Robobrew/Brewzilla Discussion

[403Brewer]

For those of you that switched from a more traditional AG system (for me...cooler, pot for heating sparge water, boil kettle, gas burner) to a brewzilla or similar AIO system, what gear were you able to purge from your set up? It looks like an AIO will certainly simplify and maybe speed up brew day, but for me storage and cleaning are the biggest issues I have...and for me to justify the upgrade just wanted to see if anyone was able to get rid of a bunch of stuff or if most of your older gear still remains in service? I'd imagine I can get rid of the boil kettle/burnder/mash cooler and just keep a 3 gal pot for stove heating my sparge water.

Also, in terms of brew day, was anyone able to cut their time down or spread it out easier with an AIO? The way I see it is I can likely get water and system ready night before, heat the mash water when it works...brew as usual over a few hours and transfer. I was wondering if anyone saw some time savings with a different cleaning regime with the AIO or if that remained about the same? CIP or leaving BZ overnight with PBW or something? Along with the small house I have 2 little kids, so time is also a bit of a premium!

Thanks for any input, buying a BZ gen 4 is likely my target, and the cost doesn't really put me off, its more am I spending money for no real tangible upgrade.

 

[Sammy86]

see if anyone was able to get rid of a bunch of stuff or if most of your older gear still remains in service?

So I tried selling my old BK/Cooler mash tun set up and nobody bought it so it sits in a plastic bin my basement. I still bring up the old cooler with ball valve just in case the pump get clogged but hasn't happened in about a year. Long story short I don't use my old set up at all.

Also, in terms of brew day, was anyone able to cut their time down or spread it out easier with an AIO?

The biggest time saver for me is setting up the night before. My strike water is ready to go at 6 AM and I'm mashed in by 6:30. I have three kids (6 and twin almost 3 yo) so while the mash is going i can help get them up if they are awake...we were lucky this summer as all three slept until 8!

I'm usually done brewing and transferring by 11-11:30. Pitch yeast, fill the Brewzilla will water and PBW and let it run while I help with lunch and nap time. When I get back around 1:30 i dump water and put everything away.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

For those of you that switched from a more traditional AG system (for me...cooler, pot for heating sparge water, boil kettle, gas burner) to a brewzilla or similar AIO system, what gear were you able to purge from your set up? It looks like an AIO will certainly simplify and maybe speed up brew day, but for me storage and cleaning are the biggest issues I have...and for me to justify the upgrade just wanted to see if anyone was able to get rid of a bunch of stuff or if most of your older gear still remains in service? I'd imagine I can get rid of the boil kettle/burnder/mash cooler and just keep a 3 gal pot for stove heating my sparge water.

Also, in terms of brew day, was anyone able to cut their time down or spread it out easier with an AIO? The way I see it is I can likely get water and system ready night before, heat the mash water when it works...brew as usual over a few hours and transfer. I was wondering if anyone saw some time savings with a different cleaning regime with the AIO or if that remained about the same? CIP or leaving BZ overnight with PBW or something? Along with the small house I have 2 little kids, so time is also a bit of a premium!

Thanks for any input, buying a BZ gen 4 is likely my target, and the cost doesn't really put me off, its more am I spending money for no real tangible upgrade.

I'm planning to get rid of two 10-gallon insulated coolers that I used for mashing - they take up a lot of room. I can't get rid of my boil kettle since I purchased a 110v Brewzilla. It's fine in the late Spring, Summer and early Fall, but will be inadequate for our very cold winters (I brew outdoors). Thus during the Winter months I plan to use the Brewzilla for mashing purposes only, and drain the wort to my boil kettle and heat it over a propane burner. Thus I cannot get rid of my boil kettle.

 

[403Brewer]

I'm planning to get rid of two 10-gallon insulated coolers that I used for mashing - they take up a lot of room. I can't get rid of my boil kettle since I purchased a 110v Brewzilla. It's fine in the late Spring, Summer and early Fall, but will be inadequate for our very cold winters (I brew outdoors). Thus during the Winter months I plan to use the Brewzilla for mashing purposes only, and drain the wort to my boil kettle and heat it over a propane burner. Thus I cannot get rid of my boil kettle.

