there and not enough of this is HOW YOU DO IT. Best advice is know HOW TO DO IT RIGHT before trying to make shortcuts.

 

[Soulshine2]

Hey everyone! So I’m fresh outta college and I wanna pick up the art of brewing after I get back from vacation. Other than reading some books and listening to some podcasts, I’m a total rookie to homebrewing. I feel like i have a decent handle on things, but I realize once I get to brewing I’ll probably feel quite lost. I was wondering whether people think it’s smart to go all-grain from the get go?

I realize that it’s more expensive (thinking BIAB) and it’s far easier to get a bad final product, but I think I would enjoy challenging myself and having more control over my beer. Just looking for some thoughts from fellow beer geeks . Much love and thanks for reading my post!

pick up a copy of the Joy of Homebrewing . Plenty of solid info at your fingertips to get started and enjoy this hobby.

 

[Bubbles2]

And there is the guy I was mentioning with the caps yelling... about sparge and wort. LOL

 

[Velnerj]

This is how I started and I have no regrets. Completely self taught and have had only a batch or two that didn't turn out. Glad I never wasted time or money on extract or kit brewing.

 

[brewbama]

The problem with most newer home brewers’ recipes is the kitchen sink approach. Most well crafted recipes have a well focused recipe vs everything in the cupboard.

 

[mattdee1]

I'm the kind of person who would rather make a sauce from scratch than buy a can of it, just as much for the satisfaction of it as for the quality of the result. So, when I decided I wanted to try my hand at home brewing, extract was out of the question on principle alone. I read "How to Brew" cover to cover before buying a single piece of gear. I ended up putting together the classic propane/kettle/plastic bucket/fridge/STC-1000 setup that I still use to this day, over 40 brews later. The very first one (a stout) turned out very well.

Eventually, around 25 brews in, I was in a position where I wanted to turn around a bunch of beers quickly so I did 4 or 5 extract batches - my first ones ever - using both liquid and dry extract, with and without steeped grains. Those beers were "OK" but… let's just say that I'm a full believer in the phenomenon of "extract twang." It's just not the same. You always hear about how people have brewed "award winning" beers using extract, but let's be honest… these awards are happening in spite of the extract, not because of it.

Still, I think starting with extract is a very reasonable thing to do, especially if budget/space are a concern or one wants to get up and going very quickly to see if they enjoy it. I'd just say that if that's the way you're going, make sure to actually learn about the process when doing it rather than just following a cook book approach from a Mr. Beer kit or whatever. Try to question and understand why every step of the process is there, why it matters, etc. That's one of the things about starting with all-grain… it kind of urges you to understand the process better rather than just doing a bunch of dance steps to get beer. After all, if the first thing you do is pour boiling water over poorly crushed malt, you're not going to get very far.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I was wondering whether people think it’s smart to go all-grain from the get go?

My 2 cents is, it's totally personal preference and your comfort level. Neither way is dumb no matter what anyone says. I got a cheap starter kit to start out that came with an extract brew, and did a couple more extract kits after that then went BIAB on my 4th or 5th batch. I was a little overwhelmed my very first brew trying to follow the directions even with just extract so I'm happy I did it that way. I still use alot of the stuff from my cheap starter kit. The kettle is still my main brew kettle, and the buckets store stuff like sanitizer.

When I went all-grain I moved to smaller 2.5-3 gallon batches so I could still brew in my kitchen in the 5 gallon kettle. I started kegging and doing closed transfers around batch 8. Got into water chemistry around batch 10. Started using liquid yeast and starters around batch 15. Started fermenting in kegs around batch 20.

What I'm trying to say is, everyone moves at their own pace so just try to figure out what yours is and don't worry about following anyone else's.

 

[JPDosey]

FWIW....Get palmers book "how to brew" great for ref.....learn the basics with extract kits. Then move into all grain.

 

[bleme]

I would also suggest getting involved with a club. My club has several members who will invite a newbie to their brew day to watch (and help clean up ). My club members also get huge discounts on grain.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/community/clubs/find-a-homebrew-club/

 

[S-Met]

I'm the kind of person who would rather make a sauce from scratch than buy a can of it, just as much for the satisfaction of it as for the quality of the result. So, when I decided I wanted to try my hand at home brewing, extract was out of the question on principle alone.

I question which "principle" you are referring?
While I mostly agree with your above statements, I do have to provide an opposing view.
Do you always make your own ketchup from fresh raw ingredients?
Mayonnaise?
Fish sauce?
Mustard?
Hot sauces?
Marina from fresh tomatoes?
Mill your own flour?
Soup stocks starting from bones/veggies...?
Make your own utensils?
Forge your own steel for your kettles?
Blow your own beer glasses?
I know some of these arguments are extreme (and slippery slope fallacy), but for the sake of example, do you sometimes take a shortcut with a premade?

