Reviewing the fundamentals... Check my process, please?

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luckybeagle

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Hey all, I've been brewing for about four years now and have fallen into a routine. Sometimes routines are good, but other times you end up practicing the wrong thing over and over! I was hoping a few folks could comment on my process to identify any major flaws and to check my thinking on my processes:

I have a 15 gallon, 3 vessel system with a HERMS coil in my HLT. I use a 5500w heating element in my HLT and a 5500w element in my boil kettle. It's controlled by an Auber Cube 2E, and I run two food grade pumps.

Water:
  • I fill up my HLT with plain old tap water and do not use this for any other purpose than to provide temperature for the HERMS coil
  • 4 stage RO filtration system. I add the full amount needed for brew day to my MLT and build the appropriate water profile.
Mash:
  • Begin recirculation within the HLT for temperature consistency (water drains from lower ball valve, passes over an in-line temperature probe hooked up to the controller, goes through the pump and returns to the top of the HLT to create temperature stability
  • MLT goes from tun to pump, to HERMS coil inlet at the bottom of the HLT to HERMS coil outlet at the top of the HLT, back to the MLT via a silicone tube that lays on top of the grain bed. This is nearly identical to Kal's method.
  • I set the temperature controller to 2F above my target grain bed temperature to account for temp loss and begin recirculating.
  • Once temperature is reached, I take freshly crushed grain and add it to the MLT. I recirculate for anywhere from 1 to 4 hours, depending on how busy I am. My mash temp is always a little lower than my target since I'm doing a single infusion, no sparge, constantly recirculated mash.
  • After the mash, I drain the full contents of the mash tun into the boil kettle and reach my preboil volume.
Boil:
  • I boil at about 55-70% power depending on batch size and ambient conditions, and reach a rolling boil quickly.
  • All hops are added to a hop rocket.
Chill:
  • During the last 15 minutes of the boil, I hook up my plate chiller to the pump an begin pumping the boiling wort through it to sterilize it and back into the boil kettle. I do not have the water supply running through the plate chiller at this point
  • At knockout, I shut off the heating element and turn on the cold water supply. This creates a whirlpool that simultaneously chills in the boil kettle. I have a temperature probe on my plate chiller outlet line to let me know when I've reached pitching temp.
Transfer to Fermenter:
  • I disconnect the return to the boil kettle once pitching temperature is reached and begin pumping the chilled wort into a sanitized Fermzilla, creating a lot of splish-splash in the process (I do not yet use oxygen). The fermenter then goes in to an Inkbird-controlled chest freezer, where I follow style-specific fermentation schedules. I almost always use a spunding valve with the pressure set to as low as I can get it. I then do a closed transfer to a keg when it's finished and put it on tap.
NOTES AND CONSIDERATIONS:

*My process is based on time saving measures. I have 2 young kids and can't dedicate 4-5 hours' worth of attention to my system at a time. I usually mash during naptime and begin my xfer to the boil kettle once the kids go to bed. My cumulative hands-on time in the garage is probably about an hour, with the remainder of the brew day spent inside with the fam'.

*I almost never boil for longer than 60 minutes, even with all Pilsner Malt batches based on the exBEERiments showing that modern, modified pilsner malts don't produce DMS like they used to.

*My chilling method allows me to step away and not babysit the flow through the plate chiller. I usually fire it up and go inside for 15-20 minutes.

*I can fly or batch sparge, and I know it's more cost-effective to, but single infusion/no sparge requires no babysitting, and I'm content with my consistent 80% efficiency with this method.

------

What do you all think? Can you see anything in my process or thinking that is flawed and might result in poorer beer quality? I tried to make timesaving adjustments that wouldn't affect the end product or couldn't be compensated with by more grain, etc. Thoughts?

Thanks for reading!
 

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luckybeagle

luckybeagle

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I should also add that I hit my preboil and OG gravities within tight tolerances, and adjust water levels and hop additions on the fly as necessary. I use liquid yeast and always make starters (except for Hefeweizen or very low ABV beers). Thanks!
 

DBhomebrew

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1 - Anything about the beers themselves you find lacking?

2 - Anything in your process that is a pain to do? Wish it was easier?

3 - Anything in your process you wish required less money? Time?

While fixing 2 or 3, might it create a new #1? Only one way to find out. Best to make one change each time so you can easily judge the change's effect on what matters: your net enjoyment.

