Request: Bud Light Clone Recipe

[BobOki]

The first batch was pretty close, but because I started it before we decided we should water it down, it has a lot more rice flavour that standard BL. If I half the recipe ingredients, then water it down it should be spot on.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

So whats the final recipe and methods

 

[estricklin]

I bottled mine yesterday. So far it's really good, but as I may have mentioned in this thread I pitched S-23 instead of my preferred 34/70, so time will tell more. It has aged for months. It finished at 1.003.

 

[applescrap]

I enjoyed reading this straight through. Help, what is the current best recipe? What about precracking the grains and letting them sit awhile to reduce the fresh taste? Diluting and then filtering the beer with expensive fining agents/tools? Im struggling to brew ten gallons in 15 gallon kettle. Love the idea of brewing 5 and diluting to ten. Cant be too expensive in bulk too!

I came up with 4.9# 2 row/6 row
2.1# flaked rice and .4 oz hallertauer. Total $13.55 for 5g batch. Stupid question but are long grain and flaked rice weight interchangeable. I heard a brewer on podcast say he uses jasmine rice in all his beers cause he likes them dry, not bud light just his beers. I want to make light beer not just bud light so I like the idea of jasmine rice.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I read every post on this thread. It seems @tootal has the most credible info as he worked at AB. What I have gotten so far is BL should be 30% rice with a mix of 2 row and 6 row. I didn't see where the % between the two were listed. A few different yeast were mentioned. tootal mentions wyeast American lager yeast so I'm thinking that is 2035? 840 and 34/70 have been used.Multiple hop additions of either Willamette, Hallertau.Saaz at 60 ,20 FO with no times or which ones at specific times. Does anyone have any further insight?
Also its been mentioned a cereal mash is used at AB but I thought minute rice needs no cereal mash.

 

[ba-brewer]

I would guess AB uses raw rice and not minute rice(flaked rice), so they would need to do a cereal mash.

According to Mrmalty WLP840 is from budwiser, and they cross that to wyeast 2007.

I did a standard american lager that turned out well using WLP840 and 20% flaked rice, 20% 6row, 60% 2row.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I would guess AB uses raw rice and not minute rice(flaked rice), so they would need to do a cereal mash.

According to Mrmalty WLP840 is from budwiser, and they cross that to wyeast 2007.

I did a standard american lager that turned out well using WLP840 and 20% flaked rice, 20% 6row, 60% 2row.

I realize AB isn't using Minute rice LOL But it was mentioned here so I guess I'm wondering why if its the same thing everyone doesn't just use minute rice and skip the cereal mash.
I've been looking up wlp840 vs 34/70. It looks like the 840 is only recommended at 50-55 deg ferment temp while 34/70 goes to 70. Recently I've read 34/70 can be bumped to 65 for a fast fement with good results while I'd think the 840 would take much longer at the traditional way? I see the 840 is the Bud strain as mentioned, do you think there is much of a flavor difference? The fast ferment is enticing

 

[ba-brewer]

Flaked rice is going to be more expense to a commercial brewer, why pay someone else to cook and dry the product. For home brew I would use flaked rice for the ease of just adding it to the mash with the malt.

WLP840 says it has a slight fruitiness which is also called out in BJCP guideline for american light lager. Not sure how it would work outside of the recommended range, but if you want to ferment at ale temps then it seems like WLP029 might be a good choice as it is clean with a touch of fruitiness.

 

[schematix]

Anyone ever try to use corn starch in an american lager? Seems like it would be the cheapest and simplest way to go.

 

[RCCOLA]

Anyone ever try to use corn starch in an american lager? Seems like it would be the cheapest and simplest way to go.

I use it all the time. Like using flaked without the gloppy flakes. Mix it in with the dry grain to avoid it marshmallowing up when you dump it in.

And before the uninformed come in claiming haze and thickening--it's the same starch that's in grain and is converted to fermentables in the mash.

 

[ba-brewer]

I use it all the time. Like using flaked without the gloppy flakes. Mix it in with the dry grain to avoid it marshmallowing up when you dump it in.

And before the uninformed come in claiming haze and thickening--it's the same starch that's in grain and is converted to fermentables in the mash.

Flaked rice does not add anything that I can taste, but flaked corn does seem to leave some corn flavor.

Is there any flavor from corn starch or is it tasteless?

How do you figure out how how much to add?

 

[schematix]

How do you figure out how how much to add?

I would assume as pure starch it'll 100% convert to give 46ppg.

Depending upon how plain/watery you like your beer i'd say a practical limit is probably 40% of your fermentables, but more likely 20-30% to get a balanced product.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

I would assume as pure starch it'll 100% convert to give 46ppg.

