Rice questions

[madman960]

I have not brewed in about 8 years. I have also never used rice. Do you use rice whole or do you grind it? If ground, to flour or just crushed? Would using jasmine or basmatti rice cause off flavors? Both are very aromatic when cooking. Not sure I will ever use rice but thought I would ask anyway.

 

[JDZ]

The rice needs to be pre-gelatinized for the starches to be converted. I've always used Minute Rice and it comes ready to use. I believe you can also cook regular rice before adding it whole to your mash and achieve same results but I've never done this. I would think jasmine or basmatti would taste just fine.

 

[Dgallo]

The rice needs to be pre-gelatinized for the starches to be converted. I've always used Minute Rice and it comes ready to use. I believe you can also cook regular rice before adding it whole to your mash and achieve same results but I've never done this. I would think jasmine or basmatti would taste just fine.

As @JDZ mentioned you’ll need to do a step mash for raw rice. If you don’t want to go through with that you could use ready rice or pre cooked rice.

The easier option would be using rice solids

 

[Lampy]

I have had success with pressure-cooking white rice in an excess of water, then mixing it into my mash with the base malt. With this method it is key to overcook the rice and NOT overfill the pressure cooker (at least if you plan on doing a "quick release" of the pressure).

 

[madman960]

Thank you for all the responses. I may experiment using rice. But I definitely want to try some traditional recipes first and get my process back down.

 

[doug293cz]

As @JDZ mentioned you’ll need to do a step mash for raw rice. If you don’t want to go through with that you could use ready rice or pre cooked rice.

The easier option would be using rice solids

Pre-gelatinization is different than a step mash. If you are brewing with something that has a gelatinization temperature higher than typical mash temps, then you need to cook the ingredient before you put it in the mash. This is usually done at boiling temperatures. The temp rests in a step mash are done within the typical mash temp ranges, or lower if doing protein rests, acid rests, etc., except for the mash-out step (if used.)

Brew on

 

[IslandLizard]

Yeah, preboil (simmer) regular rice in ample water for an hour or longer, until it's complete mush. Then use that watery "rice soup" as part of your strike water.

No need to spend money on little boxes with parboiled (instant) rice.

Same for "flaked corn," it benefits from pre-boiling too.

 

[Bramling Cross]

As @JDZ mentioned you’ll need to do a step mash for raw rice. If you don’t want to go through with that you could use ready rice or pre cooked rice.

The easier option would be using rice solids

Dgallo is top notch brewer, he obviously meant cereal mash. Heaven knows, we've all been there--I sure have!

As a frequent rice user, the rice scene has changed dramatically over the last two years. Our old go to, flaked rice, has become murderously expensive. I had a frank chat with one of my local LHBS owners and he was exasperated with the price of flaked goods, rice included. Current flaked prices shouldn't rival imported Continental base malts.

Nevertheless, here we are.

Fortunately, there's absolutely no difference between flaked rice and minute/instant rice. I get my instant rice at ALDI because it's less than a buck/pound. If you have a COSTCO card, I'll bet you can do even better there.

Regarding preparation, close the gap on your mill to its tightest setting and obliterate your instant rice. There's no point in not turning it into flour, it has no hull and zero lautering value. So it's best to expose it as much as possible. No, you don't need rice hulls. I routinely run 30% rice, or a combination of corn and rice, without hulls on my fly rig. A heavy rice grist will lauter the same as any other grist.

If fact, having committed to obliteration of my rice and the use of corn flour, I see zero evidence that either were ever in the mash while dumping my spent grist. I'm starting to think of them as sugars that require mashing. They're that transparent in the tun.

Lizard is right! Pre-boiling will increase your efficiency. However, I'm growing increasingly confident in thinking that obliterating your rice/corn will get you most of the efficiency with a lot less work. Pick your poison. Reasonable brewers can reasonably disagree on this point. Frankly, I hate dealing with the mash math involved with dumping a volume of boiled adjuncts into my grist with my step-mashing rig. I'm willing to surrender the points for less hassle. Meanwhile, Lizard has the boiled rice working like a greasy machine on his rig. Either technique will make brilliant beer...and it's likely that, when fermented by a third party, neither of us can tell the difference between the two.

Regarding jasmine and basmati: I recently brewed a jasmine rice lager and, for such a flavorful rice, its impact was marginal at best. If I wasn't actively looking for the jasmine rice, I'm not sure I would've noticed a difference. I've never brewed with basmati, but my experience with jasmine suggests that it'll be even more subtle/nonconsequential.

