Red Star Champagne Yeast Barleywine

[grssmnperez]

what is making you thin that the yeast quit? that picture doesn't tell me anything.

have you re-pitched an ale yeast? if you're still only on champagne yeast, you should expect it to quit... per the advice everyone has given you in this thread.

Is it too late to pitch if i go to lhbs in the morning? This is my first experience with a big beer like this so my research prior to brewing has only taken me so far until this point. I dont want to make excuses but i am serving in the military and it has been a nightmare to get out of work in time for my lhbs to still be open.

 

[sweetcell]

Probably isn't too late. The champagne yeast converted the simple sugars into alcohol, so that should prevent most nasties from getting a foothold. Buy some high-gravity yeast, make a big starter, and pitch at high krausen (which means likely not before tomorrow morning).

Champagne yeast is typically used two ways in high gravity brewing: 1. After the ale yeast has pooped out b/c the alcohol is too high (10-12%), champagne yeast can be used to continue to convert simple sugars into alcohol. This allows you to get above that 12% limit. (aside: you need to do a lot more than just this to get above 12%: proper pitching and O2 aeration, for example). 2. At bottling time, some people add a small amount of champagne yeast to ensure carbonation. This is often needed if the high gravity beer has been bulk aged for a long time.

Best of luck. I hope this has been helpful!

 

[weremichael]

I believe that champagne yeast is a "killer" strain and will kill other yeasts (including an ale strain). If you listen to the Shea Comfort interview on the Brewing Network, he goes into great detail about wine yeasts in beer.

 

[Calder]

I've never fermented with champagne yeast. From everything I have read, it will only consume the simple sugars. From your pictures, it looks like it is done and the yeast is dropping out. Can you take a gravity reading and post it. A lot of folks will be interested in this real life experiment with the yeast aand how far it has taken it down.

Now .... how to take it down further! Yes, champagne yeast is a killer strain, and will make it difficult for an ale strain to survive. You probably need to leave it alone for a couple of weeks to let most of the champagne yeast drop out. This will give an ale yeast a chance. Rack the beer off the yeast.

Next, as previously said, get a high gravity yeast, 099, or something that can run up to 15% or above, but not distillers yeast.

Make a decent sized starter. A half gallon. Aerate well to get the yeast population high. When the starter is going well, add half a gallon of the beer to the starter. This will get the yeast used to the high alcohol environment. When that is going well (probably the next day), add the whole gallon back to the main batch. Place in the corner and leave it alone for a few weeks. It could take a while to finish as you will not have the optimum number of cells to do the job.

Don't worry about getting things done quickly. The high gravity will provide plenty of protection for the beer. Have patience.

 

[grssmnperez]

It appears that it already has dropped out.

 

[cmybeer]

You take a hydrometer reading? I'm curious as to what that will get you down to.
It should be fine just sitting there as is until you can get some ale yeast and pitch that.

 

[grssmnperez]

On my way to lhbs to pickup yeast. I will take reading right before i pitch.

 

[sweetcell]

View attachment 65034

It appears that it already has dropped out.

there is still plenty of yeast in suspension. most has dropped out, but not all.

you could look into campden tablets, maybe? they'll kill the yeast, but i don't know how long their effect lasts. you want to kill the champagne yeast, but still have an environment that is hospitable to the ale yeast afterwards. time to start searching through the forum!

On my way to lhbs to pickup yeast. I will take reading right before i pitch.

awesome, let us know what you measure.

 

[grssmnperez]

Here we go. Numbers will be up shortly.

 

[grssmnperez]

Here ya go!

 

[grssmnperez]

I just took a peek at the carboy and i am seeing signs of co2 coming up to the top in the form of tiny bubbles. The yeast starter looks and smells to be taking well to the amylase treated wort. Lets just hope it finishes the job in the carboy for this primary ferm while im in new york until mid july.

 

[killian]

So pretty much all i can do is put in a yeast that is for high abv like super HG yeast or distiller and some beano tablets to convert the inedible sugars?

Beano contains alpha galactosidase and invertase enzymes, amylase enzyme should be quicker and more consistent than beano. If you pitch that ale yeast and it still doesnt finish I would rack a gallon or two off then add the enzyme and blend when it finishes out.

 

[grssmnperez]

It looks like it may have restarted.

 

[niquejim]

"Grains & Adjuncts
Amount Percentage Name Time Gravity
12.00 lbs 64.86 % Munton's Light LME 60 mins 1.037
2.00 lbs 10.81 % Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L 60 mins 1.034
1.50 lbs 8.11 % Maize, Flaked 60 mins 1.037
1.00 lbs 5.41 % Briess Rye Malt 60 mins 1.035
1.00 lbs 5.41 % Briess Barley, Flaked 60 mins 1.035
1.00 lbs 5.41 % Cara-Pils/Dextrine 60 mins 1.033"

There is no malt to convert all the specialty malts. I will be surprised if this finishes as you hope

 

[grssmnperez]

This is after pitching a big starter of wlp 099 SHG

 

[grssmnperez]

Second ferment anyone?