Depending upon how plain/watery you like your beer i'd say a practical limit is probably 40% of your fermentables, but more likely 20-30% to get a balanced product.

Yup. It's essentially a starch isolate. I wouldn't imagine there being any corn flavor component to it, even if conversion wasn't completely 100%.

 

[Sadu]

I was thinking of doing a light lager this weekend but only have basmati rice on hand. Is that going to leave behind aromatic flavours, is should I go into town and get plain white rice instead?
Not sure what this minute rice stuff is that everyone talks about, and none of our HBSs sell flaked rice or corn. Good to know that corn starch works though.

 

[IslandLizard]

I was thinking of doing a light lager this weekend but only have basmati rice on hand. Is that going to leave behind aromatic flavours, is should I go into town and get plain white rice instead?
Not sure what this minute rice stuff is that everyone talks about, and none of our HBSs sell flaked rice or corn. Good to know that corn starch works though.

I'm willing to bet Basmati will leave some of its characteristic flavor behind in the beer. Whether you can actually taste it apart from the malt and hops after fermentation, is the bigger question.

I'd get a bag of cheap generic rice, and use that. You do need to cook it before adding to the mash, or cereal mash it.

Minute rice is "converted" rice, it was pre-cooked in the factory, then dried.
It now only needs to cook for 1 minute to make it "edible." The taste is blah. But it's ready for the mash, as is!

 

[schematix]

I wouldn't use a rice like basmati (or jasmine) for a light lager. Those rices have a characteristic flavor/aroma like nothing else.

I agree with IslandLizard that you need something cheap and generic for this.

If your LHBS doesn't sell flaked rice or corn i think its time to find another LHBS. That's standard fare.

 

[IslandLizard]

If your LHBS doesn't sell flaked rice or corn i think its time to find another LHBS. That's standard fare.

One of my 2 brew stores doesn't stock flaked rice or corn in bulk, but they have (small) bags of it, at a somewhat staggering price! I'm fortunate to be able to get them through our group buys, and use at least 20# of flaked corn a year.

If I need rice, I just cook it, then add to the mash. I also pre-cook the flaked corn for 20-30 minutes in lots of water, like a thin polenta. I then dump that into the mash tun where it becomes my strike "water."

 

[ba-brewer]

With the cost of adjuncts being more expense than base malt it is sort of funny that a light lager might cost more to brew than a premium lager.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

With the cost of adjuncts being more expense than base malt it is sort of funny that a light lager might cost more to brew than a premium lager.

I was thinking the same thing. I just bought 4 pounds of flaked rice @ $2.50 each. Seemed expensive being its only rice.

Sort of like Chicken salad. Its chicken and mayo,the 2 cheapest foods on the planet yet they charge $9 a pound at the deli... more than antipasto. Makes no sense

 

[z-bob]

Someone at the local brew club was asking about cloning Sapporo beer. I think it's contract-brewed in the US and probably bears little resemblance to the original, but I got to thinking how to brew how I imagine Sapporo. (I've never tasted it) A premium American lager made with rice and Japanese hops. I'll brew it someday; probably not this year, the style is above my skill level:

70% Pilsner malt
20% Jasmine rice*
7% Vienna
3% German acid malt
Sorachi Ace hops, about 20 IBU's
German lager yeast

*I have no idea if the rice really should be a fragrant one like Jasmine or Basmati, or a tasteless and odorless variety like plain American long grain. The broken jasmine rice at the Asian market looks ideal, just cook it in a rice cooker before mashing.

 

[tootal]

I mentioned this a long time ago but it seems some were either confused or didn't feel like reading this whole thread! I don't blame you!
We always make a cereal mash for two reasons. One is you do need to boil the rice. We take generic white rice and put it in a blender and "chop" it into pieces that are basically round. Just put 2 to 3 inches of rice in at a time. If you put too much you get a lot of dust which becomes glue!
Two is we add some malt to the rice to keep it from turning into a big pile of glue! We do a mash with the rice and malt to convert the malt first and then bring it to a boil. This gives you some melanoidins from the malt which is a product of decoction which is always a good thing. We use half as much malt as rice and that's more than what's needed but we like decoctions.
Is all this extra work worth it? I believe so but that's always subjective.
Minute rice? Why not, should work fine just save some boiling time. Generic rice is also very cheap.
As far as corn is concerned, it does add some sweetness that is different from the sweetness you get from malt and the lack of hops. When Bud was 11 IBU's and above I liked it a lot but at 9 IBU's it's too sweet. However Busch is also sweet but I prefer that corn sweetness.
Brewmaster's don't call Busch a beer, they call it a mixed drink since any mistakes in pricier beers is blended off into Busch. It's at a level that would be really hard to detect though! Oh, and before anybody gets up in arms about that, it's totally legal to do. Now if they tried putting Busch in Bud, well then call the lawyers!
Man, I'm really rambling here and I'm not even drinking! Must be the cold medicine! Carry on!

