Recommendations on where to buy Extract ingredients

[sixstring]

So I have been brewing from kits since I began brewing last year. Never had a bad batch and thoroughly enjoyed them all.
I've always bought the Brewers Best kits and recently I've been thinking about just buying the ingredients myself. Since I don't need the bottle caps, the sugar, etc that always comes with the kits. I just need the hops, DME/LME, grains and yeast from the recipes. (Brewers Best display their recipes on their website, which I really do love about them too. It's great they're sharing what's in their kits so people can try and emulate them).

So two questions:
What places do you recommend for buying your ingredients in bulk? (I'm more than happy to buy enough for ten 5 gallon brew days or more at a time)

and can I substitute LME for DME when a recipe asks to use LME? As I've read that the shelf life on DME is better, so if I buy in bulk, it'll keep better than LME.

 

[IslandLizard]

can I substitute LME for DME when a recipe asks to use LME?

You mean: substitute DME for LME?
Yes, easily:
Conversion factor 0.8 DME : 1.0 LME (by weight, of course).

Keep the DME dry, that's very important, it's hygroscopic... seal that bag well or even double bag. Ziplock works well.
Store cool and dry.
Best not to refrigerate or freeze, for the same reason: it will stick to anything that's damp, such as condensation on a bag fresh from the fridge/freezer.

As I've read that the shelf life on DME is better, so if I buy in bulk, it'll keep better than LME.

Absolutely!
I have some DME left that's over 5 years old now. It's still a loose powder, flows like sand, no clumps, and tasting as fresh as the day I bought it. It's stored in a well sealing bucket (screw-on lid with a rubber seal in the groove). It was mainly used for making yeast starters.

That said, if I were in your situation, I would still brew all-grain, split the 5 gallon batch and do two 2.0 or 2.5 gallon batches instead. Just to get well-versed with the various all-grain techniques involved, making it just a bit easier using smaller volumes. You can always use different hops and/or a different specialty malt in the remaining half.

The past 3 years I've been brewing many "half" batches (2.5-3 gallons) because I prefer more variety over a larger volume of the same.

 

[sixstring]

Thanks Sir.
Found a calc to help with those fun conversions
https://www.brewersfriend.com/lme-dme-conversion-calculator/

Well, I don't intend on keeping DME around that long (unless the Anvil Foundry doesn't come back in stock for another 5 years haha). But I'd like to buy enough in bulk so I have enough on hand to brew 5 or 6 batches before I buy more. I have a Brewers Best favourite (the English Pale Ale) and would like to be able to brew more of that without the kits. I've thrown out so many bottle caps now Decided to cut down on the waste and just get the ingredients.

 

[IslandLizard]

Found a calc to help with those fun conversions
https://www.brewersfriend.com/lme-dme-conversion-calculator/

Oh yeah! Brewersfriend has (brewing) calculators for about everything brewing/fermenting.
Psst... they're affiliated with HBT... (We have a direct link to them in the top bar: BREWING SOFTWARE)

Well, I don't intend on keeping DME around that long (unless the Anvil Foundry doesn't come back in stock for another 5 years haha). But I'd like to buy enough in bulk so I have enough on hand to brew 5 or 6 batches before I buy more.

Well let's hope you won't have to wait that long.

I have a Brewers Best favourite (the English Pale Ale)

I could not find any information to the yeast they supply with that kit.
Is it Safale S-04? That's a standard British strain often used in kits. It's a good tasting, easy to use yeast, that usually performs well.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

What places do you recommend for buying your ingredients in bulk? (I'm more than happy to buy enough for ten 5 gallon brew days or more at a time)

A 5 gal OG 55 batch is roughly 6# of DME (plus grains); so roughly 60# of DME in the order. It appears that some shippers have a surcharge for heavy orders so it may be less expensive to split the order into two.

I would start with online stores close to you (Williams, other stores in the SW USA). Moving out into the Great Plains & Great Lakes region, I've used MoreBeer, HomeBrew Ohio , Farm House Brewing, and RiteBrew).