Point being, I have a lot of friends who love a good beer but many have minimal interest in brewing. So refreshing my original post in this thread, there is no wrong answer regarding extract or AG to brew or begin brewing. But ask yourself the following:
What do you hope to achieve?
What is your available time commitment?
What are you willing to invest?
What other commitments do you have that could create conflict?
How much space do you have to permanently commit?

If I were a new brewer starting from scratch with limited personal support, I would question how much I am willing to invest into a hobby that I may not continue. Dropping a grand or more on a setup used once is only nice to the guy buying it for a few hundred off of Craigslist.

 

[kh54s10]

Point being, I have a lot of friends who love a good beer but many have minimal interest in brewing. So refreshing my original post in this thread, there is no wrong answer regarding extract or AG to brew or begin brewing. But ask yourself the following:
What do you hope to achieve?
What is your available time commitment?
What are you willing to invest?
What other commitments do you have that could create conflict?
How much space do you have to permanently commit?

If I were a new brewer starting from scratch with limited personal support, I would question how much I am willing to invest into a hobby that I may not continue. Dropping a grand or more on a setup used once is only nice to the guy buying it for a few hundred off of Craigslist.

With BIAB, you could argue that because grain is cheaper than extract it is possible to SAVE money going straight to all grain. There is more involved but it is not so complicated that someone shouldn't do it.

If someone wanted to go straight to all grain they would have to take a different approach than a person buying a simple equipment kit and an extract recipe kit. There would have to be some study and research prior to brew day if any success was to be expected, but certainly a doable situation.

 

[mongoose33]

<snip>

If I were a new brewer starting from scratch with limited personal support, I would question how much I am willing to invest into a hobby that I may not continue. Dropping a grand or more on a setup used once is only nice to the guy buying it for a few hundred off of Craigslist.

This was my conundrum starting out--just how much did I want to "invest" in this brewing hobby? I look back and wish I'd made a bunch of different choices, in retrospect, but who knew?

I think it's also been easier to build this up over the last 4 years than it would have been to just drop thousands on it from the beginning.

And yet....I think there was a lot of learning that occurred since I wasn't using top-dollar equipment. I had to learn the processes in a more basic fashion, and I think that helped. It certainly has helped me to see what things were useful to upgrade, and which less so. Is there value starting at ground zero and building up? I think there was for me.

 

[mattdee1]

I question which "principle" you are referring?

Fair question. For me, the "principle" would apply to:

- things about which I am enthusiastic (e.g. beer and food)
- things that are not basic staples or household commodities (e.g., mustard, ketchup, mayo, flour, utensils). I realize these things are not commodities to everybody but they are to me.
- things where a more rigorous/laborious process provides opportunities for a wider range of results that can be personally tailored to what I want (e.g., all grain brewing instead of extract, homemade sauces instead of canned, coffee from fresh beans rather than Folgers crystals)

If the point of threads like this is to provide viewpoints for consideration by newcomers, then the nuances of the decision need to be made clear. Extract is easier and carries with it a lower cost of entry; this is indisputable. It also uses up much less time, which was the factor that compelled me to try it out on multiple occasions. That doesn't mean it's necessarily the right answer just because somebody is a noob on a budget. All-grain has lots of advantages over extract in terms of what can be done with it, and it is entirely possible to successfully jump into brewing at the all-grain level with a little bit of up front preparation. This shouldn't be glossed over.

 

[OG-wan Kenobi]

Moving from extract to all grain was the most significant thing I ever did to change the quality of my beer. Extract 90% of the time had a twang to it that all grain does not.
Try a 1 gallon kit you will know right away if this hobby is for you or not.

 

[jack13]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with starting with extract, or even being a permanent extract brewer. But since you specifically said you're up for the challenge of going all-grain right away, I say go for it. It's what I did, not even by choice--just worked out that way. But I didn't end up regretting it for any reason.

I seriously doubt you'll keep messing up AG batches (especially with the research you've done including on this forum) and have to go to extract with your tail between your legs. Based on your posts it sounds much more likely that you'll learn very quickly doing AG.

 

[kh54s10]

I personally find it strange, the number of people who say that all grain will definitely make better beer. That has not held true in my experience. I prefer making all grain, but my extracts, is less good, suffered a very, very small difference. I still rate the second beer I made, a Northern Brewer Patersbier extract kit, among my 10 best. In fact I made it in all grain also and to the best of my recollection, a couple years apart, there was not perceptible difference.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

Nothing back from the OP yet? Do you have a home brew shop near you? Talk to them if you do. Buy Palmers book too. What are your expectations around a brew day? Are you ready to dive right into a 4+ hour brew day if you go AG not knowing if you are doing any of the steps right?