That's actually a pretty good call, I'm in Canada so I'll also be dealing with cold winters, I like the idea of brewing indoors but not sure if I can make that a reality, so hanging onto the kettle and burner for a while will likely be the path I will take. Like you I have a 10 & 5 gal cooler that I'd like to get rid of, huge space takers and likely no need for them going forward.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

That's actually a pretty good call, I'm in Canada so I'll also be dealing with cold winters, I like the idea of brewing indoors but not sure if I can make that a reality, so hanging onto the kettle and burner for a while will likely be the path I will take. Like you I have a 10 & 5 gal cooler that I'd like to get rid of, huge space takers and likely no need for them going forward.

Brewing indoors is not an option for me. My stove has one of those fake vents - no vent to outside, it only blows the steam back into the kitchen. However, mashing doesn't produce enough steam to worry about, so I will mash inside with the Brewzilla during the winter and boil outside in the garage over a propane burner.

There is a steam condenser hood you can get for the Brewzilla, so you can use it indoors without needing a vent, but it is expensive, and uses a lot of water. It's hard enough to justify the water usage when wort chilling, so to add to it by condensing does not seem ethical. Also, rather than starting to chill the wort immediately after I turn off the heat, I now wait until the wort chills naturally in the air to about 160 F before using the chiller. There's no worry about bacteria infection at that temperature (anything over about 140 F is safe). It saves a lot of water, and doesn't take that much extra time. I use that time to add flavour hops for about 20-30 minutes. This greatly improves the flavour of the beer, much better than adding hops at 10-20 minutes left in the boil, which causes many of the aromas to boil off.

 

[DuncB]

@Bottoms_Up
Look here at condenser.
Much cheaper.

 

[GoodTruble]

Well, in my campaign to make every Brewzilla mistake, I hit another (particularly tricky) milestone - I stepped away for too long and managed to leave the grain in so long that even the 120v 35L hit 200F before I caught it.

To be clear, the 120v heats so slowly that you usually have a very generous window to get the grain out. I just had too many things pop up in that roughly 1 hour window. It still had 15 minutes of programmed mashing at 150 and and 20 at 159 when I left - but I guess I was gone a bit over an hour. I'm thinking maybe it actually heats faster if the hot grains are still in.

Oh well, it's a red ale, so the additional astringency may not be too bad of factor. Will see.

 

[cactusgarrett]

Consider it a quasi-decoction. If your pH was in order, you'll be fine.

 

[theredviper]

On the topic of 120V Brewzillas, can you brew outdoors with the 35L/120V version when it's cooler out? I'm not talking deep freeze but spring or fall mornings when it's maybe 5C/40F out.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

Well, in my campaign to make every Brewzilla mistake, I hit another (particularly tricky) milestone - I stepped away for too long and managed to leave the grain in so long that even the 120v 35L hit 200F before I caught it.

To be clear, the 120v heats so slowly that you usually have a very generous window to get the grain out. I just had too many things pop up in that roughly 1 hour window. It still had 15 minutes of programmed mashing at 150 and and 20 at 159 when I left - but I guess I was gone a bit over an hour. I'm thinking maybe it actually heats faster if the hot grains are still in.

Oh well, it's a red ale, so the additional astringency may not be too bad of factor. Will see.

In only one hour, with a 120 Volt system, the temperature rose to 200F??? What was the ambient temperature?

 

[DuncB]

How well was the wort recirculating? If there isn't much flow the bottom temp gauge can read significantly higher than the grain bed.

 

[GoodTruble]

68F ambient, but it was already at 150F when that hour started. Well into the mash.

And I think you could brew outside at 40F with the 120v - IF you have the insulation sleeve.

The the recirculation was at about half speed.