Feeling of Satisfaction While Drinking HB - (Effort + Expense) = Net Enjoyment

[1] - ( [2] + [3] )

Start with 1.
 
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Velnerj

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To be honest looks all good to me. The only thing I'll add/inquire about is hop additions. Have you found using a hop rocket affects hop utilization? Also when do you usually add your hops? Most brewers now days do a bittering addition at the beginning and only an aroma/flavor addition at whirlpool temps at th end. I've found this to be a best practice. On those same lines dry hopping for short periods at cold crashing temperature seems to work very well. What do you usually do?

Do you cold crash or fine with gelatine? How's your beer clarity? What's your process like?
 
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luckybeagle

luckybeagle

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1 - Anything about the beers themselves you find lacking?

2 - Anything in your process that is a pain to do? Wish it was easier?

3 - Anything in your process you wish required less money? Time?

While fixing 2 or 3, might it create a new #1? Only one way to find out. Best to make one change each time so you can easily judge the change's effect on what matters: your net enjoyment.

Feeling of Satisfaction While Drinking HB - (Effort + Expense) = Net Enjoyment

But, you know that.
That all does make sense. I've brewed a few beers lately that just haven't turned out fantastic. I had two hefeweizens taste "industrial," like with a motor oil quality, and a couple beers that have turned out just really mediocre. Wondering if that's more a yeast pitch issue than anything else, though.

I guess one thing I'm curious about is whether there are any known issues with single infusion, no sparge mashing, with all of the brew water built to a specific water profile? I know fly spargers usually sparge with RO, but every drop of my brewing water is adjusted for my target profile.

1. Sometimes they just taste dull and muted, and underwhelming in flavor. Sort of like when a macro brewer attempts something like a porter--you can tell it's a porter, but it's not a good example of it. I'm wondering if this is a pH problem and that my wort is sometimes too alkaline (I've not been measuring, but try to match my brewing water profile with the style to account for malts that may swing the pH in one direction or the other). All my grains are new and milled fresh on brew day, so I don't think I'm dealing with a staling issue.

2. Not really. I like being able to step away from my system rather than tweaking it endlessly on brew day which is why I brew the way I do. I've tried to take shortcuts or optimize automation in ways that save time without impacting the end product. I just often wonder if my process (long mashes, single infusion, no sparge, one water profile, etc etc) deviates too far from normal procedure that I'm selling myself shorter than just a reduced mash efficiency.

3. Cleaning, but there's no real way of getting around that! Might buy a stainless conical in the future to make this easier--I don't know how much I trust the Fermzillas, and sometimes I don't clean them out for a week or two after transferring due to limited time. I suppose that could also have an effect? They get the Oxiclean Free treatment with hot water, followed by starsan, when I need them.
 

DBhomebrew

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That all does make sense. I've brewed a few beers lately that just haven't turned out fantastic. I had two hefeweizens taste "industrial," like with a motor oil quality, and a couple beers that have turned out just really mediocre. Wondering if that's more a yeast pitch issue than anything else, though.

I guess one thing I'm curious about is whether there are any known issues with single infusion, no sparge mashing, with all of the brew water built to a specific water profile? I know fly spargers usually sparge with RO, but every drop of my brewing water is adjusted for my target profile.

1. Sometimes they just taste dull and muted, and underwhelming in flavor. Sort of like when a macro brewer attempts something like a porter--you can tell it's a porter, but it's not a good example of it. I'm wondering if this is a pH problem and that my wort is sometimes too alkaline (I've not been measuring, but try to match my brewing water profile with the style to account for malts that may swing the pH in one direction or the other). All my grains are new and milled fresh on brew day, so I don't think I'm dealing with a staling issue.

2. Not really. I like being able to step away from my system rather than tweaking it endlessly on brew day which is why I brew the way I do. I've tried to take shortcuts or optimize automation in ways that save time without impacting the end product. I just often wonder if my process (long mashes, single infusion, no sparge, one water profile, etc etc) deviates too far from normal procedure that I'm selling myself shorter than just a reduced mash efficiency.

3. Cleaning, but there's no real way of getting around that! Might buy a stainless conical in the future to make this easier--I don't know how much I trust the Fermzillas, and sometimes I don't clean them out for a week or two after transferring due to limited time. I suppose that could also have an effect? They get the Oxiclean Free treatment with hot water, followed by starsan, when I need them.

Now we're talking!

