Refurbished???

[Craiginthecorn]

I just received a Speidel 10L Braumeister V2 all-in-one brewer from Morebeer.com which was described as

“Used – Refurbished

This unit is used. It has been restored to working order. It will have cosmetic defects and show signs of previous use.”

The word “refurbished” has come to mean less and less over time. Back in the day, that meant that parts that showed evidence of use were repaired, cleaned, or replaced, the item tested, then repackaged and sold as refurbished. Not new, but good as new. More recently, the term ”refurbished” often means little more than “Hey, we think it works and doesn’t look too bad, but it might be missing an accessory or manual, or what have you. And if it doesn’t work, send it back and maybe we can sell it to someone else who is less picky.”

However, morebeer.com has reached new lows with this particular “refurbished“ item. The plug has been cut off!! I wonder how they verified that this one was “restored to working order”, as promised in the listing. My guess? They didn’t. The bottom of the kettle had significant beer stone buildup and the whole unit looked like it had been sitting out next to the grain mill for the last few weeks.

I’ve generally had good experiences with MoreBeer and I will continue to buy from them from time to time, but it disappoints me that they didn’t demonstrate greater integrity in selling this item. It does have a computer-style removable plug, so I suppose it’s possible that they did test it with another cord, but I have my doubts.

 

[hotbeer]

So what did MoreBeer say about the plug being cut off?

If you haven't gotten their answer, then I'd consider this gripe somewhat premature.

 

[Craiginthecorn]

So what did MoreBeer say about the plug being cut off?

If you haven't gotten their answer, then I'd consider this gripe somewhat premature.

They provided an RMA # and a return shipping label, but I had to call them when they hadn’t responded to my ticket 24 hours after submission. The representative said “sorry”, too. I might still end up keeping the thing, even though my head says that would not be smart. I’d already planned to replace the cord, but the general condition of the unit makes me worried about ghosts in the machine that haven’t actually been fixed or even tested. After all, MoreBeer almost certainly knew why the original owner returned it and presumably has repaired or at least tested to prove that there was nothing wrong. I have no idea what the issue might have been and I won’t have the warranty backing me that the original owner did.

 

[Craiginthecorn]

I cobbled together a working plug and gave it a shot. It at least heated and pumped, so I decided to see about cleaning it. Dumped a good hit of a PBW-like cleaner in and let it recirculate for a couple hours at 150F. Big sheets of brown stuff came off and with a little blue scrubbie and toothbrush work, it’s looking pretty clean. Passivating at the moment with citric acid.

 

[hotbeer]

I had a new conical FV I'd bought from them and had troubles with the first two brews with it. Mostly because the ball valve included with it just wasn't designed for the intended use of it with the other included accessories. IMO.

They offered to take it back and give me another new one, however I figured I'd have the same issue with the valve and other PVC parts. But I liked that the FV had steep sides and was appropriate for 2 to 2½ gallons I wish to brew at a time.

So I found a stainless steel npt to 1.5" sanitary flange and got a butterfly valve, sight glass and other sanitary fittings to add to it and am quite happy with it now.

However I'm also quite happy with MoreBeer's response. They at least are responsive to my inquiries and not silent as some others are.

Though I can see where for you it would have been nice if the missing plug had been noted in the description.

 

[Craiginthecorn]

The passivation has left the unit looking pretty much like new inside. Even more ropey brown threads resembling shreds of tobacco freed themselves from somewhere inside the unit. I have to say that this Braumeister seems to live up to its reputation for high build quality. The pump is remarkably quiet. Since it pumps only up from the bottom, rather than through tubes onto the surface of the liquid, there's not even the sound of splashing. It's looking like I'll keep it after all.

This doesn't change my position that the condition was misrepresented by MoreBeer. I'm hoping this is an aberration. Even if their response to my support request had been more satisfying, it wouldn't have changed the fact that the unit was incomplete, not working as delivered, and quite dirty.

 

[McMullan]

My well-used 10-year old BM20 comes up like new every year or two, after a deep clean using hot TSP followed by citric acid. A dishwasher tablet tossed in hot water just above the heating element with pump on is good for cleaning out the pipework. Remove the impeller from the pump after cleaning to check it's clean and free of debris. Top quality wort makers, with all parts replaceable. I haven't had any need to replace any parts in 10 years, though.

 

[hotbeer]

This doesn't change my position that the condition was misrepresented by MoreBeer. I'm hoping this is an aberration. Even if their response to my support request had been more satisfying, it wouldn't have changed the fact that the unit was incomplete, not working as delivered, and quite dirty.

I will agree that such things should be better represented. So make sure that what you've related here is what you told MoreBeer. And make sure to do it in a factual way and not emotional stuff that may or may not make sense.

Your PSA only serves as a rant to me. While I don't doubt your experiences you relate, I can't know if this is just a exception to the normal service of MoreBeer or not. For me they've gone over and above expectations on the few issues I've had.

Ensuring that MoreBeer is aware of all the issues you are griping about is really, IMO a better way to ensure something will hopefully get done about it.

 

[Craiginthecorn]

I will agree that such things should be better represented. So make sure that what you've related here is what you told MoreBeer. And make sure to do it in a factual way and not emotional stuff that may or may not make sense.

Your PSA only serves as a rant to me. While I don't doubt your experiences you relate, I can't know if this is just a exception to the normal service of MoreBeer or not. For me they've gone over and above expectations on the few issues I've had.