 

[rootAndBoom]

On the topic of 120V Brewzillas, can you brew outdoors with the 35L/120V version when it's cooler out? I'm not talking deep freeze but spring or fall mornings when it's maybe 5C/40F out.

I do this with the neoprene jacket. As long as you're OK with slightly extended heating time and a gentle boil it works out.

 

[CUSTOM-441]

Question for the thread... Beersmith and/or Brewfather, what mash tun deadspace are you using for the 35L unit?

I'm making the switch to Brewfather and noticed it assumes a deadspace of 1.7gal on the Robobrew profile, which is likely correct, but I've always run 0 deadspace in Beersmith. It doesn't affect the total water volume, but the mash volume is 1.7gal higher with the deadspace. This makes sense, but other than maybe a handful of stuck mashes I've hardly ever had issues mashing with 0 deadspace on the profile.

 

[DuncB]

I never measured the headspace on my 35 but 3litres per kg put me in ballpark.
Then changed to a 70 litre all in one and brewfather. I then measured the deadspace and used that in my equipment profile.

It's a consistency whereas grain and desired mash thickness is a variable.

 

[Sammy86]

I use 0 on Beersmith and when I transitioned to Brewers Friend haven't had any issues. Everything is right on the money.

 

[GoodTruble]

Well, I finally managed to have a boil over even WITH the boiler extender. It was just some foamy mess pushing up through the center hole of the lid, not much, but it was at least a proof of concept warning that it can be done (if you walk away for 60-90 minutes). The wort was only about 6 gallons, so that was like 5-6 gallons of foam. =c)

 

[Teufelhunde]

Well, I finally managed to have a boil over even WITH the boiler extender. It was just some foamy mess pushing up through the center hole of the lid, not much, but it was at least a proof of concept warning that it can be done (if you walk away for 60-90 minutes). The wort was only about 6 gallons, so that was like 5-6 gallons of foam. =c)

Fermcap S added at the beginning of boil....2 drops per gallon....no more problem....

 

[earachemyeye69]

So I started measuring mash temp with a insta read and the delta between it and the Brewzilla temp is about 10c. I’ve made 25 or more batches, never paid attention to it and my beers come out fine but……. Should I be be concerned with my mash profile being too low? Does anyone use offsets to try and reach higher temps in the malt pipe or just rely on the brewery set point temp?

Gen4 65l. Previous batches on a Gen3.1 35l that’s now used as an expensive HLT

 

[rootAndBoom]

So I started measuring mash temp with a insta read and the delta between it and the Brewzilla temp is about 10c. I’ve made 25 or more batches, never paid attention to it and my beers come out fine but……. Should I be be concerned with my mash profile being too low? Does anyone use offsets to try and reach higher temps in the malt pipe or just rely on the brewery set point temp?

Gen4 65l. Previous batches on a Gen3.1 35l that’s now used as an expensive HLT

I understand that this is a pretty common issue for several all-in-one systems. For me, I've found that stirring the mash regularly and doing some amount of recirculating helps to keep the temperature consistent throughout the mash.

 

[Teufelhunde]

I understand that this is a pretty common issue for several all-in-one systems. For me, I've found that stirring the mash regularly and doing some amount of recirculating helps to keep the temperature consistent throughout the mash.

This has been my experience with my 3.1.1. I recirculate for the entire mash and when I measure the wort coming out of the recirc tube with and instant read (which is accurate to withing 1 degree with boiling water(205 at my altitude)), and it is 2 degrees higher than the reading on the control panel (the sensor is off to the side in the bottom). So to my way of thinking, if the wort at the bottom is at my set temp and the wort being dumped on the top of the grist is 2 degrees higher, then the entire grist should be between the two, so should be good to go...although it may be cooling a bit as it winds it's way down through the grain, hence the need for the elements to kick on occasionally to raise the temp a bit.