Sounds like a deep dive into water salts for mash pH vs flavor vs 'style accuracy' would be good.
 
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luckybeagle

luckybeagle

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To be honest looks all good to me. The only thing I'll add/inquire about is hop additions. Have you found using a hop rocket affects hop utilization? Also when do you usually add your hops? Most brewers now days do a bittering addition at the beginning and only an aroma/flavor addition at whirlpool temps at th end. I've found this to be a best practice. On those same lines dry hopping for short periods at cold crashing temperature seems to work very well. What do you usually do?

Do you cold crash or fine with gelatine? How's your beer clarity? What's your process like?

Thanks!

I am definitely curious about the hop spider affecting hop utilization. I was just telling my wife I want to start overshooting my target IBUs by about 10-20% just to compensate for this in case there is an appreciable loss. I did a basic 1.050 smash German Ale with noble hops to 25 IBU (BU:GU of 0.5) and it still tasted sweet. It attenuated well but wasn't as balanced as it should've been at 25 IBU. I thought this might've been due to the all Pilsner malt grain bill, but now I'm wondering if it's due to reduced hop utilization?

For late hop additions I've been also adding those to the hop spider and haven't given it much thought.

My beers get pretty clear just under cold conditions and time, depending on the yeast. I haven't used gelatin in a long time and only really fuss with it if I'm going for something that I really, really want crystal clear (like a kolsch).

What's the rule of thumb for hop utilization when using a hop spider for 60 minute additions? Is there one?
 

Velnerj

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Maybe I'll ask why you are using a hop spider to begin with? I started using one when I wanted to ferment in my brew kettle (which worked just fantastically by the way) and I didn't want hop matter sitting in my wort for the duration the whole fermentation. But for various reasons I've gone away from that method and use a plastic bucket fermenter, I've stuck with the spider but only out of habit.

Is it because a plate chiller wouldn't be able to cope with the hop matter? Has that been a part of your brewery for a long time? I've never used one and I think it's a device used in the minority of the homebrew community. Though I see the value it brings you in your set it and forget it approach. Is there any connection to your beers declining in flavor and the addition of using a hop spider and plate chiller?
 
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luckybeagle

luckybeagle

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Maybe I'll ask why you are using a hop spider to begin with? I started using one when I wanted to ferment in my brew kettle (which worked just fantastically by the way) and I didn't want hop matter sitting in my wort for the duration the whole fermentation. But for various reasons I've gone away from that method and use a plastic bucket fermenter, I've stuck with the spider but only out of habit.

Is it because a plate chiller wouldn't be able to cope with the hop matter? Has that been a part of your brewery for a long time? I've never used one and I think it's a device used in the minority of the homebrew community. Though I see the value it brings you in your set it and forget it approach. Is there any connection to your beers declining in flavor and the addition of using a hop spider and plate chiller?
Good questions.

I have clogged the plate chiller once with pellet hop material, which was a pain in the butt to unclug, sanitize, and re-hook up during a chill. But that was also with relying on a large quantity of low AA noble hops for bittering a Tripel. In hindsight, I should've used Nugget at 60, and something else in small quantity at the 5 or 10 minute mark.

Yeah, I've actually only ever used a plate chiller. When I was getting started, I bought a few pieces of used equipment off of craigslist and that was one of the items in the lot. It's awesome but does have its drawbacks (potential for clogging). I only use pellets, though, so I probably wouldn't have clogging issues if I watch my hop matter. I've considered a counterflow chiller but couldn't justify the expense when the plate chiller works so well and is on-hand. I think I'll give the hop spider a rest on this next batch, which will only have about an ounce or so of pellet hops in the hop bill.

I ferment in Fermzillas currently--haven't tried it i the BK since I brew just about weekly.
 

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You said (one water profile, etc etc) are you using the same water profile for all your beers? If so this could be a problem, different beers require different water profiles

Cheers
 
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luckybeagle

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You said (one water profile, etc etc) are you using the same water profile for all your beers? If so this could be a problem, different beers require different water profiles

Cheers
Hi, sorry what I meant was this:
I treat all of my brewing water on brew day to the appropriate water profile. I build to different water profiles depending on what I'm brewing.

Every drop of water I use on brew day is conditioned to the water profile I'm after. Since I don't sparge at all and just mash with the full volume of water I use on brew day, I was curious/concerned that doing this rather than mashing at one profile and then sparging with untreated RO water might produce an an inferior result somehow.
 

