Robobrew regrets?

[Fidelity101]

I did try to mash in with 4 gallons of water and 13 pounds of grain but that didn't go well. I ended up adding another 1.25 gallons (5.25 total) in order to get all the grain wet. It was also a huge PITA to get the water to circulate so I went back to 6.09 gallons in the mash tun.

That makes sense that halfway down that mash pipe, we're loosing liquid that didn't have a chance to push to the bottom. I'd be curious to see just how much liquid works it's way out that way.

I think efficiency can really be dropped if/when you constantly stir vs. allowing the grain bed to set. I noticed on this latest round that the grain bed dropped a good 3" from start to finish.

I also noticed in the instructions that we're suppose to push the pipe as far down as possible so the metal fitting at the top sits flush with the top metal cover. I've never actually tried that as I leave the malt pipe in the locked position (where the indent is on the lower pipe) so to kappy's point, I wonder if that opening is causing liquid to flow through the pipe vs. the grain.

 

[Jag75]

I wonder if your malt pipe is different then the pipe on the Gf. Mixing your grain during mash wont negatively effect your efficiency. In the sparge it will because your allowing water to go right through . There are little tabs on the Gf top screen that I try and keep the water level at . If your pouring water ontop and its draining almost as fast as you pour it that's a problem.

 

[RePete]

I did try to mash in with 4 gallons of water and 13 pounds of grain but that didn't go well. I ended up adding another 1.25 gallons (5.25 total) in order to get all the grain wet. It was also a huge PITA to get the water to circulate so I went back to 6.09 gallons in the mash tun.

That makes sense that halfway down that mash pipe, we're loosing liquid that didn't have a chance to push to the bottom. I'd be curious to see just how much liquid works it's way out that way.

I think efficiency can really be dropped if/when you constantly stir vs. allowing the grain bed to set. I noticed on this latest round that the grain bed dropped a good 3" from start to finish.

I also noticed in the instructions that we're suppose to push the pipe as far down as possible so the metal fitting at the top sits flush with the top metal cover. I've never actually tried that as I leave the malt pipe in the locked position (where the indent is on the lower pipe) so to kappy's point, I wonder if that opening is causing liquid to flow through the pipe vs. the grain.

Most of my batches are at least close to that much grain. Yesterday’s was 11lbs., and 4 gallons seems to be plenty most of the time. I’ve done a few that are more like 15-16 lbs, and have had to add more for those. So, I don’t know...

There is no indentation on the lower pipe of mine. It’s smooth. I push it down as they say in the instructions. The pipe is there to not let the pump remove too much liquid from the heating elements, and scorch the wort if the basket doesn't draining. So you don’t want it too high. Then I close the valve on the recirculation arm so the pump is moving just enough liquid to cover the mash, but not so much that it is flowing down the pipe.

 

[rjhoff]

I’ve been brewing on the Robobrew for 35+ batches over 2.5 years and achieving efficiency has been my biggest challenge but I’ve been able to reach 72%+. I believe the tall / narrow aspect of the malt pipe leads to circulation problems. Here is a list of things I’ve done along the way in the mash:

1) Use the neoprene jacket
2) Monitor mash-in temp and take steps if its not close to target (more an issue in the winter as my basement temp is low 60s); don’t start the mash timer until you’re at temp.
3) Set your Mash temperature for 2 degrees higher than target mash temp, this seems to keep me at target once I’ve achieved the temp After mash-in.
4) Always recirculate using the pump. I adjust flow and cycle pump on/off so that I never use the overflow. I’ve added a silicon tube to the overflow so I can do 16 lb grain bills.
5) If you have poor recirculation then stir the mash say every 15 mins. I rarely use the top screen.
6) I re-gapped my mill to .038” from .039” factory setting and have learned to do two pass on grain from a local maltster who’s requires .034“ or less.

My sparge is simple, I have 4 gallons in the HLT but only use what’s needed to get my pre-boil volume, using a silicon sight tube off my dump valve and preset at start of brew day.

I finally am more consistent, since I’m doing 5) and 6)...

