response from grainfather management

[Sparger]

so i posted yesterday below about my frustration of purchasing directly from grainfather only to be undercut in price a week later by home brew supply. here is grainfather's corporate response to my inquiry as to what gives. lesson here is dont buy direct from grainfather - wait for a sale from a distributor.

Hi [sparger]

I’m sorry that you feel that you have now lost out by buying off us direct. We do our best to work with our distributors so all the retailers can make healthy enough margins to then support the end customer. While price fixing is illegal and we can’t pay any rebates you can rest assured that by buying off us direct we will be here to support you 100% as you go through your brewing journey which may not be the case for some of the retailers that feel they have to discount heavily to get the sale. We will be talking to our distributors about their retailers so we appreciate you letting us know.

Cheers

Kind Regards
Cjantra

 

[Homercidal]

What's wrong? You are going to get 100% support as you go through your brewing journey.

Gunga Galunga

 

[agrazela]

Don't Stop Brew-lieving.

 

[kh54s10]

Just because a retailer is willing to take a discount doesn't mean the parent company needs to honor it. There are retailers that will price match and others that will not. That is one reason I hate "sales". One day it will be one price, the next it will be another and later it will be yet another price. If you want to chase sales that is up to you. But it is unreasonable to expect another company to honor the sale price of the first.

The luck of the draw.

 

[schatzke]

Are you happy with the product you bought? There will always be someone out there that got a better deal than you. If you never pull the trigger on a purchase because you are waiting for the BEST possible price you may just talk yourself out of buying anything ever again.

 

[NothingRhymesWithCurtiss]

After years of working in retail and working with both manufacturers and re-sellers, this is pretty commonplace. As stores are able to charge huge mark-ups on some products, they're able to sell other products "at a loss."

We bought a bike trailer a few years back and the manufacturer was selling it for $700, while a big box store had it for $400. When I called the manufacturer, and spoke with 3 different people, they all told me the same thing, "If you want to save money, buy it from the store. If you great customer service the entire time you own the product, buy it from us."

I have no doubt that Grainfather while give you great customer service, while NB, Morebeer.... whoever else is selling them will require some hoops to jump through.

Just my two cents.

 

[sam]

Yes, this is the norm. The retailer does not want to be in competition with the manufacturer for sales and the manufacturer doesn't want to upset their retailer channel.

Think about it. If Grainfather started selling their stuff direct at a price that leaves the retailer no room to make any money, the retailer is going to pass and put something else on his shelf.

 

[Sparger]

Yes businesses can do what they want - yes they don't owe me anything. Here the dealor undercut the manufacturer. You'll notice that all of NB 20% off deals always exclude grain father and blichman products. Somehow this distributor didn't have the constraint NB had. Good business have a practice of matching prices. I will not purchase directly from grain father again. Lesson learned.

 

[Gerry_P]

I think you'll find that unless they're having a sale or something, most manufacturers sell their products directly at MSRP, which of course stands for Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price. Some manufacturers forbid retailers from selling their product below MSRP, but most don't.

OP, other than pricing issues how are you liking that Grainfather?

 

[Bensiff]

Well, since you decided to post to the world about your injustice in attempt to convince others to avoid a company...then I suppose you open yourself to criticism.

Sounds like you are looking for them to give you a rebate because after the fact of your purchase, someone sold the product for cheaper. Unless the company offers a price match guarantee for x amount of time after your purchase, you are way off base to expect them to refund you money. The company responded very professionally to an absurd request, good on the company. I'd struggle to not be sarcastic in my response to idealistic notions from customer who clearly has little to no understanding of how businesses operate.

Grainfather professional, Sparger not so much

 

[Sparger]

No I'm attorney with a masters in tax and have been involved in the sale of several multimillion dollar international businesses for an international accounting firm. Most manufacturers have agreements with their distributors to sell their product at a particular price. In return, if manufacturer also sells the product, it agrees to not go below that price, otherwise manufacturer could undercut its distributors every time. That is why grainfather direct never sells for less than 890 - it easily could and would if it had not contracted not to. If distributors start dropping the price this hurts manufacturer's sales. Manufacturers like distributors because that's what they do, manufacturers on the other hand manufacture. it is only when you get really big that you do both - grainfather is still in the growth phase. my goal was to get word out there that grainfather is not following (or its distributors) are not following the normal manufacturer-distributor arrangement. therefore, don't buy it from the manufacturer - find a distributor with a discount. this is not what grainfather wants but it is apparently not policing its distributors all well as it could. You obviously haven't shopped much in your life. most decent sellers will match their competitor's prices. and the normal arrangement makes it so that manufacturers and dealors aren't competing against each other. I am not way off base and you don't know much about business.