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I was curious/concerned that doing this rather than mashing at one profile and then sparging with untreated RO water might produce an an inferior result somehow.
Sparging with untreated RO water is OK and will not mess up your beer. Because the RO water has no buffering power to resist pH changes, the strongly buffered mash pH value will not change.
 

DBhomebrew

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OP does not sparge. Total water goes into the mash. Total water is treated to 'appropriate profile' per style.

Yes, I do believe you should look into this. 'Appropriate profile' per style may not arrive at a suitable mash pH.

That said, what's an appropriate profile? Few commercial breweries use the local water without adjustment of some sort.
 

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Here are my thoughts on your system and process.
1. Did I read your post correctly in that you mash from 1 to 4 hours? That long of a mash will change the wort fermentability. Can you do a mash out at 168 F for ten minutes or so and then turn off heat to the MLT until you can get back to transferring the wort.
2. Do you have any insulating mats under your pots? This might save some energy if you don’t.
3. I always experience more dough balls when adding grist to strike water. I suggest heating your water in the BK and put the grist in a dry MLT and then transfer the strike water to the MLT via the lowest port on the MLT; basically underletting. This might save you time by spending less time stirring the mash to break up dough balls.
4. The single infusion, no sparge process shouldn’t be creating any flavor issues.
5. Dull and muted flavors makes me think of problems with the water profile, given that you said the malts are fresh.

Otherwise, nice system and nice process.
 

CascadesBrewer

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OP does not sparge. Total water goes into the mash. Total water is treated to 'appropriate profile' per style.

A lot of us do full volume mashing BIAB and add all the brewing salts into the mash water. I don't see this as being an issue.

Did you say if you are adjusting for pH?

@luckybeagle : Your initial post has a lot of info on your mash equipment and process. My personal feeling is that there are a dozen ways to mash that can be simple & cheap and complex and expensive...and they can all make great beer. If you are getting decent efficiency and your expected attenuation, I would look elsewhere if you feel things are lacking in your beers.

For "dull and muted, and underwhelming in flavor" I might look at recipes, ingredients, maybe potential oxidation issues. It is hard to say without tasting those beers. Do you have a process to ensure you are pitching enough healthy yeast?
 

Hopalong

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Hey all, I've been brewing for about four years now and have fallen into a routine. Sometimes routines are good, but other times you end up practicing the wrong thing over and over! I was hoping a few folks could comment on my process to identify any major flaws and to check my thinking on my processes:

I have a 15 gallon, 3 vessel system with a HERMS coil in my HLT. I use a 5500w heating element in my HLT and a 5500w element in my boil kettle. It's controlled by an Auber Cube 2E, and I run two food grade pumps.

Water:
  • I fill up my HLT with plain old tap water and do not use this for any other purpose than to provide temperature for the HERMS coil
  • 4 stage RO filtration system. I add the full amount needed for brew day to my MLT and build the appropriate water profile.
Mash:
  • Begin recirculation within the HLT for temperature consistency (water drains from lower ball valve, passes over an in-line temperature probe hooked up to the controller, goes through the pump and returns to the top of the HLT to create temperature stability
  • MLT goes from tun to pump, to HERMS coil inlet at the bottom of the HLT to HERMS coil outlet at the top of the HLT, back to the MLT via a silicone tube that lays on top of the grain bed. This is nearly identical to Kal's method.
  • I set the temperature controller to 2F above my target grain bed temperature to account for temp loss and begin recirculating.
  • Once temperature is reached, I take freshly crushed grain and add it to the MLT. I recirculate for anywhere from 1 to 4 hours, depending on how busy I am. My mash temp is always a little lower than my target since I'm doing a single infusion, no sparge, constantly recirculated mash.
  • After the mash, I drain the full contents of the mash tun into the boil kettle and reach my preboil volume.
Boil:
  • I boil at about 55-70% power depending on batch size and ambient conditions, and reach a rolling boil quickly.
  • All hops are added to a hop rocket.
Chill:
  • During the last 15 minutes of the boil, I hook up my plate chiller to the pump an begin pumping the boiling wort through it to sterilize it and back into the boil kettle. I do not have the water supply running through the plate chiller at this point
  • At knockout, I shut off the heating element and turn on the cold water supply. This creates a whirlpool that simultaneously chills in the boil kettle. I have a temperature probe on my plate chiller outlet line to let me know when I've reached pitching temp.
Transfer to Fermenter:
  • I disconnect the return to the boil kettle once pitching temperature is reached and begin pumping the chilled wort into a sanitized Fermzilla, creating a lot of splish-splash in the process (I do not yet use oxygen). The fermenter then goes in to an Inkbird-controlled chest freezer, where I follow style-specific fermentation schedules. I almost always use a spunding valve with the pressure set to as low as I can get it. I then do a closed transfer to a keg when it's finished and put it on tap.
NOTES AND CONSIDERATIONS:

