Red X Attenuation

[tyrub42]

Hi everyone!

Just wondering if you typically get lower attenuation with Red X. I've brewed with it quite a bit from 10-80 percent of my grist and never noticed much impact on attenuation, but I just did a SMASH beer with it, and I'm surprised by the attenuation. OG was 1.052 and it's looking like it'll finish at 1.015 for 70 percent attenuation. That may not seem bad, but this brew day included two batches splitting the same vitality starter of yeast slurry(a mix of mostly Conan with a bit of Nottingham), and the other batch was a NEDIPA with lots of oats and wheat, and that got 82 percent attenuation.

I did mash the Red X beer a bit higher (about 154, whereas the DIPA was about 151), but that alone shouldn't have resulted in that much of a difference, especially given the DIPA's higher gravity and all the oats in it.

Anyway, the beer is tasting great and I'm very happy with the overall flavor, but I wanted to see how common this was, and what other people's experience was. This was both my first single malt red x, and my first red X beer mashed this high. Aside from that, both beers were made at the same time, used the same yeast from the same starter, got the same nutrients and aeration method, and fermented at the same temp.

Thanks!
Tyler

 

[NewJersey]

I wanted to make a red x Cascade smash a month ago, but I got to my lhbs and he doesn't carry it anymore. Claimed it was problematic for everyone. Didn't really produce the "red" we were all after.
Your thread is reminding me to order some. AND mash lower, lol. 149 or 150 I guess.
Thanks

 

[SEndorf]

I've had great results from RedX, once I stopped doing single infusion.
Here's a good article about it.
https://nationalhomebrew.com.au/brewers-blog/brewing-with-red-x

 

[Dgallo]

Red x is more or less a mix of basemalt and should have the practically the same fermentability. I’ve never experience low attenuation when using red x (love this malt, I sometimes use it as my base malt in a dark beer for complexity) but I have only ever single malted it once.

From my experience, your mash temp had a lot to do with it. When I mash a beer that is comprised of basemalts and adjuncts (no medium kilned or heavily roasted grain) at 154, I consistently finished at 1.014-1.017.

 

[tyrub42]

I wanted to make a red x Cascade smash a month ago, but I got to my lhbs and he doesn't carry it anymore. Claimed it was problematic for everyone. Didn't really produce the "red" we were all after.
Your thread is reminding me to order some. AND mash lower, lol. 149 or 150 I guess.
Thanks

I've used it a lot and can confirm it absolutely does provide great red color. If you're making a beer with higher tan 1.050 OG the maker recommends using some pils/pale malt, so that's been what I've done with most red x IPAs I've made. They've all come out beautifully ruby red as long as I used gelatin (when I didn't it cleared well once and never cleared the other time).

After my current experience, I'd say just throw in 30 percent pale malt regardless, mash at 150-151, and enjoy a delicious red IPA

 

[tyrub42]

I've had great results from RedX, once I stopped doing single infusion.
Here's a good article about it.
https://nationalhomebrew.com.au/brewers-blog/brewing-with-red-x

I read that earlier. Looks interesting, but with my system, I massively prefer doing a single infusion. I guess as long as I add a small percentage of pale base malt it won't be a problem again. This was pretty surprising for me, though

 

[tyrub42]

Red x is more or less a mix of basemalt and should have the practically the same fermentability. I’ve never experience low attenuation when using red x (love this malt, I sometimes use it as my base malt in a dark beer for complexity) but I have only ever single malted it once.

From my experience, your mash temp had a lot to do with it. When I mash a beer that is comprised of basemalts and adjuncts (no medium kilned or heavily roasted grain) at 154, I consistently finished at 1.014-1.017.

Thanks! That's interesting. What are your beers starting at when they finish in that range? For me to get an FG like that at that temp with any yeast blend with Nottingham in it I'd be starting at like 1.070+

Wondering if Red X is more sensitive to higher mash temps for some reason.

