Rehydrate or Starter or both??

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fossilcat

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I've just started brewing mead, and I'm a little uncertain about the best way to introduce the yeast into the must. One of the most important things I've come to learn is that a successful brew depends on strong, healthy, and stress free yeasties.

So, before I pitch, what's the best method of conditioning the yeast? Do I set up a starter and let that brew for a few days? (how long do you let a starter cook before pitching?) Or, is it best to rehydrate with Go-Ferm? Or do you do both - Go-Ferm to boost strength, and starter to increase numbers?

Last question: Does it depend on whether the yeast is dry, liquid, or smackpack?
 
I haven't made mead yet but plan to soon. I've watched a bunch of how to videos and it looks like everyone just pitches the yeast in without a starter when using dry. With liquid, you can make a starter with apple juice.
 
I use Go-Ferm at a rate of 1.25:1 with ~150mL water at ~95*. Let it proof for 15 minutes, stir, and add to the must.

Then I hit it with some DAP and FermaidK once fermentation is active (usually ~36 hours later) and more at the 1/3rd sugar break. Stirring/degassing daily until this point which is usuay day 5 or so.
 
We like to make a starter overnight using GoFerm in the 105F water from the tap(measured with a thermometer) and adding the yeast on top and letting them settle in a nice warm spot on top of the fridge. You can of course just dump it in the honey must, but using GoFerm gives the yeast a healthier start. WVMJ
 
Thanks for chiming in guys, I appreciate it.

I know that you can just toss the packet into the must and, in most cases, everything will be fine. But sometimes things don't go right - like a stuck fermentation. I've also heard that the longer the fermentation lasts, the greater the possibility of off flavors developing (something about "esters"). So maybe throwing the packet in makes a tasty mead, but then again, if I put in the extra effort I can make a mead that tastes even better.

So this is what I'm going to do about 12 hours before I brew: I'm going ahead with the GoFerm rehydration per directions on their website....you know - 1.25 grams per gram of yeast; heat water to 100; add yeast, wait 15 minutes and pitch to a starter. The starter will be a low gravity must, about 1.05, volume about 1qt with a pinch of nutrient. I'll wait until the GoFerm concocton temp and must temp equalize - i'll shoot for about 80.

Hmmm....that actually sounds like a pretty good plan. Helps to talk these things out. :)
 
2 cups water at 105F to dissolve everything
2 tbs sugar
1/4 tsp acid blend
1 tsp GoFerm
Dissolve and shake well
Sprinkle yeast on top
put in nice warm spot like top of fridge
very easy
WVMJ
 
Thanks for chiming in guys, I appreciate it.

I know that you can just toss the packet into the must and, in most cases, everything will be fine. But sometimes things don't go right - like a stuck fermentation. I've also heard that the longer the fermentation lasts, the greater the possibility of off flavors developing (something about "esters"). So maybe throwing the packet in makes a tasty mead, but then again, if I put in the extra effort I can make a mead that tastes even better.

I think stuck ferments have way more to do with overly high Starting gravities and/or lack of nutrients.

That said starters and or rehydrating won't hurt.
 
Strictly speaking, a starter, which is a discretely different process from rehydration, is not necessary for dry yeast. Once properly rehydrated (and be aware that the manufacturers recommendations for optimizing this process, in terms of temps and times may vary from strain to strain), dry yeast is ready to go. The advantage of dry yeast is time...if you want a higher pitch rate, you just use more yeast; there is no need to step up the cell counts with a starter. This being said, I would submit that a single 5 gm packet of yeast, even properly rehydrated, is a woefully inadequate pitch rare for most meads.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Home Brew mobile app
 
I just wanted to add in a bit more, now that I'm not on my mobile device, which can be a PITA if you're trying to be detailed...advance apologies for being lengthy!

I haven't made mead yet but plan to soon. I've watched a bunch of how to videos and it looks like everyone just pitches the yeast in without a starter when using dry. With liquid, you can make a starter with apple juice.

To clarify, again it's not necessary to use a starter to step up your yeast when using dry yeast, but I do believe that rehydration is important, and pitching dry yeast directly into must will probably drop your starting cell counts by a half.

DME or LME is a much better media for making a starter, as it definitely has all the nutrients needed. Additionally, while it might be OK for a mead, which is mostly simple sugars, using apple juice or honey to make a starter will turn off some of the yeast enzymes needed to break down more complex di- and polysaccharides like maltose, maltotriose, etc.

I know that you can just toss the packet into the must and, in most cases, everything will be fine. But sometimes things don't go right - like a stuck fermentation. I've also heard that the longer the fermentation lasts, the greater the possibility of off flavors developing (something about "esters"). So maybe throwing the packet in makes a tasty mead, but then again, if I put in the extra effort I can make a mead that tastes even better.

