Recommend me some warm ferments.

[ramthebuffs]

I'm looking at a 75ish fermentation temp. Would I be safe with pretty much any belgian style? Maybe yeast variety matters as much as brewing style? I was kind of thinking about going with a wit until I get a mini-fridge for fermentation. Any thoughts or links would be appreciated.

 

[WorryWort]

I don't think it's fair to say you'll be fine with ANY belgian style.

Can you not find a way to cool it down slightly? Check out this thread.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/first-post-temp-control-127210/

 

[ramthebuffs]

Yeah the plan is to find a dorm fridge on craigslist, I'm just itching to get something brewed until I find something.

 

[WortMonger]

A towel wrapped around the fermenter and placed in a tub of water works good. Put a fan blowing on it for even better temperature. The water wicks up the towel and cooles the whole way around the fermenter. In a room at 75*F you could get the fermenter down to probably 68-70*F no problem.

 

[arturo7]

You could try a Saison. Don't let it get above 85 deg.

 

[MBasile]

A lot of the white labs belgian yeasts will work up into the mid 70's

 

[syd138]

From what I've read in Brew Like A Monk, some of the trappist breweries ferment close to 80 for the first couple of days.

I personally just made a pretty good Belgian Black Ale and the temp in my apartment was close to 78. The higher you go the fruitier it gets. Especially if you're using Wyeast 1388 like I did.

 

[WorryWort]

Yeah the plan is to find a dorm fridge on craigslist, I'm just itching to get something brewed until I find something.

Read that post. The towel, the t-shirts, the cooler with water. there are a lot of sub $20 options to get the temps down.

 

[ChshreCat]

+1 on the saison. I'm brewing one next month.

 

[Arkador]

+1 on the saison. I'm brewing one next month.

Another + from me on the Saison....

or do a swamp cooler, you probably have everything laying arround the house, and that will get you into the upper 60's

I used a rubbermaid tote, water, tshirt, and filled water bottles that i froze and swapped regurlarly.

 

[CrunkBoner]

I have brewed 10 batches now in the mid to high 70's because I have no fermentation temp control. Don't anybody yell at me, but except for a couple I haven't even chilled in a tub with icewater or used the wet t-shirt method.

I'm sure my beer is going to get a lot better when I find a chest freezer, but I can tell you that my all-grain Roggenbier and Patersbier (both of them NB kits) turned out great. Jamil's Amber-Red and Lefty Blonde from BCS turned out very good too but I didn't carb them enough. I can't really tell if there are other problems in those two that are related to high ferment temps.

 

[Chello]

I'v also had good results using US-05 in the low to mid 70's. Been making pale ale's all summer with no noticeable off flavors.

 

[Ketchepillar]

You could try a Saison. Don't let it get above 85 deg.

I disagree. I am drinking my saison right now which I fermented at 88F. I think I've heard Saison Dupont gets kicked up near 90F at some point during the process as well.

 

[ChshreCat]

I disagree. I am drinking my saison right now which I fermented at 88F. I think I've heard Saison Dupont gets kicked up near 90F at some point during the process as well.

The problem is that some of the saison yeasts will slow down or even stop fermenting above 85 or so. It's not that you can't brew them warmer than that, or that they turn out bad. It's just that they can be troublesome.

 

[gxm]

Wyeast VSS yeasts 3711 and 3739 will work in the mid-70s - Wyeast Laboratories : VSS : Private Collection of Brewing Yeast for making Beer
And their regular Saison, 3724, is listed at 70-95.

White Labs has a temperature chart for their Belgians - http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/belgianchart.pdf
Note the sulphur & solvent in the high temp range. All the sulphury beers I've brewed have lost the sulphur within about a month. I've only done a couple solventy ones, and that seems to take longer to go away.

You can convert between WL & Wyeast here- Yeast Strains

 

[syd138]

I have brewed 10 batches now in the mid to high 70's because I have no fermentation temp control. Don't anybody yell at me, but except for a couple I haven't even chilled in a tub with icewater or used the wet t-shirt method.

I'm sure my beer is going to get a lot better when I find a chest freezer, but I can tell you that my all-grain Roggenbier and Patersbier (both of them NB kits) turned out great. Jamil's Amber-Red and Lefty Blonde from BCS turned out very good too but I didn't carb them enough. I can't really tell if there are other problems in those two that are related to high ferment temps.