 

[Brettomomyces]

Red x is more or less a mix of basemalt and should have the practically the same fermentability. I’ve never experience low attenuation when using red x (love this malt, I sometimes use it as my base malt in a dark beer for complexity) but I have only ever single malted it once.

From my experience, your mash temp had a lot to do with it. When I mash a beer that is comprised of basemalts and adjuncts (no medium kilned or heavily roasted grain) at 154, I consistently finished at 1.014-1.017.

Rumor is Red-X was a batch of Munich that went south and it took them awhile to recreate their happy accident. I'm pretty sure it's not a blend just by looking at it.

 

[RocketBrewer]

I love red-x malt, but I've also had higher than expected FG's

 

[tyrub42]

Welp, the beer is now down to 1.014. Odd since it's been fermenting for 13 days (the NEDIPA was at FG in like 5 or 6 days). I may have to delay bottling to wait for gravity to stabilize.

Been an odd journey but I'll post the FG when it's actually confirmed. Expecting it to either stay at 1.014 or get to 1.013. I was hoping for 1.012 and expecting 1.010-1.012 so at this point it's just slightly higher than target. The beer itself is tasting amazing and I'm pretty excited to try it cleared, and carbed, so that's good.

Thanks, everyone!

 

[tyrub42]

Officially stopped at 1.014 (actually slightly under but close enough), so just a couple of points above target. Lesson learned, in the future I'll mash low if I do a red x smash

 

[thehaze]

I did one smash with Red X and FG was 1.010. I do mash most smaller, crisper beers at 147-149F, just because I don't want a lot of residual sweetness in there. 1.010 was decent, although for that particular beer I would've preferred 1.008-1.009.Nitpicking...I guess.

 

[tyrub42]

I did one smash with Red X and FG was 1.010. I do mash most smaller, crisper beers at 147-149F, just because I don't want a lot of residual sweetness in there. 1.010 was decent, although for that particular beer I would've preferred 1.008-1.009.Nitpicking...I guess.

I hear ya. Sort of how I feel landing at 1.014 instead of 1.012. I probably wouldn't like it any more at 1.012 but it's just nice to get to your target.

Just curious, what was your og and yeast for that beer?

 

[Dgallo]

If you mashed 154 and landed 1.014, that’s perfect. If you went 1.010-1.012 I’d tell you your thermometer must be off. 154 mash will typically end 1.014-1.016 with using 2row or Pilsner as the base, so you’re attenuation seems right on the money

Also you said you used a Conan Strain which are 73-75% attenuation and you hit 73% flat. So you’re good man

 

[thehaze]

OG was 1.046 and yeast was Nottingham ( dry from Lallemand ). I usually can get under 1.010 for these types of beer, using either Nottingham or US-05, but didn't quite happen that time. Anyway, the beer was really good and the lower ABV really helped with the drinkability. It was a sort of an English Amber Bitter kind of beer, with Brewers Gold, First Gold and some EKG. Cheers.

 

[VikeMan]

Officially stopped at 1.014 (actually slightly under but close enough), so just a couple of points above target. Lesson learned, in the future I'll mash low if I do a red x smash

Your results are not surprising at all. Red X is more highly kilned than typical base malts, so a wort made from it will be less attenuable than, say, pilsner. (In my software, I have it set to about 90% as attenuable as pilsner, which looks pretty consistent with the result you got.)

Lowering mash temperature (to a point) is indeed a way to increase attenuabilty. You can also lengthen the mash time, or of course you could use a more attenuative yeast strain

 

[tyrub42]

OG was 1.046 and yeast was Nottingham ( dry from Lallemand ). I usually can get under 1.010 for these types of beer, using either Nottingham or US-05, but didn't quite happen that time. Anyway, the beer was really good and the lower ABV really helped with the drinkability. It was a sort of an English Amber Bitter kind of beer, with Brewers Gold, First Gold and some EKG. Cheers.

Nottingham is probably the yeast I use most, so that's great info, thanks!