 

[sweetcell]

woohoo - congrats! do let us know what the FG is in a week or two.

you're going to have to wait this guy out for a while: at 12%, chances are it'll taste very "hot" when fresh. i'd give it several weeks in primary, several more weeks (up to several months) in secondary, and then it'll benefit from additional months in bottles/keg to mellow out. i would suggest letting it bulk age in secondary as long as you can spare the carboy, and add the wood chips during the last two weeks of that period. big barleywines like this one often don't peak for 6 or 12 months (or more).

 

[grssmnperez]

woohoo - congrats! do let us know what the FG is in a week or two.

you're going to have to wait this guy out for a while: at 12%, chances are it'll taste very "hot" when fresh. i'd give it several weeks in primary, several more weeks (up to several months) in secondary, and then it'll benefit from additional months in bottles/keg to mellow out. i would suggest letting it bulk age in secondary as long as you can spare the carboy, and add the wood chips during the last two weeks of that period. big barleywines like this one often don't peak for 6 or 12 months (or more).

I was thinking about christmas time or so. I just cant believe i got it going again, i thought it was over and id be stuck with a super sweet monster that would take two years or more to even be palatable.

 

[sweetcell]

xmas time should be about right. save a few bottles if you can, and try some on the one year anniversary of the batch. take notes!

if a beer comes out really sweet, aging won't change that much. hops fade, a few off-flavors fade... but sugars (sweetness) stay put for the most part.

 

[grssmnperez]

That is true. Im pretty sure the sweetness is gonna go with the second ferment. The og was 1.120 and the last recorded i posted a pic of i believe its 1.050 any abv predictions? Im thinking around 13%

 

[sweetcell]

yeah, that second fermentation should chew things down to the point that it isn't a sugar bomb.

to get to 13%, you'd need to hit 1.024 for an apparent attenuation of 80%. considering the amount of crystal in your recipe, plus the fact that it's all extract, i find it unlikely that you'll hit those number - not impossible, but unlikely. 75% might be a more realistic "stretch goal" for attenuation: 1.030 & 12.1% ABV. considering what this brew has been through, 70% (1.036, 11.26%) should be viewed a victory IMO.

 

[grssmnperez]

yeah, that second fermentation should chew things down to the point that it isn't a sugar bomb.

to get to 13%, you'd need to hit 1.024 for an apparent attenuation of 80%. considering the amount of crystal in your recipe, plus the fact that it's all extract, i find it unlikely that you'll hit those number - not impossible, but unlikely. 75% might be a more realistic "stretch goal" for attenuation: 1.030 & 12.1% ABV. considering what this brew has been through, 70% (1.036, 11.26%) should be viewed a victory IMO.

Ill take that all day long. Like you said, considering what this brew has been through. It was brought back from the brink i think. I am concerned about carbonation because i plan on bottling it in late august possibly september. Will there be enough yeast leftover to eat the priming sugar. I assume it will take a long time to carb up.

 

[bottlebomber]

That's where you can bring your Redstar back in to the equation just rehydrate a small amount, and mix it with your priming sugar a little while before you rack your beer in the bottling bucket. I definitely wouldn't leave it to fate that this will bottle condition with the latent yeast.

 

[drawdy10]

Is it necessary or possible to portion those little packets of dry yeast? Is it safe to open one then store it for later use of the rest? I am assuming that the amount of yeast doesn't affect carbonation nearly as much as the amount of priming sugar, provided that there is at least enough yeast to eat up the sugars that you added. I once put an entire packet of the red star into the bottling bucket as well as the priming sugar and it turned out well, I am assuming that I just used an unnecessarily large population of priming yeast? Would you say try to use half or a third of a packet, or even less??

 

[bottlebomber]

A quarter packet should do ya

 

[grssmnperez]

Its still going!



This is as of last night.

 

[grssmnperez]

Here is my FG reading. It started at 1.120.

 

[bottlebomber]

That 099 is fun stuff. I used it to finish up an IPA that was OG 1.120, and I got this

 

[sweetcell]

HOLY CRAP!!!

that looks like 1.005 to me... if i'm right, that's 95.8% attenuation for 15.8% ABV!!!

yeah, christmas is the earliest i'd want to touch this one. age as long as you can... then enjoy! and congrats!

 

[cmybeer]

Good God that is a low FG for a beer that big! How did it taste? I'm wondering if a Barleywine that big and boozy will be any good with that low a gravity.