RIMS & HLT wiring Help

[snakerake]

Hi all,

Long time reader, but first post. I was hoping someone on here might take a look at this wiring diagram I have put together for the two tier, one pump system. I've looked at a lot of diagrams on the board for reference, as well as read Kal's PDF/book on the electric brewery, but none exactly what I'm aiming for. In short I am wanting to create a 120V electrical system to power a rims tube and heat sparge water in my Keggle HLT. My MLT is a cooler that holds temperature very well, so I don't imagine I'll need the full power of a 240V element.

To avoid dry firing the heating elements, the pump must be on before power will flow to the RIMS tube. I'm trying to keep my cost down on this build so I tried to keep the features as lean as possible.


Anyone care to take a look? I want to be as safe as possible. Thanks in advance!

 

[stlbeer]

Right off the bat - congrats for undertaking this for yourself. A person learns a lot this way.

Regarding your schematic, the pilot lights you have for your HLT and RIMS are not wired correctly. If they are 120v lights then they will need a hot and a neutral. Have 2 wires coming out of the switch, one to the outlet for the element and the other one to the light. Then have a wire from the other side of the light to neutral. Like you did for the main power light.

I set up my RIMS tube power similar to how you did, and it worked ok. However, a better and easier solution is to use the a maintained DPST switch (Auber SW1?). Have the pump power on one set of poles and the SSR control circuit on the other. As I recall, those switches are rated for 10A, so be careful to not exceed that.

It's possible I missed something else, but that's what I see for now.

 

[snakerake]

Thanks stlbeer,

Ah yes. Rookie mistake on the lights I guess.

The double pole switch is an interesting idea, my concern though is if i wanted to run the pump solo( not hooked to the rims), like to filter water or beer would that turn the element on as well? Creating a dry fire... Or do the pids have an off function.( I'm in possession of both but never had them plugged in to play with.)

 

[stlbeer]

Thanks stlbeer,

Ah yes. Rookie mistake on the lights I guess.

The double pole switch is an interesting idea, my concern though is if i wanted to run the pump solo( not hooked to the rims), like to filter water or beer would that turn the element on as well? Creating a dry fire... Or do the pids have an off function.( I'm in possession of both but never had them plugged in to play with.)

Isn't that the reason for the separate switch in your plan - for the RIMS element? Plus you have an outlet, you could always unplug the element if you don't think the switch for the RIMS element is working properly.

My experience is with Auber PIDs - they do not have a separate switch. It is up to the builder to take care of that.

 

[snakerake]

AHHH,

Okay I thought you meant to use the one DPST instead of two switches. Does this look correct now? Again man, thanks for your help I really appreciate it.

 

[stlbeer]

You're almost there.

A DPST switch has 2 sets of on/off posts isolated from each other but both switched with a single lever.

Your pump power configuration is fine. Don't mess with that.

Here is what I suggest:
1) Take your SSR IN power from the RIMS pump switch and connect it directly to the HOT BUS.
2) Take your RIMS PID SSR + line and run it through the second set of on/off posts on the RIMS PUMP switch.
3) Make your HLT and RIMS element switches SPST (single post single throw) switches. They don't need DPST. Connect both element and light to the same post.

That ought to do what you want to do.

Paul

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

My only concern - you're running this at 120v, and I don't see on here where you list what size elements you're going to use. The way you have it set up currently, you could have the RIMS and the HLT on at the same time. Unless you're using comically small heating elements, you're probably going to run into some issues with over-current / too much draw. This will flip breakers or overheat wiring.

My guess is that you plan to only run one element at a time, in wich case you should install a 3-way (ON-OFF-ON) switch instead of the two rocker switches. That way you have to pick either HLT power, OFF, or RIMS power. Of course, if you go that route, you could go with one SSR, and if you got really crafty you could go with only one PID (put a switch in for the RTDs) - but two PIDs wouldn't be a problem.

If your intent is to be able to run both elements at the same time, then take a look at the numbers. What wattage elements are you using? How many amps does that mean you're pulling (AMPS = Watts / Voltage)? What capacity is your breaker? What size wiring do you need to have to handle that capacity breaker / that much amperage? I'd be very surprised if you could run 2 elements full bore on 14ga wiring, along with a pump and 2 PIDs and some LEDs for extra load.

Good job for your first step towards brewing with electrons!

-Kevin

 

[snakerake]

Thanks Paul, That all makes good sense. Does this work now? Thanks again!

Kevin thanks for the feedback. I see your point. I hadn't planned on running both elements full bore at the same time. I have a 5500w 240v element for the RIMS and a 4500W 240v element for the HLT.

I was thinking that that HLT element could be run while the RIMS is in maintenance mode during mashing. I was planning to heat my sparge water on a propane burner then use the Element to keep it at temperature until its time to sparge.

As far as the breaker goes, its all 20 amp. Luckily that outlet is the only thing on that breaker, so I could upgrade it to a higher capacity if I need to.

I read that a 240v element runs at 1/4 of its watts on 120v. is this correct? So the RIMS element wold pull 11.45 amps and the HLT element would pull 9.375 amps.

So it seems I may need to look at some other options for power, any suggestions? I guess I could upgrade the wiring to 30 amp its thats possible. Or I could run one of the elements on a different breaker.

 

[snakerake]

I wanted to give an update if anyone reads this thread later.

I wired this system according to my latest diagram. I installed a heavy duty 15amp cord to run to a plug on a 20 amp breaker. Ive done 3 batches on the system so far an everyting has gone great.

I bring my total volume of water up to temp first in the HLT, which takes about an hour. Once I transfer water to the MLT ( which is a cooler) I cut power to the HLT. The temp of the water drops about 30 degrees when i add it to the MLT. This takes about 30 min to bring back up to temp. When i add grain i loose another 5 degrees. Once the temp in the MLT is correct I switch the HLT back on and both run fine in this temperature "maintenance" mode until its time to sparge. The cord and plug stays cool to the touch so I don't think it drawing too many amps.

I Wired the elements with 240v 3 wire dryer cords and corresponding plugs incase i ever want to increase the system to 240, there wont be as much rewiring. Im really enjoying this system so far. Its made brew day much more enjoyable. I wager I've spent about $500 upgrading to this system using as much of my existing equipment as possible. I think im getting off cheaper than some of the other builds Ive seen.

 

[snakerake]

Oh and I used the HLT to sous vide cook a sirloin tip roast for 36 hours. Best beef Ive ever cooked.

 

[Flomaster]

Legit setup. Just what I'm looking for.
I just purchased a Rims Tube toolbox pump setup. I have an existing pump. I want to now turn my HLT into an electric HLT and BK to remain in natural gas for now. I do have a 240v spaI brew right next to. I'm not sure if I can tap into its power though.

I don't think I'd be running both elements at once at full power.

-=Jason=-