Ensuring that MoreBeer is aware of all the issues you are griping about is really, IMO a better way to ensure something will hopefully get done about it.

Whoa, that's a high horse you're riding.

 

[mashpaddled]

It's possible the unit shipped to the original owner with the enclosed cord and what they sold as refurbished was just the original accessory. I believe these units at some point shipped with these cables to give you the option of wiring into a 220v transformer. Still, would have been a helpful detail to include in the listing.

 

[Nate R]

For what it is worth...
These units ship with no cord. They come from Germany where 220V is standard, but plugs are different than ours.
In the description of the unit you purchased, it is notated:

• These units require a 220-230V connection. You should plan on hiring an electrician to install the proper socket and to wire on the appropriate plug.

this is the link to the unit you purchased:

https://www.morebeer.com/products/braumeister-v2-10-1.html
I am not trying to be a jerk, but for a $750 item i would at least read the web page first.

Sounds like Morebeer made it right with the refund offer.

I am glad it worked for you though!
I have always wanted one of thoose machines... i hear they can do a lot!!

Cheers!

 

[McMullan]

One justified criticism against Speidel is they only provide Braumeister power cables with Euro plugs. Even when they're sold outside Europe. It's an issue in the UK, too, where Euro sockets aren't used. It's a bit mean, imo.

 

[Craiginthecorn]

For what it is worth...
These units ship with no cord. They come from Germany where 220V is standard, but plugs are different than ours.
In the description of the unit you purchased, it is notated:

• These units require a 220-230V connection. You should plan on hiring an electrician to install the proper socket and to wire on the appropriate plug.

this is the link to the unit you purchased:

https://www.morebeer.com/products/braumeister-v2-10-1.html

I think you have misinterpreted the information in the listing. These units shipped with a European-style plug, not without any plug at all. The sentence reading "You should plan on hiring an electrician to install the proper socket and to wire on the appropriate plug“ is referring to the fact that the various North American NEMA receptacles are incompatible with the European type F plug provided by Speidel. More importantly, many homes in North America lack any 220V receptacles. My home didn't have any until I installed several 6-20R receptacles in my basement workshop/brewhouse several years back.

I had, in fact, already done my homework and had ordered an inexpensive adapter, which would have allowed the European type F plug, which was originally on this unit, to plug into the NEMA 6-20R receptacles in my brewhouse/workshop. I am quite familiar with 220V wiring and capable of wiring on a plug, but had chosen the adapter option over modifying the unit. The missing type F plug foiled my plan, leaving me pretty exasperated. The fact that MoreBeer support didn't reply to my request in the 24 hours after creating the ticket on a Monday further aggravated me. I guess the sight of those bare wires when I went to plug it into my adapter was a bit of a shock (pun intended)!

In the end, I was able to order a NEMA 6-20P to C13 14 AWG power cord, which is actually a better solution then my original plan.

https://a.co/d/gx3NmTEhttps://a.co/d/chJWSf1

 

[Craiginthecorn]

It's possible the unit shipped to the original owner with the enclosed cord and what they sold as refurbished was just the original accessory. I believe these units at some point shipped with these cables to give you the option of wiring into a 220v transformer. Still, would have been a helpful detail to include in the listing.

I've been researching these units for quite some time. They shipped to the USA in the same configuration that they're sold in Europe, with the standard European type F plug. My best guess is that someone cut it off and presumably had attached a North American-style plug, like a NEMA 14-30, then removed it before returning it to MoreBeer. No transformer is required unless you want to plug it into a 110V receptacle

 

[madscientist451]

Would have been nice if they provided actual photos of what you were buying, the unit likely wasn't refurbished at all. I'm wondering if you had contacted them and asked for photos if they would have sent you some. The fact that they offered a refund makes up for their misrepresentation though. I would have sent it back.

 

[Craiginthecorn]

Would have been nice if they provided actual photos of what you were buying, the unit likely wasn't refurbished at all. I'm wondering if you had contacted them and asked for photos if they would have sent you some. The fact that they offered a refund makes up for their misrepresentation though. I would have sent it back.

Yes. A listing with photos or one just clearly stating that there was no plug would have better prepared me. Yes, I did create a ticket via email and received an auto reply, but in the 24 hours afterwards, I didn't hear back, so I called. The representative was cordial and professional, but didn't request photos or offer any alternative resolutions apart from returning the item.

 

[Craiginthecorn]

I think it's time to bring this discussion to a close. In retrospect, I did probably get overly pissy about the situation, but after taking a step back and reformulating my plan, things have turned out alright so far. I do continue to be concerned that the unit was probably returned for a reason and that since it doesn't appear that MoreBeer actually did anything to refurbish or maybe even test the unit, that problem may still be lurking and waiting to be rediscovered. I probably should have just returned it and saved myself a lot of time, energy, and ongoing worries about a gremlin which may never have actually existed, but after getting it shipshape, I'm gonna cruise my fingers and keep it.

 

[Dancy]

IMO, the word “used” should have been the only word used to describe this unit, meaning MoreBeer should have left the word “refurbished” off the description. Also, the crud build-up, which sounds significant, would make sense given the statement, “…and show signs of previous use.” However, a truly refurbished anything wouldn’t be dirty like that, at least not in my experience. In the end though, it sounds like it ended up being a good buy.