YMMV

Lon

 

[Bassaholic]

Forgive me if this has been asked/answered already. I’m looking to upgrade the chiller that came with the unit. I’m looking at the CuSs brewing all in one chiller or possibly a CFC. I’m sick of running water for 20-30 minutes to cool to pitching temps.

I’ve never used a CFC, but they sound like a good option for larger batches. I currently have the 35L and don’t plan on upgrading n the near future. Is it a pain to run through an CFC back into the kettle? I brew a lot of IPAs and cool down a bit before the whirlpool.

For the CuSs chiller I like that it had threaded hose attachments so I don’t have to worry about tightening the worm clamps and watching for leaks. It seems like it would be efficient enough to cool down 10 gallon batches quickly if I ever decided to upgrade to a larger system.

Are there any downsides to one or the other that I’m not thinking of?

 

[Wayne1]

I have a 65L Brewzilla. I use the SS Exchilerator with a whirlpool arm from Brewhardware.com. I run a hose with camlocks from the Brewzilla to the CFC and then another from the CFC to the Whirlpool arm. I also use camlocks to connect to the house cold water. I use the pump in the Brewzilla to push wort through the CFC and run the cold water back into the CFC. I get a very good whirlpool and can drop temp in the wort to 170F within 10 min.

After the whirlpool hops are finished soaking, I then run off through the CFC into my fermenters. With the Exchilerator I can get wort temps down to within 5 degrees F of the cold water temp in a single pass.

Cleaning may be considered a downside. I try to keep 1-3 gallons of PBW around. Save your cooling water and add PBW to it. Put it in a keg and then use that to flush out the CFC. Rinse it out with tap water after afterwards.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01G305PK0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1This is the pump I bought years ago, used for a few batches and wound up upgrading. It was a great little pump. Did everything I needed it to (recirculate mash, pump wort through CFC, you name it).

I've been looking for a little pump like that, but I notice the maximum temperature is only 131 F. I wonder if there's on similar to that that can handle temperatures of up to about 175 F? Or even 160 F?

 

[Bottoms_Up]

I had heard that the minimum batch aize that can be made on a 35 liter Brewzilla Gen 4 is 5 liters. According to my calculations, if one were to do a single infusion mash, the minimum size should actually be about 3 liters, not 5 liters. I think the 5 liter batch might apply to the 65 liter Brewzilla since it has a larger diameter.

So yesterday I put my theory to practice and brewed a 3 liter batch (post boil size). Here is a summary of my experience.

I used an assumed Brewhouse Efficiency of 65%, which was a lucky guess, and I hit all my targets, resulting in a post-boil batch of 3.0 liters at a S.G. of 1.040, exactly as calculated.

Thus 3.0 liters is indeed the minimum batch size for the 35 liter Brewzilla.

As noted above, I did a single infusion sparge, which is the only possible way of doing a minimum 3 liter batch.

The only thing I messed up (but it still worked without issue) is that I forgot to add the pipe. Thus the mash was done in the larger container with the single screen. Since there was no pipe to lift in order to let the grains drain, I used the pump to pull out the wort from under the screen. Again, this did not result in any issue, and did not clog the pump, since it was a such small batch of grain.

Everything went smoothly, according to plan. The only thing that was a little tricky, was maintaining a constant mash temperature. I used an Inkbird meat temperature probe with a long metallic lead (5 feet long!) and inserted the probe in the mash. I used this temperature to adjust the mash temperature as needed (Note that this a very practical and inexpensive $30-$40 alternative to using the much more expensive Rapt temperature probe whenever it becomes available in North America). I found that the difference between the temperature reported by Brewzilla and the probe throughout the mash was about 5 or 6 degrees F (oddly the Brewzilla reported the lower temperature). Thus make sure that you set the Brewzilla target temperature about 5 or 6 F lower than the mash temperature you want.

By constantly adjusting the target temperature, I was able to keep the mash temperature between about 148 F and 152 F, for the duration of the 60 minute mash, which is not bad for such a small mash.