 

[user 272106]

I'm 12 brews in on mine. The neoprene jacket is a must if you don't have it. I now double-crush the hell out of my grain similar to what BIAB people do and I've yet to have a stuck mash despite being warned I'd have problems.

Regarding circulation, a couple of my first brews I had it recirculating too fast and caused channeling, resulting in poor sparges and bad efficiency.

I always use the top screen and try to keep the re-circulation to a minimum but just enough so there's a small layer of liquid on top of the grain. Usually do a 90 minute mash with a good stir at 45 in case I did a poor job mashing in, but don't touch it after that. During sparge, I replace the overflow piece and with the rubber cap back over the malt pipe so no sparge water goes directly through.

Generally speaking, I've gotten better efficiency with thinner mashes and using lactic acid to adjust PH lower (I aim for 5.3). I don't measure gravity before sparging. I just care to get ~7.2 gallons pre-boil and if I don't hit my numbers, so be it. Generally hitting 80% mash eff. on my normal 12-lb grain bills now according to beersmith. Once I go 13+ lbs. in this thing though, efficiency starts to tank.

The one issue I do have is a slow leak somewhere (I think in the pump). When liquid is below 80f, it leaks somewhere in the bottom. This happens when I first put my water in and then again once wort is fully cooled. During mash and at end of boil when I turn it on, it doesn't leak. Its like a gasket or something is expanding and shrinking causing a problem.

Also, can't throw pellet hops directly in. Plugs the pump every time. Hop socks for me.

 

[rjhoff]

I’m tracking with that although not sure I reach 80% too often, maybe range 72-75% - most of my beers are 13-16 lb grain though. I have no issues with leaks. I always use a hop spider...

 

[RePete]

I’m tracking with that although not sure I reach 80% too often, maybe range 72-75% - most of my beers are 13-16 lb grain though. I have no issues with leaks. I always use a hop spider...

What is the heaviest grain bill you have done? I've done 16lbs, and thought that might be about the limit. Haven't tried extending the center pipe with tubing though. I have plans to brew a Russian Imperial Stout, and the grain bill is around 20lbs total. I may need to scale down the recipe for 4 gallons instead of 5.

 

[rjhoff]

What is the heaviest grain bill you have done? I've done 16lbs, and thought that might be about the limit. Haven't tried extending the center pipe with tubing though. I have plans to brew a Russian Imperial Stout, and the grain bill is around 20lbs total. I may need to scale down the recipe for 4 gallons instead of 5.

I've done up to 16.5 lbs but am most comfortable at 16. I tried a 4 gallon yield once, now I sub DME for some of the base malt on my highest gravity recipes. I just brewed a Barleywine with 16 lb grain and 2 lb DME plus I've done a hop slam clone with similar ratio. Besides extending the center tube I also duct tape the mash handle holes. I hate to let grain float into the kettle! I'm still debating the imperial stout, will probably try one after I do a lower gravity oatmeal stout.

 

[RePete]

Yeah. I may go the DME route. Or, I still have my old cooler mash tun. I’ve just been using it to hold sparge water. But I could mash in that and then drain into the Robobrew to boil.

At any rate, this is one of the limitations of the unit. It’s difficult to do big beers. At least 5 gallon batches.

 

[rjhoff]

Yeah. I may go the DME route. Or, I still have my old cooler mash tun. I’ve just been using it to hold sparge water. But I could mash in that and then drain into the Robobrew to boil.

At any rate, this is one of the limitations of the unit. It’s difficult to do big beers. At least 5 gallon batches.

Yeah, hence the 65L version (came long after I bought my unit). I'm pleased with the DME on the hop slam clone, will do it again for sure. My barleywine is still aging...

 

[Fidelity101]

I switched things up a bit and made a batch of Soulless Hop IPA from Morebeer. OG was suppose to be 1.060-1.065 and I hit 1.064 with the Brewzilla 35L. My efficiency’s are finally where they should be and the only changes I made were:
1.) Stir the grain in really well and add it slowly. Once you stop stirring it, leave it alone! Stirring the mash again (like 20 minutes into the mash) seems to loosen the grain bed and lows efficiency.
2.) Start lautering 20 minutes after mash in. This gives the grain bed a chance to settle. The grain bed will drop several inches so I push the pipe down before I start lautering.