*My process is based on time saving measures. I have 2 young kids and can't dedicate 4-5 hours' worth of attention to my system at a time. I usually mash during naptime and begin my xfer to the boil kettle once the kids go to bed. My cumulative hands-on time in the garage is probably about an hour, with the remainder of the brew day spent inside with the fam'.

*I almost never boil for longer than 60 minutes, even with all Pilsner Malt batches based on the exBEERiments showing that modern, modified pilsner malts don't produce DMS like they used to.

*My chilling method allows me to step away and not babysit the flow through the plate chiller. I usually fire it up and go inside for 15-20 minutes.

*I can fly or batch sparge, and I know it's more cost-effective to, but single infusion/no sparge requires no babysitting, and I'm content with my consistent 80% efficiency with this method.

------

What do you all think? Can you see anything in my process or thinking that is flawed and might result in poorer beer quality? I tried to make timesaving adjustments that wouldn't affect the end product or couldn't be compensated with by more grain, etc. Thoughts?

Thanks for reading!

Hey all, I've been brewing for about four years now and have fallen into a routine. Sometimes routines are good, but other times you end up practicing the wrong thing over and over! I was hoping a few folks could comment on my process to identify any major flaws and to check my thinking on my processes:

I have a 15 gallon, 3 vessel system with a HERMS coil in my HLT. I use a 5500w heating element in my HLT and a 5500w element in my boil kettle. It's controlled by an Auber Cube 2E, and I run two food grade pumps.

Water:
  • I fill up my HLT with plain old tap water and do not use this for any other purpose than to provide temperature for the HERMS coil
  • 4 stage RO filtration system. I add the full amount needed for brew day to my MLT and build the appropriate water profile.
Mash:
  • Begin recirculation within the HLT for temperature consistency (water drains from lower ball valve, passes over an in-line temperature probe hooked up to the controller, goes through the pump and returns to the top of the HLT to create temperature stability
  • MLT goes from tun to pump, to HERMS coil inlet at the bottom of the HLT to HERMS coil outlet at the top of the HLT, back to the MLT via a silicone tube that lays on top of the grain bed. This is nearly identical to Kal's method.
  • I set the temperature controller to 2F above my target grain bed temperature to account for temp loss and begin recirculating.
  • Once temperature is reached, I take freshly crushed grain and add it to the MLT. I recirculate for anywhere from 1 to 4 hours, depending on how busy I am. My mash temp is always a little lower than my target since I'm doing a single infusion, no sparge, constantly recirculated mash.
  • After the mash, I drain the full contents of the mash tun into the boil kettle and reach my preboil volume.
Boil:
  • I boil at about 55-70% power depending on batch size and ambient conditions, and reach a rolling boil quickly.
  • All hops are added to a hop rocket.
Chill:
  • During the last 15 minutes of the boil, I hook up my plate chiller to the pump an begin pumping the boiling wort through it to sterilize it and back into the boil kettle. I do not have the water supply running through the plate chiller at this point
  • At knockout, I shut off the heating element and turn on the cold water supply. This creates a whirlpool that simultaneously chills in the boil kettle. I have a temperature probe on my plate chiller outlet line to let me know when I've reached pitching temp.
Transfer to Fermenter:
  • I disconnect the return to the boil kettle once pitching temperature is reached and begin pumping the chilled wort into a sanitized Fermzilla, creating a lot of splish-splash in the process (I do not yet use oxygen). The fermenter then goes in to an Inkbird-controlled chest freezer, where I follow style-specific fermentation schedules. I almost always use a spunding valve with the pressure set to as low as I can get it. I then do a closed transfer to a keg when it's finished and put it on tap.
NOTES AND CONSIDERATIONS:

*My process is based on time saving measures. I have 2 young kids and can't dedicate 4-5 hours' worth of attention to my system at a time. I usually mash during naptime and begin my xfer to the boil kettle once the kids go to bed. My cumulative hands-on time in the garage is probably about an hour, with the remainder of the brew day spent inside with the fam'.