 

[doug293cz]

Dgallo is top notch brewer, he obviously meant cereal mash. Heaven knows, we've all been there--I sure have!

As a frequent rice user, the rice scene has changed dramatically over the last two years. Our old go to, flaked rice, has become murderously expensive. I had a frank chat with one of my local LHBS owners and he was exasperated with the price of flaked goods, rice included. Current flaked prices shouldn't rival imported Continental base malts.

Nevertheless, here we are.

Fortunately, there's absolutely no difference between flaked rice and minute/instant rice. I get my instant rice at ALDI because it's less than a buck/pound. If you have a COSTCO card, I'll bet you can do even better there.

Regarding preparation, close the gap on your mill to its tightest setting and obliterate your instant rice. There's no point in not turning it into flour, it has no hull and zero lautering value. So it's best to expose it as much as possible. No, you don't need rice hulls. I routinely run 30% rice, or a combination of corn and rice, without hulls on my fly rig. A heavy rice grist will lauter the same as any other grist.

Lizard is right! Pre-boiling will increase your efficiency. However, I'm growing increasingly confident in thinking that obliterating your rice/corn will get you most of the efficiency with a lot less work. Pick your poison. Reasonable brewers can reasonably disagree on this point.

Regarding jasmine and basmati: I recently brewed a jasmine rice lager and, for such a flavorful rice, its impact was marginal at best. If I wasn't actively looking for the jasmine rice, I'm not sure I would've noticed a difference. I've never brewed with basmati, but my experience with jasmine suggests that it'll be even more subtle/nonconsequential.

There is a huge difference between regular rice and minute rice. Minute rice has been fully gelatinized and then dried (flaked grains have also been pre-gelatinized.) Drying after gelatinization does not result in as dense a starch structure as in the original rice, so minute rice absorbs water more quickly and at lower temps than raw rice. So, with minute rice you only need to rehydrate rather than do a full gelatinization. Thus minute rice and flaked grains do not need to be pre-cooked (gelatinized) prior to adding to the mash.

Smaller grits (finer crush) always speeds up gelatinization or re-hydration (raw vs minute) as water absorption starts at the surface of the grits and proceeds towards the center. So, the smaller the grits, the sooner the water reaches the center of the grits, and the quicker the gelatinization or re-hydration completes.

Brew on

 

[z-bob]

Goto an Asian market and you can find bags of broken jasmine rice. It's a little cheaper than unbroken rice, and it work great for brewing. (I also like if for eating) But it will have to be cooked to use it in the mash. When I brew with it I use about a pound or pound and a half, and I simmer it in a gallon of the strike water until it's overcooked and mushy.

 

[Dgallo]

Dgallo is top notch brewer, he obviously meant cereal mash. Heaven knows, we've all been there--I sure have!

haha freudian slip

 

[t^3]

Thank you all for this thread! I have been wanting to brew a lager with rice and this has answered my questions. Does anyone care to share a good Japanese style lager recipe?

 

[z-bob]

Thank you all for this thread! I have been wanting to brew a lager with rice and this has answered my questions. Does anyone care to share a good Japanese style lager recipe?

Do the Japanese actually use rice in their good beers, or do Westerners just assume they do? When I brewed a Japanese-inspired beer, I used about 70% pilsner, 25% jasmine rice, and 5% Munich (maybe it was Vienna, I don't remember), with Sorachi Ace hops. No idea if there was anything authentic about it, but it tasted good.

 

[mac_1103]

Do the Japanese actually use rice in their good beers, or do Westerners just assume they do?

Apparently, Japanese rice lager is a real thing. But I'm not sure any of them are actually made in Japan.

 

[Bramling Cross]

There is a huge difference between regular rice and minute rice. Minute rice has been fully gelatinized and then dried (flaked grains have also been pre-gelatinized.) Drying after gelatinization does not result in as dense a starch structure as in the original rice, so minute rice absorbs water more quickly and at lower temps than raw rice. So, with minute rice you only need to rehydrate rather than do a full gelatinization. Thus minute rice and flaked grains do not need to be pre-cooked (gelatinized) prior to adding to the mash.

Smaller grits (finer crush) always speeds up gelatinization or re-hydration (raw vs minute) as water absorption starts at the surface of the grits and proceeds towards the center. So, the smaller the grits, the sooner the water reaches the center of the grits, and the quicker the gelatinization or re-hydration completes.

Brew on

I apologize if my post was poorly written. Having re-read my post, I'm quite certain that I wrote that there's no difference between instant rice and flaked. As you correctly state, non-instant/flaked rice is a whole different ballgame.

I apologize for any confusion.