Small changes I know, and I’m sure some will disagree with me, but these two simple changes have improved my efficiency from 58% to 75% and they’re litterally the only two things I’ve done differently between the last 8 batches.

 

[rjhoff]

Also consider that you changed your grain bill - different grain bills can change efficiencies. Not saying you're wrong, but it can be a factor in my experience.

Recirculation is a key indicator for me as I can tell at the start of mash if I’m going to have a problem as it’s impacted by grain bill makeup and total weight. I turn the pump on and restrict the flow valve so there’s no overflow. Sometimes I have to cycle the pump off/on if the recirculation is really poor - that’s when I stir the mash, but only every 15 mins. Given the geometry of the mash pipe, I believe the mash compacts quickly, so I don’t stir for the last 15 minutes of mash and during the 20 minute mash-out before lifting the pipe.

As noted before, I’m crushing at .038 which seems to work ok for me except on smaller grains like rye (still churning on that solution). I’m not too comfortable lowering that by too much more as it slows recirculation. Early on I was adding rice hulls to all my batches, but I’ve since stopped and now am adding only to recipes that have really bad recirculation.

For me this has been a long process and ongoing. I brewed a new DIPA recipe over the weekend And came up 2 points shy on my pre-boil SG plus I had an extra 1/2 gallon of wort, so I added 10 mins to my boil (SWAG), kind of made sense - ended up right at target OG. My mash efficiency sucked though. Never ends...

Also dial in your pre boil volume. For me, Beersmith calculates my pre-boil and I’m learning that I need to hit that number spot on: too little and I don’t fill my keg, too much and my pre boil SG drops. That’s what I use a sight tube to set that level as you can’t see your volume with the RB setup.

 

[RePete]

Also dial in your pre boil volume. For me, Beersmith calculates my pre-boil and I’m learning that I need to hit that number spot on: too little and I don’t fill my keg, too much and my pre boil SG drops. That’s what I use a sight tube to set that level as you can’t see your volume with the RB setup.

What are you using for a sight tube?

 

[rjhoff]

It's pretty crude but it works. Silicon tubing, it's a pain to describe, so I took a picture. There's a ring marked near the top of the tube - I put the pre-boil volume in the Robobrew and adjust the ring to the pre-boil level. Then I adjust the water for mash-in and heat it up.

 

[RePete]

Thanks. May have to try that.

 

[Oldpaddy]

Hi guys, I did my first brew last week and I almost had a stuck sparge in my 35L. It took a long time for it to drain. I wonder if I milled my grain too fine. I set the mill a hair under .5. I used a credit card to set the gap so the card was held, but the roller would still move with it. Think it was still too fine of a mill, should I make it a little courser?
Thanks

 

[rjhoff]

Is that .5mm?, that would be .020”?? I’m using .038”, thinking about lowering to .037. Some people go as low as .030 but I’m not buying into that (yet).

EDIT: buy a feeler guage set, I got a nice new one at Harbor Freight for like $2

 

[RePete]

Hi guys, I did my first brew last week and I almost had a stuck sparge in my 35L. It took a long time for it to drain. I wonder if I milled my grain too fine. I set the mill a hair under .5. I used a credit card to set the gap so the card was held, but the roller would still move with it. Think it was still too fine of a mill, should I make it a little courser?
Thanks

My mill has markings at .050 and .025. I tried one batch set with a credit card, and had a stuck large. I have set it half way between those recently, but think I will back it off some more. It will drain, but is dreadfully slow. Personally, I think people are too concerned about efficiency. I would rather just add a little more grain, and enjoy the process. We aren’t doing this to make a living. This is a hobby after all...

 

[Oldpaddy]

My mill has markings at .050 and .025. I tried one batch set with a credit card, and had a stuck large. I have set it half way between those recently, but think I will back it off some more. It will drain, but is dreadfully slow. Personally, I think people are too concerned about efficiency. I would rather just add a little more grain, and enjoy the process. We aren’t doing this to make a living. This is a hobby after all...