Next time I plan to set the Heatign hysteresis setting to 1.0 F rather than the preset value of 1.8 F, and keep the power level at about 40%. I think that should result in a more stable temperature.

 

[cactusgarrett]

I did a single infusion sparge, which is the only possible way of doing a minimum 3 liter batch.

Wouldn't you be able to go lower if you did a no-sparge mash? You'd have a good working mash density (above the recoverable deadspace/false bottom) via more liquid while collecting less in the end overall, and have the added bonus of less potential to pump the deadspace dry. I'd have to crunch numbers to confirm.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

Wouldn't you be able to go lower if you did a no-sparge mash? You'd have a good working mash density (above the recoverable deadspace/false bottom) via more liquid while collecting less in the end overall, and have the added bonus of less potential to pump the deadspace dry. I'd have to crunch numbers to confirm.

Sorry for the terminology. With the additional volume under the pipe screen to account for, it is difficult to define the difference between single infusion and no-sparge. By single infusion, I meant to imply a no-sparge - I included the "sparge" water amount as the volume as the volume immediately under the screen of the pipe (the so-called "deadspace", again the wrong terminology - we need a new word), which I measured as 2.7 liters. The water above the screen is what the grain floats in.

It seems that when many calculate their water-to-grain ratio, they forget about this additional 2.7 liters. The water-to-grain ratio should be calculated first and THEN the 2.7 liters of water should be added to the amount. This amount is then reduced from any sparge amount that is used afterwards.

In this particular case, there was no sparge afterwards, so the amount in the "deadpace" was equal to the normal sparge amount.

 

[Sammy86]

Not trying to start trouble but seems like the new 4.0 is having some issues...needless to say im happy with my 3.11 at this moment!

 

[mng8r]

Not trying to start trouble but seems like the new 4.0 is having some issues...needless to say im happy with my 3.11 at this moment!

Yep, some issues as noted in the Gen 4 thread. I'm going to be requesting to return mine. This is the second one I've returned in the past couple of weeks. I thought the Gen 4 would be an improvement in brewing over my current DigiBoil with mashing unit. Boy was I wrong.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

Yep, some issues as noted in the Gen 4 thread. I'm going to be requesting to return mine. This is the second one I've returned in the past couple of weeks. I thought the Gen 4 would be an improvement in brewing over my current DigiBoil with mashing unit. Boy was I wrong.

Yep, there are definitely some issues with the Gen 4 - this applies to at least "some" of the machines shipped out west. Kegland staff don't believe this because few people have the nerve to complain. They are also supported by many users who don't check it out carefully enough, and seem unwilling to "complain". Today, "complain" is a negative word that most users don't seem to want to use.

However, in truth, "Complain" = "Improvement". NOT negativity! What a revelation!

 

[Grond]

Yep, some issues as noted in the Gen 4 thread. I'm going to be requesting to return mine. This is the second one I've returned in the past couple of weeks. I thought the Gen 4 would be an improvement in brewing over my current DigiBoil with mashing unit. Boy was I wrong!

What are the issues people are having?

 

[mng8r]

What are the issues people are having?

So as to not derail this thread and duplicate what has been posted in the Gen 4 thread, it may be best to review or checkout the separate Gen 4 thread.

 

[DuncB]

This is gen 4 thread at seven pages so far.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/brewzilla-gen4-discussion-tips-talk.702436/Lots of issues from temp control, stuck mashes etc

 

[speavler]

sorry but that thread looks like total amateur hour. people rely way too much on automation.

 

[cactusgarrett]

sorry but that thread looks like total amateur hour. people rely way too much on automation.

To be fair, that's kind of the point of these all-in-one systems: easier to get the lesser experienced into the hobby. Do, then learn why. Very similar to Traeger pellet smokers vs true offset wood smokers.

 

[Sammy86]

Well fellow brewers, I'm brewing again tomorrow. 12 gallon split batch of German Pils and Kolsch. Very excited to try Diamond Lager yeast instead of my go to 34/70.