Some stores (RiteBrew, Brew Hardware) have a lower item cost and charge for shipping based on weight and distance. These stores can be meaningfully less expensive than stores that use 'flat rate' shipping - but what works for one person (in the Midwest or North East) may not work for you in AZ.

A number of the stores mentioned (Williams, HomeBrew Ohio, Farm House Brewing, Brew Hardware) are HomeBrewTalk sponsors.

 

[mac_1103]

I don't intend on keeping DME around that long (unless the Anvil Foundry doesn't come back in stock for another 5 years haha)

You could try some partial mash batches while you're waiting. Brewer's Best calls this "steep-to-convert." Their NEIPA kit is one example.

 

[sixstring]

I could not find any information to the yeast they supply with that kit.
Is it Safale S-04? That's a standard British strain often used in kits. It's a good tasting, easy to use yeast, that usually performs well.

Honestly I don't know as I never paid any attention to the yeast. I would recognize the packet though anywhere.
found it: Apex London Ale Yeast
https://www.williamsbrewing.com/Hom...QRNZvX3NLHryR2UVmi35hDQeIAYV6dmamR9Su9VpwPDgE

A 5 gal OG 55 batch is roughly 6# of DME (plus grains); so roughly 60# of DME in the order. It appears that some shippers have a surcharge for heavy orders so it may be less expensive to split the order into two.

I would start with online stores close to you (Williams, other stores in the SW USA). Moving out into the Great Plains & Great Lakes region, I've used MoreBeer, HomeBrew Ohio , Farm House Brewing, and RiteBrew).

Some stores (RiteBrew, Brew Hardware) have a lower item cost and charge for shipping based on weight and distance. These stores can be meaningfully less expensive than stores that use 'flat rate' shipping - but what works for one person (in the Midwest or North East) may not work for you in AZ.

A number of the stores mentioned (Williams, HomeBrew Ohio, Farm House Brewing, Brew Hardware) are HomeBrewTalk sponsors.

Thanks for the info Brewn. I've used Williams, Morebeer and Brewhardware a plenty, but I'll take a look at more. It's always good to have a nice variation of sources to pick from.

You could try some partial mash batches while you're waiting. Brewer's Best calls this "steep-to-convert." Their NEIPA kit is one example.

ok, this is new. I'll check that kit out. I love IPA's so it's a nice excuse to brew my first one.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Steep-to-convert (link) instructions are here.

The problem with mini-mashing (small amounts of malt) is temperature control. Heating during the mash doesn't solve that problem. A preheated oven does.

If one is 'stove top' brewing 5 gal batches using DME, it's likely a 'partial boil with late additions' - roughly half the DME and water up front, the rest at the end of end of the boil. How to Brew, 4e refers to the first half as 'wort a' and the second half as 'wort b'.

One can brew a partial-mash 5 gal batch with
1) 'wort a' was a 2.5 gal BIAB batch, then
2) adding the 'wort b' ingredients at the end of the boil.

The weight of the grains for a 2.5 gal BIAB batch is 90% of temperature control. Insulating the kettle and lid gets one to +/- 2F. A 'mash' cap gets on to +/- 1F, although I often see no change.

Assuming Palmer's new book /1/ (not yet in the USA) is about 2.5 (or 3.0) gal stove top BIAB batches, the 'wort a' / 'wort b' approach above should be come a very common way for people to stove top brew 5 gal batches with 3 gal equipment.

---

/1/ see links to other books on the top left side of howtobrew.com (which is now 3rd edition with some 2025 updates by the author).