 

[Sadu]

With the cost of adjuncts being more expense than base malt it is sort of funny that a light lager might cost more to brew than a premium lager.

Exactly. Rice I'm not so fussed about, I'm happy to pre-cook the cheap rice and mash it with barley. Easy.

But with flaked corn being harder to find (this is in New Zealand, I guess nobody homebrews much adjunct lagers here) I'm looking at using creamed corn from the supermarket, which costs more than malted barley.

 

[z-bob]

Exactly. Rice I'm not so fussed about, I'm happy to pre-cook the cheap rice and mash it with barley. Easy.

But with flaked corn being harder to find (this is in New Zealand, I guess nobody homebrews much adjunct lagers here) I'm looking at using creamed corn from the supermarket, which costs more than malted barley.

Do you have cornflakes breakfast cereal in Oz? That will work, and you don't have to precook it Canned corn will be a disaster, in my opinion.

 

[IslandLizard]

Exactly. Rice I'm not so fussed about, I'm happy to pre-cook the cheap rice and mash it with barley. Easy.

But with flaked corn being harder to find (this is in New Zealand, I guess nobody homebrews much adjunct lagers here) I'm looking at using creamed corn from the supermarket, which costs more than malted barley.

If you can't get fresh corn or flaked dried corn, look for (corn) grits, probably in your cereal aisle. Don't (!) use creamed/cooked (canned) corn, it will impart the (unwanted) smell of DMS to your beer.

Grits must be boiled/cooked in water to gelatinize them. That becomes (part of) your strike water for the real mash.

When I use 3 lbs of flaked corn (Boulevard Tank 7 clone, a Saison), I need 4-5 gallons of water to cook them into a thin polenta. Slowly boil for about 30 minutes, don't let it stick to the bottom. I then dump the whole lot into my mash tun and add enough cold water to get it to strike temp. Grits are very similar, just more granular, smaller pieces.

Do you have cornflakes breakfast cereal in Oz? That will work, and you don't have to precook it Canned corn will be a disaster, in my opinion.

Corn flakes (e.g., Kellogg's) are over-processed cereal, containing as much adjuncts (sugar, malt extract, etc.) as corn itself. Besides, it's been toasted. Not suitable as an adjunct for a light lager.

 

[IslandLizard]

I was thinking the same thing. I just bought 4 pounds of flaked rice @ $2.50 each. Seemed expensive being its only rice.

Flaked corn, rice and oats(!) are around $2.50 a pound here too, $2.00 on orders over 10# ($2.25 for flaked rice).

I buy most flaked stuff at our group buy for about $1 a pound, we do splits. I always keep well stocked up on those.

If your LHBS sells sacks, you may get a decent deal on those, actually. Split with some of your brewing friends.

 

[z-bob]

Corn flakes (e.g., Kellogg's) are over-processed cereal, containing as much adjuncts (sugar, malt extract, etc.) as corn itself. Besides, it's been toasted. Not suitable as an adjunct for a light lager.

It's certainly not ideal, but it is usable; I've tried it. If flaked corn or grits are not available in New Zealand, breakfast flakes might be.

 

[BobOki]

Keep in mind corn is the wrong flavor for BDL.

 

[Sadu]

I just brewed a cream ale using 12% cooked white rice. Efficiency was pretty average for a low gravity recipe with simple sugars included. I cooked the rice in a rice cooker, then measured out the same amount as the recipe said (except the recipe called for flaked rice). Then mixed it in the mash and mashed for 90 mins.
Should I have weighed out the uncooked weight?

 

[tootal]

Someone at the local brew club was asking about cloning Sapporo beer. I think it's contract-brewed in the US and probably bears little resemblance to the original.

Actually the brewmasters at Sapporo liked AB's beer better than theirs and wondered why it was different. It was explained that our system uses a "stripper" to strip away volatiles to make a cleaner beer. We ended up building a stripper and putting it in their brewery so now the beers taste the same.

 

[stz]

I've only anecdotal experience from talking to other brewers who've spent time working with the big boys, but the process driven guys all totally love Budweiser for their best in the world total package oxygen. It is like everybody decided on a decent standard and they blow it out of the water because it tastes like very little, you'll taste anything that shouldn't be in it.

 

[casualbrewer]

Probably impossible to clone any of the big lagers imo. The level of control and filtration cannot be matched at our level. I make mostly lagers and they all are missing the level of crispness that a commercial beer has.