 

[BrunDog]

Sounds like sour grains to me. Grainfather owes you nothing and expecting them to cover a retailer's discount is silly. Caveat emptor.

 

[kh54s10]

No I'm attorney with a masters in tax and have been involved in the sale of several multimillion dollar international businesses for an international accounting firm. Most manufacturers have agreements with their distributors to sell their product at a particular price. In return, if manufacturer also sells the product, it agrees to not go below that price, otherwise manufacturer could undercut its distributors every time. That is why grainfather direct never sells for less than 890 - it easily could and would if it had not contracted not to. If distributors start dropping the price this hurts manufacturer's sales. Manufacturers like distributors because that's what they do, manufacturers on the other hand manufacture. it is only when you get really big that you do both - grainfather is still in the growth phase. my goal was to get word out there that grainfather is not following (or its distributors) are not following the normal manufacturer-distributor arrangement. therefore, don't buy it from the manufacturer - find a distributor with a discount. this is not what grainfather wants but it is apparently not policing its distributors all well as it could. You obviously haven't shopped much in your life. most decent sellers will match their competitor's prices. and the normal arrangement makes it so that manufacturers and dealors aren't competing against each other. I am not way off base and you don't know much about business.

You are totally off base here. If distributors start dropping the price this hurts manufacturer's sales. I am sure that Grainfather sells to every retailer at a wholesale price so Grainfather gets the same no matter what the retailer sells it for. If the retailer wants to sell for less that is their choice. As stated by Grainfather they cannot "set" the price retailers sell for. That is price fixing and is illegal. As someone else stated if Grainfather starts undercutting the retailers they would stop selling the appliance, cutting the selling base of the product.

Since no one so far agrees with you, I would say you are barking up the wrong tree.

 

[augiedoggy]

I see this often myself.... even at work.. We distrute own own brand of paper and medias for some of the printing equipment we sell... There is a local office supply company which buys it in bulk at such a discount that they are able to sell it cheaper than we do direct...So we lose markup profit but in the end get business without as much work or responsibility (support) as a result as in the case here. Been that way for years.

I think most people dont realize the amount of markup there is on these products.. The grainfather likely costs the manufacturer or designer less than half of retail to make and sell at a profit. If a particular distributor places larger orders they often get deeper discounts and therefore can sell for less with the same profit... I call it the "big box store effect" its nothing new...

And to take it one step further its even worse with todays common business structure when a designer has them made overseas and the manufactuer starts selling them direct for a fraction of the price that they would sell for through the main designer or distributor who commissioned the manufacturing in the first place...

This is why I try not to assume anything and do my homework before making purchases.

 

[augiedoggy]

its been mentioned on the other grainfather sale thread but the grainfather is avaliable at this time for $626 and free shipping new from this seller on ebay.. I'm sure it wont last long because of all the attention being brought to it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Grainfather...99f440e:g:8IsAAOSwCGVX9VOV&afsrc=1&rmvSB=true

 

[kh54s10]

its been mentioned on the other grainfather sale thread but the grainfather is avaliable at this time for $626 and free shipping new from this seller on ebay.. I'm sure it wont last long because of all the attention being brought to it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Grainfather...99f440e:g:8IsAAOSwCGVX9VOV&afsrc=1&rmvSB=true

It's gone!!!!

 

[wishingiwasfishing]

I suppose I have a different question. I don't have a problem with retailers offering discounts that the manufacturer will not. This is common practice for several reasons.

Who had the lower price?

 

[Homercidal]

FYI Thread moved since this has zero to do with electric brewing, and everything to do with a review of the company.

 

[Sparger]

Guess you never heard of Apple. They have maximum control over their distributors. That Iphone is always the same price everywhere. Only place I've seen the price go down is Costco - they are the only one who've been able to negotiate to sell at a lower price (that I've seen). FYI - those manufacturer rebates you see on many products is also being driven by the normal process. Manufacturers sometimes let retailers drop the price by a specified amount. Costco even posts them and charges you on the undiscounted price (sales tax reasons there - I won't get into it). I don't think it is unreasonable to ask a manufacturer what it can do for you, when you face this situation. You can, and should, always ask what can you do for me? It's the normal business thing to do. My point was to post that grainfather corporate was doing nothing in this case. If you like that - good for you. Buy from them. If you want a better deal, look elsewhere. Northern Brewer has excellent service too. Next time you get seated in a lousy spot in a restaurant - follow your own advice and just sit there. Don't ask for a better spot, you have no right to expect it. Contracts is contracts, you're not special, etc. Or, ask politely, it never hurts to ask. If you don't like me posting the answer I got, too bad.