 

[Broken Crow]

First: Thanks for the unwarranted praise in another old thread, but I must refute it: I haven't been an expert at anything for 11 years now. Though brewing books cover topics in broad strokes, I truly learned everything I know about brewing on this site and then experimenting with what I was taught to make it empirical. My only expertise is in predicting human behaviour, so in that vein:
As to the ingerdients.... This might be a time to reassess your approach; You've recently moved to kegging and now set up your fermenter to do closed-transfers. You are likely now to taste for yourself, the difference between your previous open-transferred brews and your more recent ones without O2 exposure. You may wish to revisit your choice to stick with extract. To relate;
Like you I started with extract on the stovetop and open transfers to a bottling bucket. My own move to kegging owed to what I read on here about oxydation and I really didn't believe it made that much difference, but as a large part of my own reasons for brewing are to re-learn lost skills and try and learn new ones (as well as relearn my own senses! ) I moved to closed-transfers and the difference in taste was immediately apparent! - Hey; Those folk with O2CD really are on to something! In parallel, being lucky to have a LHBS that keeps an extensive stock in fresh ingredients and puts together thier own kits; available in both extract (often with steeping grains) and all-grain versions of the same brew, I tried both on my stovetop before moving to kegging, specifically: Since they were kind enough to share a .pdf collection of all their recipes, I made my own amber ale from DME and hops that I had on hand without the steeping grains thier kit provided...it was good. Out of curiousity I bought thier kit with the steeping grains and it was great......then I bought thier all-grain kit, and though it was hell handling the bag, the beer was excellent... I didn't think it could get any better, and this was O2-exposed and bottled. Once I built my first electric keggle and had moved to kegging, I brewed it again (note: BIAB and my own keggle are a nightmarish combo!) and having the beer with no O2 exposure sent me to heaven!
To sum up: Every step in parallel from extract to AG and open to closed transfers was a very worthwhile broadening of my horizons and each step proved worthy and desirable of pursuit. I get the feeling this may happen to you too, so my recommendation is that while you are sourcing fresh DME and hops by the pound (perhaps with a vacuum sealer to store in your freezer), also start looking at grain-mills and grain storage bins as unmilled grain has a good long shelf life too.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

You may wish to revisit your choice to stick with extract.

My current understanding is that @sixstring is looking into DME until the desired AIO is back in stock.

---

Certainly, learn to brew all-grain. But ...

... don't be too quick to discard brewing with DME - in the future, one might want (or need) a shorter brew day. Consider

1. Canoe-Chuck Lager,
2. link, and
3. Flash Brewing™ kits.

 

[sixstring]

Steep-to-convert (link) instructions are here.

The problem with mini-mashing (small amounts of malt) is temperature control. Heating during the mash doesn't solve that problem. A preheated oven does.

If one is 'stove top' brewing 5 gal batches using DME, it's likely a 'partial boil with late additions' - roughly half the DME and water up front, the rest at the end of end of the boil. How to Brew, 4e refers to the first half as 'wort a' and the second half as 'wort b'.

One can brew a partial-mash 5 gal batch with
1) 'wort a' was a 2.5 gal BIAB batch, then
2) adding the 'wort b' ingredients at the end of the boil.

The weight of the grains for a 2.5 gal BIAB batch is 90% of temperature control. Insulating the kettle and lid gets one to +/- 2F. A 'mash' cap gets on to +/- 1F, although I often see no change.

Assuming Palmer's new book /1/ (not yet in the USA) is about 2.5 (or 3.0) gal stove top BIAB batches, the 'wort a' / 'wort b' approach above should be come a very common way for people to stove top brew 5 gal batches with 3 gal equipment.

---

/1/ see links to other books on the top left side of howtobrew.com (which is now 3rd edition with some 2025 updates by the author).

View attachment 875562

I actually have that book in it's latest edition (4e) (got it for xmas). But I am guilty of not reading it yet. I need to, as i've skimmed through it and it's got what looks like a tonne of good info. However, like Crow, I've learnt all my brewing skills so far from this site and by doing.
But I do need to sit and read it more thoroughly.

I'll take a peek at this wort a/b approach in there. Thanks.