If you're doing Belgians or Weisses.. you're fine in the high 70's. I wouldn't worry about it. If you start getting up to 90 then you're screwed.

 

[arturo7]

I disagree. I am drinking my saison right now which I fermented at 88F. I think I've heard Saison Dupont gets kicked up near 90F at some point during the process as well.

I made two batches of Saison with Wyeast 3724, fermented around 90F. I thought the first may have been contaminated so I tried another. Both were undrinkable.

 

[ramthebuffs]

Thanks for the help guys, I picked up everything today. I went with the 3726 Farmhouse Saison.

 

[Pappers_]

You could try a Saison. Don't let it get above 85 deg.

+ 1

Also look at the White Labs site - great info!

 

[WorryWort]

here's good article on temp control i just found.

It won't tell you what to brew. But rather than brewing around the temps, I think you should find a way to control them.

Brew Your Own: The How-To Homebrew Beer Magazine - Techniques - Controlling Fermentation Temperature: Techniques

 

[gxm]

But rather than brewing around the temps, I think you should find a way to control them.

As homebrewers we have the flexibility to use primitive processes, and I find some of them very satisfying. I know I'm not truly primitive (I use modern malts, hops, yeast, sanitizer, fermenter, pots...), but I still get pleasure out of things like pitching to a yeast cake and brewing with the seasons.

So right now some of my beers are brewing at ambient basement temps, and I've also got a lager going in the kegerator and a lagering refrigerator with this fall's Octoberfest among others.

My roundabout point is this isn't really an either or choice. You can do both. It's your beer.

 

[syd138]

I know I'm not truly primitive (I use modern malts, hops, yeast, sanitizer, fermenter, pots...), but I still get pleasure out of things like pitching to a yeast cake and brewing with the seasons.

Agreed. People have been brewing beer with the seasons for hundreds of years..
There is something kind of nice of adding that bit of randomness around your beer. It would be kind of boring if my beer tasted exactly the same every time. I like having slightly different flavors due to different temps.

The weisse that I brewed up in February is very different than the one I brewed up in June.. but they are both good.

Think about how boring wine would be if every year was the same.

 

[rasherb]

You could do a mead. 75 is optimal for mead.
....of course you won't be able to drink it until February....

 

[ramthebuffs]

I guess I could give the recipe...Basically from brewing classic styles.

11lb Pils
.75lb Wheat
.75lb Munich
1lb table sugar at 15 mins

Mash at 148 for 90 mins.

Hallertau 5.3% 1.75ish @ 60 and .75ish at flame-out.

Yeast 3726 Farmhouse Saison taken from LHBS from some repitch lab or something that I'm not used to. Starter from 9am to boil, approx 13hrs. Then in the fridge to floc during the boil.

2 days of 68ish, currently in 75 for a few days. Then to a hotter room should hit 80 I think. Then warmer if I can find it...

OG was around 1062 after temp adjstments.(1050ish @ 80deg preboil)

I'm guessing this is a single long fermentation? I usually try and save some yeast, but at this temp and length it might not be a good idea? I'm thinking like 10 days or more to go sub 1010.

 

[ramthebuffs]

I forgot to add, I used the swampcooler method where I put the carboy in a tub with water and covered it with a shirt to wick up the water in front of a fan. The room temp is a flat 75 most of the time and the carboy temp was 67-68. So I guess it dropped the temp equiv to like 10 deg cos you need about 64-65 deg room to hit 67-68 carboy temp from my experience.

Thanks again for the ideas.

 

[WorryWort]

My roundabout point is this isn't really an either or choice. You can do both. It's your beer.

That's true, I couldn't agree more about that. However, when you have to make comprises that can impact your beer I think it's better to tackle the problem head on. In this case, the problem is very managable so why comprise?

In some of these comments it isn't coming across that there is a HUGE difference between starting a beer around 75/80, and starting it lower, say 68, and bringing it up over a few days.

In fact, I don't think you want to start too many beers in the 80's or even the high 70's. But you definitely want to get a saison up there as the fermentation progress. Also, don't throw generic statements around like 'the yeast stops at XX temp' unless you specify the yeast. Even with the same yeast other factors are at play - so that may not be true for everyone.