 

[Sparger]

Home Brew Supply beat them by over $100

 

[TBC]

Signup for grainfather emails on their site and you will be notified of deals. I bought mine last year on Black Friday from grainfather when they were offering 10% off sitewide and free shipping. I got the grainfather, graincoat, and sparge water heater for under a thousand.

 

[slym2none]

No I'm attorney with a masters in tax and have been involved in the sale of several multimillion dollar international businesses for an international accounting firm. Most manufacturers have agreements with their distributors to sell their product at a particular price. In return, if manufacturer also sells the product, it agrees to not go below that price, otherwise manufacturer could undercut its distributors every time. That is why grainfather direct never sells for less than 890 - it easily could and would if it had not contracted not to. If distributors start dropping the price this hurts manufacturer's sales. Manufacturers like distributors because that's what they do, manufacturers on the other hand manufacture. it is only when you get really big that you do both - grainfather is still in the growth phase. my goal was to get word out there that grainfather is not following (or its distributors) are not following the normal manufacturer-distributor arrangement. therefore, don't buy it from the manufacturer - find a distributor with a discount. this is not what grainfather wants but it is apparently not policing its distributors all well as it could. You obviously haven't shopped much in your life. most decent sellers will match their competitor's prices. and the normal arrangement makes it so that manufacturers and dealors aren't competing against each other. I am not way off base and you don't know much about business.

 

[Sparger]

Read how apple does it http://www.macworld.com/article/2024257/how-apple-sets-its-prices.html

 

[MidAtlanticBrew]

Last week, I paid $10 for 3 pounds of honey crisps... then I saw them on sale across the street for $8.99. Boy was I p*ssed

 

[DU99]

what some stores do put on a special,then hope customer's buy other item's in store which ain't on special.

 

[wishingiwasfishing]

Home Brew Supply beat them by over $100

Okay, that's a pretty good difference and it's from a fairly widely used online supplier. As per the price difference, I think that's on you. Yes, it would be nice if they matched the price, with a price match guarantee...but certainly not mandatory. I can feel your frustration...but that's the way it goes.

However, I'm a little surprised that Grainfather is insinuating that you will get support for their product if you buy it from them direct, but you will not receive manufacturer support if you buy from various reputable online dealers. We're not talking about buying from an unknown Ebay seller...these are homebrew shops masses of people use to get exposure to some of the latest and greatest homebrew equipment.

Is this how anyone else reads it, that you don't get Grainfather support if you buy from other online stores (such as morebeer, homebrewsupply, etc)?

I'll go back and read it again...

 

[CA_Mouse]

Good business have a practice of matching prices. I will not purchase directly from grain father again. Lesson learned.

Businesses? Yes. Manufacturers? No reason.

Sounds like sour grapes to me. This is exactly why *most* manufacturers do not do direct sales. Blichmann doesn't and the margins they give the dealers is enough to cover a small profit selling at the MSRT. If you bought a car from a manufacturer and the dealership down the street offered it for $4k less, do you think the manufacturer owes you money? Time to learn to Adult.

 

[augiedoggy]

It's gone!!!!

there were 4 available at the time I posted the link... 10 minutes later it was removed...

 

[augiedoggy]

Okay, that's a pretty good difference and it's from a fairly widely used online supplier. As per the price difference, I think that's on you. Yes, it would be nice if they matched the price, with a price match guarantee...but certainly not mandatory. I can feel your frustration...but that's the way it goes.

However, I'm a little surprised that Grainfather is insinuating that you will get support for their product if you buy it from them direct, but you will not receive manufacturer support if you buy from various reputable online dealers. We're not talking about buying from an unknown Ebay seller...these are homebrew shops masses of people use to get exposure to some of the latest and greatest homebrew equipment.

Is this how anyone else reads it, that you don't get Grainfather support if you buy from other online stores (such as morebeer, homebrewsupply, etc)?

I'll go back and read it again...

The people selling them new on ebay are distributors... How do you think they obtain them in bulk and sell them for so little? just my 2 cents but perhaps if they all charged more they could become as big as the distributors you mention But I for one would rather buy it with less of a markup.. I havent needed any "support" for how to use a kettle or plate chiller so im good saving a considerable amount of money instead. ebay and paypal both have purchase protection in case I ever do have a problem.

 

[jbunton]

Why then do you not support your LHBS if they clearly had a better price. Online and direct from manufacturer isn't always the best deal... but looks like you've figured that out already!