First: Thanks for the unwarranted praise in another old thread, but I must refute it: I haven't been an expert at anything for 11 years now. Though brewing books cover topics in broad strokes, I truly learned everything I know about brewing on this site and then experimenting with what I was taught to make it empirical. My only expertise is in predicting human behaviour, so in that vein:
As to the ingerdients.... This might be a time to reassess your approach; You've recently moved to kegging and now set up your fermenter to do closed-transfers. You are likely now to taste for yourself, the difference between your previous open-transferred brews and your more recent ones without O2 exposure. You may wish to revisit your choice to stick with extract. To relate;
Like you I started with extract on the stovetop and open transfers to a bottling bucket. My own move to kegging owed to what I read on here about oxydation and I really didn't believe it made that much difference, but as a large part of my own reasons for brewing are to re-learn lost skills and try and learn new ones (as well as relearn my own senses! ) I moved to closed-transfers and the difference in taste was immediately apparent! - Hey; Those folk with O2CD really are on to something! In parallel, being lucky to have a LHBS that keeps an extensive stock in fresh ingredients and puts together thier own kits; available in both extract (often with steeping grains) and all-grain versions of the same brew, I tried both on my stovetop before moving to kegging, specifically: Since they were kind enough to share a .pdf collection of all their recipes, I made my own amber ale from DME and hops that I had on hand without the steeping grains thier kit provided...it was good. Out of curiousity I bought thier kit with the steeping grains and it was great......then I bought thier all-grain kit, and though it was hell handling the bag, the beer was excellent... I didn't think it could get any better, and this was O2-exposed and bottled. Once I built my first electric keggle and had moved to kegging, I brewed it again (note: BIAB and my own keggle are a nightmarish combo!) and having the beer with no O2 exposure sent me to heaven!
To sum up: Every step in parallel from extract to AG and open to closed transfers was a very worthwhile broadening of my horizons and each step proved worthy and desirable of pursuit. I get the feeling this may happen to you too, so my recommendation is that while you are sourcing fresh DME and hops by the pound (perhaps with a vacuum sealer to store in your freezer), also start looking at grain-mills and grain storage bins as unmilled grain has a good long shelf life too.

I will take a look at the grain mills and unmilled grain too then. As I do think you've walked the same/similar path to the one I'm heading down. I just find all the steps in the process rather fascinating and the end product just keeps getting better and better.

My current understanding is that @sixstring is looking into DME until the desired AIO is back in stock.

---

Certainly, learn to brew all-grain. But ...

... don't be too quick to discard brewing with DME - in the future, one might want (or need) a shorter brew day. Consider

1. Canoe-Chuck Lager,
2. link, and
3. Flash Brewing™ kits.

Yup, that's exactly right. Just trying to even find something that is about the same cost or maybe ever so slightly less than a Brewers Best kit. And if that means buying a bit more of the ingredients for my EPA or maybe an Oktoberfest that matches the Brewers Best kits ingredients then I don't mind doing so. As I will use them regardless. I won't discard Extract altogether, as while BIAB will be fun, there will definitely be times I don't want to take as long. So Extract will still be on my radar, and if my BIAB doesn't give me that Brewers Best EPA extract kit goodness, then I'll always be brewing that one regardless of anything else i BIAB. But my options remain wide, since there's always a chance the foundry will go wrong and need repair too. I'm not going to stop brewing when I need to just because it's broken Kitchen stove is perfect for extract brewing.

 

[WouldBeBrewmaster]

That's not a bad way to do it. I probably brew with extract than most experienced brewers. I like being able to work in a shorter brew day every once in awhile, not have to clean out a mash tun and dispose of spent grain. Extract does have limitations and there are some styles that I will only brew all grain, or at least partial mash if I was brewing on a stovetop. Or if there is a specific base malt I want to use, I'll do all grain.

With extract, freshness is paramount. Especially for LME. As LME ages there is a slow maillard reaction caused by the sugars and amino acids swimming around in sticky goo. That's what makes old LME darken and pick up off flavors.