So this is what I'm going to do about 12 hours before I brew: I'm going ahead with the GoFerm rehydration per directions on their website....you know - 1.25 grams per gram of yeast; heat water to 100; add yeast, wait 15 minutes and pitch to a starter. The starter will be a low gravity must, about 1.05, volume about 1qt with a pinch of nutrient. I'll wait until the GoFerm concocton temp and must temp equalize - i'll shoot for about 80.

Hmmm....that actually sounds like a pretty good plan. Helps to talk these things out. :)

I'm glad you're willing to recognize that while you *can* make mead the lazy way, it's worth the effort to do more. I firmly believe that the reason mead has the reputation for having to ferment and age for very long periods before being drinkable or good is because of poor fermentation management. Do it right, and you can drastically reduce your time until ready to drink.

The process you have decided on, as similarly described by others, is sort of a hybrid. You are rehydrating, but then allowing it to sit with some sugar exposure, which I suppose does allow for some yeast growth. Still, I would suspect that your process is not giving you adequate yeast counts, and you could get much more than what you are ending up with in 15 min by simply adding a 2nd packet of yeast into the equation.

I would challenge you to check out some of the pitch rate calculators out there, such as Mr. Malty, and especially YeastCalc, which is what I used to do these calculations:
A single 5 gm packet of yeast has about 100 billion cells. If you make a 1.050 starter (which is a bit high; you would probably be better off with a lower OG for a starter) with 1 LITER (slightly bigger than your quart starter) and add 1 packet of yeast, you will only end up with 148 billion cells. This assumes you actually allow the fermentation to go to completion, and it seems that many of the users of this method, including your own plan, are pitching somewhere during the active fermentation process, and have considerably less cells.

Further consider that what is recommended for a 5 gal batch of a 1.100 OG (a relatively low OG when it comes to mead) fermentation is 337 billion cells! That's more than 15 grams of dry yeast! Indeed, I generally do use three 5 gm packets for my dry yeast fermentations, and this is still under pitching!

I think stuck ferments have way more to do with overly high Starting gravities and/or lack of nutrients.

That said starters and or rehydrating won't hurt.

All true. In some cases, doing some amount of step feeding to minimize the osmotic effect of the OG could be warranted. In addition to proper pitch rates and staggered nutrient additions, getting good aeration (and more preferably, frank oxygenation - the equipment isn't that expensive), degassing during the initial stages of fermentation, and temperature management are very important in producing a great mead more quickly and more reliably.
 
Biochemedic - that's exactly the type of info I was hoping to find. Thank you.

My local brew store said that all I needed to do was pitch the yeast package directly into the must, and that the 5g packet was good for batches from 1 gal to 5 gals. Just to let you know how I started.

So I will take your advice and rehydrate, pitch more yeast and forego the starter. Your explanation is sound.

I am aware of the Mr Malty calculator but I didn't think it was for mead - it didn't have mead as one of the options. I also didn't know what I was doing at the time. I find myself re-reading all this over and over, and as I learn more, other pieces begin to make more sense too. I'll d/l the app. and investigate further.

I thought DME was for beer only...huh.

I've read all the Stickies in this forum, including Hightest's info on SNA. He recommends that 85% of nutrient addition should occur before 30% of the sugar is consumed. And that after 50% of the sugar is consumed, the yeast has trouble processing nitrogen. So, I want to front load my nutrient scheme without starving the yeast.

I have a Mix Stir to degass 2x a day for up to 7 days depending on fermentation activity and SG.

I try to stabilize temperature. My son keeps Bearded Dragons. They require a consistent temp between 90 and 100 within their habitat, which keeps the area around the tanks at 70-72. Most yeast strains, it seems, are happy with this temp, with the exception of D47 which I keep in the kitchen (house temp is 65).

The next thing I want to figure out is pH. I read that a honey must does not buffer well. So I want to try either potassium bicarbonate or potassium carbonate, I don't know which. If you've got any info about buffering, I'd appreciate it.
 
Biochemedic - that's exactly the type of info I was hoping to find. Thank you.

My local brew store said that all I needed to do was pitch the yeast package directly into the must, and that the 5g packet was good for batches from 1 gal to 5 gals. Just to let you know how I started.

So I will take your advice and rehydrate, pitch more yeast and forego the starter. Your explanation is sound.

I am aware of the Mr Malty calculator but I didn't think it was for mead - it didn't have mead as one of the options. I also didn't know what I was doing at the time. I find myself re-reading all this over and over, and as I learn more, other pieces begin to make more sense too. I'll d/l the app. and investigate further.

