There's plenty of discussion about the use of rice hulls to successfully prevent stuck mashes, especially with wheat and oats, etc. But what about their use in the boil kettle to prevent the sticking/plugging during the transfer of wort to the fermenter (e.g. in plate chillers or hop stoppers), especially when using lots of hot-side hops commando style? Would they provide the same benefit in increasing permeability through the hops/trub, or would they simply get all gunked up too?
Rice hulls for boil kettle
- Thread starter Gozie Boy
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i don't do it myself....but correct me if i'm wrong, isn't that why people "whirl pool"? like molecular gravity and stuff, clumps it in the center?
(and i like rph_guy's suggestion....actualy when i was working with a woman that had a hop growing farmer family from idaho, i had so much hops, i used them in my mash INSTEAD of hulls! and yeah i tried to marry her, no luck....lol)
(and i like rph_guy's suggestion....actualy when i was working with a woman that had a hop growing farmer family from idaho, i had so much hops, i used them in my mash INSTEAD of hulls! and yeah i tried to marry her, no luck....lol)
I don't even want to think about a pc crammed with rice hulls...
Not my intent at all. I was thinking of using them in conjunction with a Hop Blocker. They would never reach the chiller.
Well, you did write "in plate chillers or hop stoppers".
Anyway, if you already have a Hop Blocker, does it not work as advertised?
Cheers!
Anyway, if you already have a Hop Blocker, does it not work as advertised?
Cheers!
I think adding more inert material will only serve to make the Hop Blocker live up to its name...
The real solution to the problem is finding a way to not pick up solid material at all.
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As far as rice hulls in the boil my general rule is not to have any type of grain in the boil as it may cause flavor, aroma, or clarity issues in the finished beer. I have in the past used rice hulls in the mash however care is needed to not use too much because it may result to a quick run off during sparging. Little Less than 1 lb. rice hulls per 14 pounds of grain works for me if I use rice hulls.
Boil kettle: Trub and hop material can settle to the bottom if you chill (even just to around 110 to 140 degrees) within 15-20 minutes prior to transfer. I use an immersion chill coil fed by cold water from hose. I also have a runoff tube that goes to the center of the kettle very close to the bottom. That helps prevent larger particles to a greater degree from exiting the kettle. Adding whirlpooling to bring everything to the center of the bottom. 10 minutes of whirlpooling (I use a dril and a whirlpool blade that fits on it so I can get good whirlpool action and my arm doesn't get tired!). The last recommendation is transfer rate: Transferring the beer too quickly may pick up more trub and send it to the fermenter. My transfer rate is just enough for the beer to flow from kettle through hop strainer to fermenter. This minimizes disturbing the trub in the kettle.
Even with all that there is still going to be a chance of getting some suspended material into the fermenter. I highly recommend conical fermenters as the have a dump port at the bottom of the cone so you can dump the trub/yeast/hop material at it settles at the bottom of the cone at set intervals during fermentation (mine is initially after two days, then once per day. The dump is about one pint per day). Your beer quality can significantly go up using a conical
Happy brewing!
Boil kettle: Trub and hop material can settle to the bottom if you chill (even just to around 110 to 140 degrees) within 15-20 minutes prior to transfer. I use an immersion chill coil fed by cold water from hose. I also have a runoff tube that goes to the center of the kettle very close to the bottom. That helps prevent larger particles to a greater degree from exiting the kettle. Adding whirlpooling to bring everything to the center of the bottom. 10 minutes of whirlpooling (I use a dril and a whirlpool blade that fits on it so I can get good whirlpool action and my arm doesn't get tired!). The last recommendation is transfer rate: Transferring the beer too quickly may pick up more trub and send it to the fermenter. My transfer rate is just enough for the beer to flow from kettle through hop strainer to fermenter. This minimizes disturbing the trub in the kettle.
Even with all that there is still going to be a chance of getting some suspended material into the fermenter. I highly recommend conical fermenters as the have a dump port at the bottom of the cone so you can dump the trub/yeast/hop material at it settles at the bottom of the cone at set intervals during fermentation (mine is initially after two days, then once per day. The dump is about one pint per day). Your beer quality can significantly go up using a conical
Happy brewing!
Ok, I was a little vague with my language. I meant sticking the plate chiller (if transferring directly from kettle through the chiller) or sticking the hop blocker (if trying to use one of those).
More background. I have always used a hop spider and with good results vis-a-vis transfer issues. But I finally got up the courage to try commando hopping in the BK given the generally positive comments about its improved hop performance. Given that I also use a Therminator, I was concerned about plugging it during transfer and so I invested in a HopBlocker2. I tested it in water beforehand, and all was good. But after my boil, I attempted the transfer and -- you guessed it -- BOOM, no flow, not even a drop. I opened the transfer pump valve very slowly, knowing that high rates can be a problem for HB2 plugging, but I never got to any significant rate and it still plugged. It wa a real PITA to then manually move my wort from the 20 gal. BK into my fermenter, and hopefully the product was salvaged (will know more in about a week).
So I am about to brew again in a couple days and was searching for ways to avoid a repeat disaster. One thing I will try is cutting a larger "notch" on the discharge port's dip tube, and the idea of some rice hulls was another thought. May be a dumb idea, but thought I might find someone who had tried this, since you can usually find info about almost every good and less-than-good idea on HBT.