Hope y'all had a great holiday!

 

[jtrainer]

I agree to disagree...

sorry but that thread looks like total amateur hour. people rely way too much on automation.

You are right, 20 + years ago we had no automation. Dials and knobs, watching the flame... We built our rigs and rebuilt them to solve issues and learned from our mistakes. Learned what worked for Denny, Drew, may not work for my setup... That said, there is now high reliance and expectation on turnkey automation.

To be fair, that's kind of the point of these all-in-one systems: easier to get the lesser experienced into the hobby. Do, then learn why. Very similar to Traeger pellet smokers vs true offset wood smokers.

Still have to agree to disagree here. Simpler setup, sure. Maybe those entering the hobby need a stronger learning curve than just expectations from some marketing video. Years ago the BIAB idea was poo-pooed on due to lower efficiency discussions. Obviously, the simpler setup has improved greatly, now leading to some more precision temp control. My 3-vessel rig has 4 temp probes in the mash tun and 1 more in the valve. All data points to me, the brewer. I'm stepping down from a 2-barrel 3-vessel rig using propane to the 35L BZ4 and not for automation (that is a side benefit for my inner geekiness).

As for the Traeger comment... you are close on that one. Personally, I kept my stick burner, barrel, and green egg gave up the propane grill, and bought the GMG Pellet. I almost exclusively use the GMG for regular cooking because it's faster, semi-automated, and easy not to mention the family now understands how to use it if I'm not around. But if I want a better BBQ, I uncover the stick burner and load up the red bull for the extra-long multi-hour cooks for the neighbors. The barrel is hardcore and ready to cook lots of meat and the grn egg after 9 years I'm still figuring it out.

I will say this when brewing 2 Barrels of beer with the boyz & cooking the post-brewing ribs/pork shoulder... that made a very long day.

 

[GoodTruble]

I realize this thread is mostly abandoned now and replaced by 12-13 Gen 4 threads that mostly rehash the same info, tips, etc. =c)

But I wanted to post some Gen 3-specific info I learned during my last brew. I have mostly abandoned the malt pipe entirely. For me, it's easier to just biab, and the extra space that opens up for mashing allows me to get a lot more grain more easily (increasing from a comfortable 13 lbs to 16 lbs).

But because I am adding more grain and skipping the malt pipe, I ordered the heavy duty false bottom for the 3.1.1. I finally used it last weekend but was sadly disappointed. It is certainly strong/sturdy, but I immediately noticed all the sharp edges (like every edge is sharp). As I've done with other kegland products with sharp edges, I filed them a bit to soften the edges, mainly to avoid bag snare/tears. But the real problem I discovered was that the heavy duty false bottom fits the 3.1.1 diameter, but the bottom recirculation pump inlet does not fit on either side of the bottom's support walls. So the bottom will not sit flush on the bottom of the 3.1.1. I went ahead and brewed anyway thinking "close enough" and relying on the bag to contain the grains anyway (which it did). But when I went to clean the brewzilla after brewing, I discovered the sharp edges wobbling around during the brew had left a lot of fairly gnarly scratches on the bottom of the brewzilla.

Too bad. I was really excited about the heavy duty false bottom, but I'll be going back to the dinky stock one with the three feet (to which I added a metal bolt through the middle to give it another weight bearing point in the center). The dinky one deforms a bit with each brew, but works fine to keep the bag off the heating elements. And it doesn't scratch up the unit.

I will look for a good option to adapt the heavy duty false bottom but don't plan to use it again for now.

Also, I do love the volume extension though. I mash almost to the brim of the 3.1.1, and then add the extension after pulling the grains for nearly worry-free boiling. I recommend the extension to anyone even if just for insurance against boil overs.

 

[Henbrew]

I’ve been experimenting with BIAB in my Brewzilla and after crushing my false bottom I added a screw to act as support. Works great! I was able to use a rubber mallet to flatten the crushed false bottom.

 

[Henbrew]

Mistake post