Basically, I choose Ale when I'm calculating for mead...most wine yeasts are S. cerevisiae (ale) strains, as opposed to S. carlsbergensis (lager) strains. There are some wine yeasts that are other strains such as S. bayanus, but I have no idea how to account for those types of yeast when it comes to pitch rate...perhaps some of our winemaking brethren could help with that...

Mr. Malty is good for helping calculate dry yeast amounts...it can do single starter calculations for liquid yeast starters as well, but I do like YeastCalc better b/c it allows you to calculate multiple step-ups, and has a built in DME calculator (how many oz of DME to add to given volume for desired OG).

I thought DME was for beer only...huh.

I used to think that you should use whatever you were fermenting as a sugar source for the starter, but the yeast actually can easily go from fermenting more complex sugars to simple sugars, but have difficulty transitioning the other way...I started using DME b/c it's really easy to work with, and also I don't have to muck around with adding nutrients like when I made honey starters for meads using liquid yeast...

I've read all the Stickies in this forum, including Hightest's info on SNA. He recommends that 85% of nutrient addition should occur before 30% of the sugar is consumed. And that after 50% of the sugar is consumed, the yeast has trouble processing nitrogen. So, I want to front load my nutrient scheme without starving the yeast.

I have a Mix Stir to degass 2x a day for up to 7 days depending on fermentation activity and SG.

I try to stabilize temperature. My son keeps Bearded Dragons. They require a consistent temp between 90 and 100 within their habitat, which keeps the area around the tanks at 70-72. Most yeast strains, it seems, are happy with this temp, with the exception of D47 which I keep in the kitchen (house temp is 65).

I'm fairly mellow with SNA...I add about a third at the start, another third after I start to see good active fermentation, and the other third about 24 hrs later... Quite frankly, I just don't like all the work, volume loss, and risk of contamination involved with taking serial gravity readings...

Temp control is definitely one of the more difficult things for homebrewers to control, in that to be accurate with it, it requires a lot of extra gear...basically a dedicated fridge and temp controller. I still haven't gotten to where I would eventually like to be with this one...

Be aware that ambient temperature does *not* equal fermentation temperature, especially during active primary...the yeast are tiny, but there's a lot of the buggers, and they produce an amazing amount of heat with their metabolic activity. The internal temp of an active fermentation can be several degrees warmer than ambient... Given that I currently have no good way to externally control temps, I intentionally chill my wort/must to around 62*F or so before pitching so I'm not actually starting at where I would theoretically want to be fermenting at...

The next thing I want to figure out is pH. I read that a honey must does not buffer well. So I want to try either potassium bicarbonate or potassium carbonate, I don't know which. If you've got any info about buffering, I'd appreciate it.

I haven't messed around much with pH directly, in terms of measuring, or trying to correct for it, but as far as I can tell it hasn't been too much of an issue for me. That being said, I do take measures like not adding acid blend until after fermentation is done (and then only as needed, when I feel it will enhance the taste), avoid acidic fruit additions in primary, etc. Actually, pH is the reason why degassing is important...all that CO2 in solution can significantly lower the pH, and getting it out of solution can prevent you from dropping below the threshold of where the acidity can negatively impact the yeast.
 
My "mead making philosophy" has changed during the last week or so. I originally only wanted to make an alcoholic beverage because I thought it would be a cool thing to share with my friends. My approach was to copy the recipies I found here and elsewhere like you do when you make a dinner.

I now think of the yeast as if they were pets, and my job is to create an environment in which they will thrive. That they produce an alcohol is almost incidental. I house them in temperate conditions, feed them nutritious food (no sweets or fast food :)), strive to protect them from hazardous conditions. The challenge is to acquaint myself with this alien environment and recreate it in a white plastic bucket with limited resources and conflicting information without really knowing if what I did actually worked for another six months to a year.

So far it's been a lot of fun.
 
Of course when a beer brewer steps into making something besides beer they bring their beer experience and techs with them and apply them to the new stuff. As a winemaker I do the same thing from my point of view. I can say that you beer guys can have a tendency to make things harder than they are in wine, mead and cider. We basically just go with a whole pack of yeast for 5 of 6 gallons, no calculating yeast rates. We dont think in attenuation but potential alcohol, they hydrometer tells all. Most think about nurturing the yeast, some rehydrate in GoFerm and make a starter which is I think about the equivalent of using a liquid yeast. We also add nutrients to the must which most beer guys dont need to do to a wort. We also dont boil everything in sight :) A little bit of KM saves a lot of work. Also the timing for wine and mead can really be streched out a little bit in the first week, a whole lot after its in a carboy. Looks like you are on the right track accepting new techs. One thing the beer guys dont have to relearn is how to be clean, you guys are paranoid about that and that is something everyone should be skilled at. WVMJ
 
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