I could ditch the HB2, and go only with the whirlpool, which I have used before but only in conjunction with the hop spider. Those efforts still allowed some trub/hops material to get into the transfer stream, but the amounts were small enough that I never had a problem. I was not as confident about the whirlpool efficacy when dropping lots of hops straight in the boil without a spider.
So do those of you who go commando with a fairly heavy hop load (say, for a DIPA), and use a whirlpool find this sufficient to prevent plate chiller plugging? I'm also still interested in knowing if anyone has tried or heard of using some rice hulls to allow better flow through a hop blocker or similar screening device for transfer out of the BK.
I think adding more inert material will only serve to make the Hop Blocker live up to its name...
The real solution to the problem is finding a way to not pick up solid material at all.
First point: Hulls can help keep a false bottom from plugging in the MT when using wheat, oats, etc. I appreciate that trub/hops material is quite different than MT material, and thus hulls may not be able to provide the same type of permeability enhancement, which is why I am looking for any experience with this.
Second point: Agree 100%! Wish I could use something like a HB and whirlpooling, but an additional (3rd) port wouild be needed, since you cannot perform whirlpooling if you have your lower dip tube connected to the inside of the HB2. Plus you would then be coning up material on top of half or more of the HB. Spiders work, but then we don't have free floating hops!
+1 on conical. I have a CF10, and love it. My problem, however, is upstream from there. Also agree on rate, and try to manage this. By using a pc, a slow transfer rate also provides a lower arrival temp in the conical.As far as rice hulls in the boil my general rule is not to have any type of grain in the boil as it may cause flavor, aroma, or clarity issues in the finished beer. I have in the past used rice hulls in the mash however care is needed to not use too much because it may result to a quick run off during sparging. Little Less than 1 lb. rice hulls per 14 pounds of grain works for me if I use rice hulls.
Boil kettle: Trub and hop material can settle to the bottom if you chill (even just to around 110 to 140 degrees) within 15-20 minutes prior to transfer. I use an immersion chill coil fed by cold water from hose. I also have a runoff tube that goes to the center of the kettle very close to the bottom. That helps prevent larger particles to a greater degree from exiting the kettle. Adding whirlpooling to bring everything to the center of the bottom. 10 minutes of whirlpooling (I use a dril and a whirlpool blade that fits on it so I can get good whirlpool action and my arm doesn't get tired!). The last recommendation is transfer rate: Transferring the beer too quickly may pick up more trub and send it to the fermenter. My transfer rate is just enough for the beer to flow from kettle through hop strainer to fermenter. This minimizes disturbing the trub in the kettle.
Even with all that there is still going to be a chance of getting some suspended material into the fermenter. I highly recommend conical fermenters as the have a dump port at the bottom of the cone so you can dump the trub/yeast/hop material at it settles at the bottom of the cone at set intervals during fermentation (mine is initially after two days, then once per day. The dump is about one pint per day). Your beer quality can significantly go up using a conical
Happy brewing!
I'm a little dense at times, and not quite sure I understand your "runoff tube that goes to the center of the kettle very close to the bottom" comment and how that works with your whirlpool process, maybe since I don't use an immersion chiller.
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Here is an example of the runoff tube:
the end of the tube is very close to the bottom of the kettle. It can block larger material to some degree.
Here is an example of the chiller:
It connects to a garden hose. Water passes through the coils and cools the wort based on the ambient temp of the water. That is not cool enough for pitching yeast so I do have a second step to finishing cooling wort - but that is a different topic. I then remove the chiller and whirlpool. I do have to watch out for the runoff tube however it has not been much of an issue.
Cheers!
the end of the tube is very close to the bottom of the kettle. It can block larger material to some degree.Here is an example of the chiller:
It connects to a garden hose. Water passes through the coils and cools the wort based on the ambient temp of the water. That is not cool enough for pitching yeast so I do have a second step to finishing cooling wort - but that is a different topic. I then remove the chiller and whirlpool. I do have to watch out for the runoff tube however it has not been much of an issue.Cheers!
VikeMan
It ain't all burritos and strippers, my friend.
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Rice hulls keep the grain bed itself from compacting to the point of stopping wort flow. I don't think they do anything at all for false bottoms.
OK, looks like a terminology issue, as I think of this as a dip tube. I assume you use this runoff tube for draining the kettle. If so, and its inlet is located at the center of the bk as you mentioned, then how does this work with your whirlpool, which piles up the garbage at the center? The pictured tube looks like one which picks up near the perimeter of the kettle. And if the tube inlet is very close to the bottom, doesn't that increase trub/hop pickup (i.e. 1) increases the inlet velocity of fluid at the bottom of the tank, and 2) is closer to the dropped out material)? Sorry, not trying to be picky, simply trying to ensure I understand what you're doing.
Agree the plugging mechanisms and flow paths through a MT grain bed and BK hop debris are quite different, so I don't have any unrealistic expectations that hulls would work for this issue. But thought it to be an interesting question to ask. I suppose that if it did work, we would have heard about those results. I'll bet big that it's been tried.
Only because I've yet to read a single instance of it being done here on HBT, I think that's a risky bet
Cheers!
Cheers!
The problem is that the surface area of a hop blocker is minuscule compared to that of a false bottom. Having more material pile up against it IMHO can only lead to a difficult-to-clear blockage. On top of that hot-break and hop debris have a completely different makeup than milled grain which will probably keep the hulls from working at all as the space between them will probably fill up with gunk in no time.
If you want to prevent hop & other debris (trub) from plugging up your plate chiller you might consider filling a Hop rocket with rice hulls and placing it between your pump and the chiller.