*I almost never boil for longer than 60 minutes, even with all Pilsner Malt batches based on the exBEERiments showing that modern, modified pilsner malts don't produce DMS like they used to.

*My chilling method allows me to step away and not babysit the flow through the plate chiller. I usually fire it up and go inside for 15-20 minutes.

*I can fly or batch sparge, and I know it's more cost-effective to, but single infusion/no sparge requires no babysitting, and I'm content with my consistent 80% efficiency with this method.

------

What do you all think? Can you see anything in my process or thinking that is flawed and might result in poorer beer quality? I tried to make timesaving adjustments that wouldn't affect the end product or couldn't be compensated with by more grain, etc. Thoughts?

Thanks for reading!
*Sometimes routines are good, but other times you end up practicing the wrong thing over and over!
Does that mean that in the four years you have been brewing beer you haven't been sure of things? That is not bad! I was into it for a few more years before I realized that maybe I was chasing rabbits down holes.

*Can you see anything in my process or thinking that is flawed and might result in poorer beer quality?
The single infusion method produces extract that is sugar and chemical imbalanced and unstable. Also, the richest starch in malt, amylopectin, is thrown out with the spent mash.

*I set the temperature controller to 2F above my target grain bed temperature to account for temp loss and begin recirculating.
Depending on how high the mash temperature is, the low temperature activated enzymes that produce ale and lager, rapidly, denature. Beta is one of the enzymes. Beta is responsible for conversion, which occurs at 60 to 63. During conversion Beta converts simple sugar, glucose, which Alpha releases from amylose during liquefaction, into fermentable, complex types of sugar, maltose and maltotriose. Maltose and maltotriose are the types of sugar that produce ale and lager. Glucose only makes the alcohol in beer. When conversion occurs, secondary fermentation takes place. Conversion, dextrinization and gelatinization steps are skipped in single infusion.

*All hops are added to a hop rocket.
Hops should be added into the boiler after hot break is skimmed off and stops forming. Leaf hops should be used in the hop back to filter out any pellet hop silt from entering the chiller plates. Attach the pump to the outlet of the process side of the chill plate, the pump runs cooler. Boiler, to the Hop Back, to the plate chiller, to the pump, to the fermenter.

*I recirculate for anywhere from 1 to 4 hours, depending on how busy I am.
Mother Nature doesn't care how busy we are.
When hot extract recirculates through a grain bed for a long period of time over sparge occurs, which extracts tannin. For instance, let's say that 1L per minute of hot extract flows for one hour through a grain bed sized for a 20L batch of beer. That adds up to 60L of hot extract flowing through the grain bed. That is over sparge. Multiply that by four. Tannin extraction is based on time, temperature and pH, that is why vorlauf is kept within 10 minutes using a small volume of hot extract.

*I follow style-specific fermentation schedules.
What is a style-specific fermentation schedule? The single infusion method only makes one style of beer. Beer that is made from simple sugar and sweet sugar. The only things that can be controlled in the brewing method are the amount of glucose and the amount of sweet sugar that forms during liquefaction. The less glucose, fermentation occurs quickly. Whatever style-specific fermentation temperature is it is based on very simple beer produced with a very simple brewing method. Secondary fermentation doesn't occur because conversion is skipped.

*exBEERiments showing that modern, modified pilsner malts don't produce DMS:
There are two types of malt, modern, high modified, high protein, malt and under modified, low protein, malt, one makes ale and lager, and one doesn't. Under modified, low protein, malt is used for producing ale and lager. The malt is used with the step mash method, which produces pseudo, ale and lager and with the decoction method, which produces authentic, ale and lager. Modern, high modified, malt matches the single temperature infusion method where only one step and one temperature are needed. The starch only needs to contain enough enzymes to liquefy starch. The higher the modification, less amount of enzymes. The higher the protein content, less amount of starch/sugar. To use more expensive, under modified, malt with single infusion is a waste of money because less expensive, high modified, malt will produce the same beer, glucose is glucose.
Since grain distillers and ale brewers are both brewers, both types of malt are considered Brewers Malt. The only way to know which type of malt is in a bag is with a malt spec sheet. A malt spec sheet comes with every bag of malt, they are online.
 
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