If you start in the 70's then fusel alcohols can be a big problem. In my opinion, nothing makes a beer more undrinkable than fusels. That's certainly what happened to arturo7's beers that were fermented in the 90's.

Spend $20 on a cooler, start in the high 60's to low 70's, and your saison will be outstanding!

 

[gxm]

However, when you have to make comprises that can impact your beer I think it's better to tackle the problem head on. In this case, the problem is very managable so why comprise
...
In fact, I don't think you want to start too many beers in the 80's or even the high 70's. But you definitely want to get a saison up there as the fermentation progress.

Personally, I haven't brewed any Saisons starting above 68F. However, reading these two posts, I'm going to pitch my next 3724 Saison at 80F.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/need-saison-opinions-121773/#post1357541
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/need-saison-opinions-121773/#post1359989

So....maybe starting at 80F isn't a compromise for the right yeast.
And if it *is* a compromise, we'll have learned what not to do and maybe why not to do it. And for some people, such as myself, that is much more interesting than saying "I only do it this way because some guy on HBT told me too."

 

[WorryWort]

So....maybe starting at 80F isn't a compromise for the right yeast.
And if it *is* a compromise, we'll have learned what not to do and maybe why not to do it. And for some people, such as myself, that is much more interesting than saying "I only do it this way because some guy on HBT told me too."

Like I said, I couldn't agree more with your philsophy! However, this forum exists so people can ask others for their opinions and advice, doesn't it? Otherwise there would just be one sticky that says "Do whatever you want!"

I just gave my 2 cents - that it is better to spend 30 minutes and $20 to get some basic temp control than it is to wonder aloud "how can I brew around this?" Otherwise, he can only brew saisons in the summer for the rest of his life.

The comprimise is in the fact that he could very easily brew whatever ale he wants to, as opposed to having to work within his ambient temperature. I brew because I want what I want when I want it! If he prefers to brew what his temperatures dictate, then I misconstrued the issue.

I'm far from a saison expert. So maybe I'm wrong, but let's agree that there will be a difference - pitching at 80 aint' the same as ramping to 80 from 68. Try both. I'll even pitch my next one warm to compare.

As for developing desired peppery character of a saison, I heard through a discussion with Chris White on the Jamil show that underpitching can acutally help, as the yeast work a little harder to grow in the early stages, kicking off more esters. It's not relevant to this thread, but you may consider tyring that in your quest for more "peppery" flavours as well. Don't make both changes at the same time though, or else you won't know which it was that made the difference.

 

[gxm]

Like I said, I couldn't agree more with your philsophy! However, this forum exists so people can ask others for their opinions and advice, doesn't it? Otherwise there would just be one sticky that says "Do whatever you want!"

True enough. I don't think we have a disagreement.
I think there is a philosophical difference between trying to control the brewing process, and letting it do it's own thing. I try to encourage people to do the simple thing first, and then refine it if they want.

As for developing desired peppery character of a saison, I heard through a discussion with Chris White on the Jamil show that underpitching can acutally help, as the yeast work a little harder to grow in the early stages, kicking off more esters. It's not relevant to this thread, but you may consider tyring that in your quest for more "peppery" flavours as well. Don't make both changes at the same time though, or else you won't know which it was that made the difference.

Thanks for the info. I don't listen to the Jamil show much due low signal to noise ratio of banter & commericals to actual content.
I've had issues with stalling Saison ferments, which makes me a little hesitant to underpitch. But if pitching warm doesn't give me the saison I want, that will be my next avenue.

 

[WorryWort]

No worries.

Yeh, Jamil Show's good if you download the podcasts so you can skip commercials and banter when needed. I get what you're saying though. Initially I thought they were complete dweebs, but they are pretty self aware (i.e. they know the banter pisses people off, but they do it anyway) so it's ok with me now! I refer back to the original show when I'm brewing a new style for the first time.

The new shows, "Brew Strong" with John Palmer, and "Can You Brew It" are really good. There's a bunch of stuff you'll know already, but the interviews with pro brewers are pretty inspiring and educational for me.

I think about beer like 28 hrs a day, so I'll listen to anybody that cares to talk about it!