Starting with extract isn't as sexy as all grain but you'll still get good beer and a good base knowledge of really important things. Extract will allow you to focus on cleaning, sanitizing, transferring, fermenting, gravity readings, racking, bottling etc ( I know I'm missing other aspects). All of these things lay a great foundation that can be carried over to all grain which if you stick with the hobby will make your AG beer better right out of the gate. K.I.S.S.

I think us folk that have been brewing a long time forget what its like to be a complete noob and not know anything.

Even if you go simple AG brewing like BIAB there are still many things that you have to worry about. Who is going to crush your grain? If you buy it precrushed and it shows up poorly crushed what then? Mash temps, pH, hitting numbers and OG, full boils - most stoves can't boil 6.5 gallons, cooling the full batch etc. All things to consider before going AG

I'd cast my vote for extract with specialty grains using distilled water. If you decide to stick with it you can use the same equipment for extract that you use for AG. Just plan ahead with pot size.

 

[kh54s10]

Nothing back from the OP yet? Do you have a home brew shop near you? Talk to them if you do. Buy Palmers book too. What are your expectations around a brew day? Are you ready to dive right into a 4+ hour brew day if you go AG not knowing if you are doing any of the steps right?

Starting with extract isn't as sexy as all grain but you'll still get good beer and a good base knowledge of really important things. Extract will allow you to focus on cleaning, sanitizing, transferring, fermenting, gravity readings, racking, bottling etc ( I know I'm missing other aspects). All of these things lay a great foundation that can be carried over to all grain which if you stick with the hobby will make your AG beer better right out of the gate. K.I.S.S.

I think us folk that have been brewing a long time forget what its like to be a complete noob and not know anything.

Even if you go simple AG brewing like BIAB there are still many things that you have to worry about. Who is going to crush your grain? If you buy it precrushed and it shows up poorly crushed what then? Mash temps, pH, hitting numbers and OG, full boils - most stoves can't boil 6.5 gallons, cooling the full batch etc. All things to consider before going AG

I'd cast my vote for extract with specialty grains using distilled water. If you decide to stick with it you can use the same equipment for extract that you use for AG. Just plan ahead with pot size.

For someone like me, who did a little reading, bought an equipment kit and an ingredient kit. Yes, I would say keep it simple. The original post showed that he already has done a lot more research than most. If someone studies and has a grasp on the process of all grain there is no reason to K.I.S.S.

With BIAB and spring water, it would be almost as easy to brew an all grain beer as an extract. Crush is not a huge concern, efficiency can come later, Mash temperature should be covered already in his research, pH is also a next step. I brewed for 8 years before taking a pH reading (on my last batch) All it told me was that my additions to my RO water was good as is. Hitting numbers and OG are not a great concern right off the bat, Boil would also be covered in his research. Cooling - many options including doing nothing but waiting for the temperature to fall.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

@kh54s10 I agree with most of what you stated. I feel the less variables there are, the greater the chance of success.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

... I read "How to Brew" cover to cover before buying a single piece of gear. ...

For those who have yet to read the 3rd (2006) or 4th (2016) edition of "How To Brew", chapter one is written so that one can read just chapter one and start brewing.

And AHA good overview information on various brewing techniques here: https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/
No need to read a 600 page book before brewing one's first batch.

 

[ericbw]

Fair question. For me, the "principle" would apply to:

- things about which I am enthusiastic (e.g. beer and food)
- things that are not basic staples or household commodities (e.g., mustard, ketchup, mayo, flour, utensils). I realize these things are not commodities to everybody but they are to me.
- things where a more rigorous/laborious process provides opportunities for a wider range of results that can be personally tailored to what I want (e.g., all grain brewing instead of extract, homemade sauces instead of canned, coffee from fresh beans rather than Folgers crystals)

If the point of threads like this is to provide viewpoints for consideration by newcomers, then the nuances of the decision need to be made clear. Extract is easier and carries with it a lower cost of entry; this is indisputable. It also uses up much less time, which was the factor that compelled me to try it out on multiple occasions. That doesn't mean it's necessarily the right answer just because somebody is a noob on a budget. All-grain has lots of advantages over extract in terms of what can be done with it, and it is entirely possible to successfully jump into brewing at the all-grain level with a little bit of up front preparation. This shouldn't be glossed over.

I think you mean “preference,” not principle. You prefer to use grain.