I have the evil twin mill and it goes .05 to .025. I tried to get the cereal killer, but getting what you want seems to be a thing of the past. I actually wanted to get the anvil foundry, but once again, getting what you want appears to be a relic of a simpler time.
I was having fun until the almost stuck splarge. Being my first time it's never fun not knowing exactly what you're doing and having problems. Then I had too much wort and had to boil it down an extra hour. I'm not really sure why I had extra wort, I followed the directions that came with the Austin kit. Oh well.
Next brew I'll try a courser mill setting and see what happens.
Despite my pissing and moaning, I can't wait to try my ale and for the next brew!

 

[rjhoff]

I started a new thread, Robobrew/Brewzilla discussion, for no other reason than I have no regrets

 

[RePete]

I started a new thread, Robobrew/Brewzilla discussion, for no other reason than I have no regrets

Yeah. Overall I really like mine, and would buy it again. It has made brewing more enjoyable. There is a learning curve, and limitations, but it's a good system.

 

[rjhoff]

Yeah. Overall I really like mine, and would buy it again. It has made brewing more enjoyable. There is a learning curve, and limitations, but it's a good system.

I checked with Williams Brewing, I don't think they were aware of it but said to expect availability in the fall or early winter.

 

[user 272106]

Regrets? The quality control.

I think I complained earlier in this thread about the pump and how weak it was and it leaking, not to mention how easily it clogs. Well, the first picture shows it all ... they put the tube on facing the wrong direct ion and then twisted it to fit. Even brews with incredibly little hopping (saison) would clog with all hops in a spider or hop sock. You can see some nasty wort stain on the tubing as well as marks on the steel where it leaks along the side.

I fixed this, but the leak still remains. I'm horrified by the type of clamps used given the electrical down there. They seem incredibly weak and don't really appear to have enough pressure to guarantee a seal. Dangerous if you ask me but I'm no expert.

Video of leak: Leaking Robobrew Brewzilla 3.1


Its hard to say what exactly the issue is here outside of the terrible installation of that tubing, but I'll be requesting some type of replacement given the leak and I've only had it since early this year.

 

[rjhoff]

Sorry to hear you’re having a problem. I’ve not experienced a leak although I noticed how tight the hose was when I replaced my circuit boards. Probably a workmanship issue for sure. As far as plugging the pump, it’s happened to me a couple times and I learned early on not to let any grain overflow the malt pipe and I always use a hop spider.

 

[RePete]

I had a clogged pump. It was after adding hops at flameout. I was able to blow them out with an air compressor. It would probably be good to do as regular maintenance. Cleared them right out, and I had full flow after that.

 

[user 272106]

I just got done replacing the clamps to see if that would fix the leak. It did not. I think the stress of the twisted tubing on the inlet stressed the pump and there's probably a hairline crack in it somewhere. I'll have to pull it to inspect. Either way, I'll be contacting KegLand with a warranty claim tomorrow. The good news is the the pump is working at 2-3 times the flow rate after I re-installed the tube correctly which give me hope for using the whirlpool arm effectively. Hopefully I can get a new pump and can be on my happy way. I do like the overall convenience of this unit.

 

[rjhoff]

Good luck with that - $55 part

https://www.williamsbrewing.com/Hom...-Machines/Brewzilla/Robobrew-Replacement-Pump
I‘ll probably do an inspection, maybe recirculate PBW solution through it for a while.

 

[user 272106]

I clean with PBW and recirculate after every brew. Doesn't everyone?

As for the part, whatever is the issue better be covered by warranty. At minimum there was an assembly issue and I've only had it since early this year. The replacement pump is $83.99 CDN here at OBK where I bought the whole unit. Considering the whole unit was $449 CDN, I find the replacement part prices insane.

If the smaller spike solo gear ever gets released and are available here, I'll be considering a switch to that.

Cheers.

 

[rjhoff]

Yes, PBW after every brew, but I’m thinking run the elements and recirculate hot for 30 mins. Good luck with your warranty...

 

[RePete]

I just partially fill it with clean water, and run the pump for a little while. Seems to have worked fine. It clogged once, but it was obvious why. I had thrown loose pellets in, and there was a pile of them on the bottom after draining. After letting it dry, I blew compressed air into the out tube, and a bunch of hops blew out.