Recirculation?

[Woodbrews]

Can anyone help me out with understanding the pros/cons of recirculation during the BIAB process?

- What are the pros/cons?
- Do folks recirculate during warm up to strike temperature? Why?
- Do folks recirculate during the entire mash?
- Does it help maintain consistent mash temperatures throughout the mash (top to bottom) and during the mash?
- Is it more prevalent in electric or gas setups?
- And one more question - does recirculation help after the boil with cooling the wort, assuming you use an immersion chiller?

I'm planning a eBIAB build and am trying to decide whether to include recirculation.

Thanks!

 

[Brewcycle69]

I really like recirculation with BIAB.

In my experience the biggest pro is the very consistent mash temperature. It usually takes a couple of minutes of recirculation to stabilize the temp but its very consistent top to bottom and all the way around.

I've thought about recirculating while coming up to mash temp, wouldn't hurt, and it would keep me from having to stir the pot to see what the real temperature is.

I do recirculate during the entire mash, I didn't see any change in temp loss whether I was or wasn't recirculating.

Not sure what's most prevalent but I use gas.

I use a plate chiller but I would think recirculating would help an immersion chiller whether you're cooling all the way to pitch temperatures or just cooling enough to do a hop stand. I've also had good results with recirculation during a post boil hop stand; I get a good hop flavor that will last over a month in a keg (that's about how long the keg lasts so can't really say past that.)

Best on your system.

 

[RM-MN]

One of the advantages of BIAB is the ability to work with grains that are milled very fine since you have the bag to form the filter. If you have the grains milled quite fine, conversion happens quite quickly and you don't need to mash as long as those who use conventional tuns and you mash with a much larger quantity of water which means that you have such a large themal mass that it doesn't cool off very quickly. It won't help much to recirculate to maintain your temperature when it takes a couple minutes for the temperature to stabilize since most of your conversion is done within that couple minutes.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Using recirculation for BIAB is a slippery slope IMHO. The complications can compound themselves and can be rather tricky and can lead to a host of problems not present with a conventional BIAB.

Just my opinion, I feel automation / recirculating is not worth the effort. Some enjoy the process of building a fancy system, but I am not convinced that the more complicated process results in a better end result. I prefer to keep it simple and just insulate the kettle during the mash. Sure you will lose a few degrees, but just plan that into your mash schedule and anticipate the slight drop.

You could build a basic E BIAB rig and get started, then expand as you see fit. With a little practice, it's not hard to heat strike water to temp, dough in and cover the kettle with a few blankets...

How large is your intended batch size, the larger the batch, the more thermal mass and the less temperature loss.

 

[Woodbrews]

Thanks for the great responses. Initially, I probably will build it without recirculation, but with the option to add it later. In that regard, the biggest planning decision is whether to include pump controls in the controller. My inclination is to control the pump separately and just build the controller to handle the element.

I've seen some great ideas for insulation -- the coozie made out of an old yoga mat was brilliant.

I'm building the system with a 44-quart Bayou Classic kettle and will be doing mostly 5-gallon batches. I suspect the best thing to do is brew a few batches and see how it goes before adding complexity to the system.

 

[wilserbrewer]

. I suspect the best thing to do is brew a few batches and see how it goes before adding complexity to the system.

Yes agreed!

I suspect with that kettle for 5 gallon batches and a 3000w element, one could simply run a 3000w element without a controller, manually hit strike temp, mash and insulate the kettle, remove bag and power the element and boil...too simple I guess

Not very sexy, but would work fine...just my opinion YMMV...cheers!

 

[Woodbrews]

I suspect with that kettle for 5 gallon batches and a 3000w element, one could simply run a 3000w element without a controller, manually hit strike temp, mash and insulate the kettle, remove bag and power the element and boil...too simple I guess

Not very sexy, but would work fine...just my opinion YMMV...cheers!

Where's the fun in that? LOL. My dad is an EE and is helping me build the controller, so we'll probably go with a PID and a 4500 watt element. He's also helping me with upgrading the electrical system so I don't electrocute myself. Should be a fun father/son project.

 

[BroStefan]

Your last question was about recirculating while cooling. With an immersion chiller it makes a big difference. This is what I do. Check out the description of a typical setup at mrmalty.com

 

[Seven]

I'm no expert on recirculation but I do plan to convert my propane fired BIAB setup to electric soon and I will also be adding a pump. I like the idea of getting a consistent temperature throughout the entire mash using recirculation. Others report significantly reduced cooling times using recirculation with an immersion chiller. I like this because it will allow me to get the wort to pitching temps quicker and won't waste as much water.

 

[Zubius]

Your last question was about recirculating while cooling. With an immersion chiller it makes a big difference.

Agreed.. I recirculate while chilling with an immersion chiller, takes 12 minutes to go from 212 to 73F.

 

[shuckit]

I recirculate during mash and while cooling. My system sets up well for that. With electric, the recirc during mash smooths my temp out in the sense that there are gradients within the kettle and the element can sometimes over shoot the mash temp.

 

[ten80]

^ Exactly! I recirculated during my first EBIAB mash this weekend and the only issue was that I initially had insufficient flow to the pump due to dough balls, but that was solved by vigorous stirring to break up the balls. Smooth sailing after that and I kept my mash within 1 degree of the desired temp. I credit the re-circulation for the 87% efficiency of my mash. I think the previous non-recirculated BIAB I did for the same brew was in the high 70's.

If your recirc gets stuck and you can't get the wort flowing to the pump, then you can always just shut off the pump and let it be a non-recirculated and non-heated mash. Works fine if your kettle is insulated. I use reflectix insulation and my pot loses only 1-2 degrees over 60 min when not heated.

edit: my kettle has a basket, so the grain bag is held a good 2" above my dip tube. Keeping the grain bag off of the dip tube is essential to maintaining flow from a large surface area (i.e. bottom of perforated basket).

 

[jCOSbrew]

The difficulty I had with re-circulation was pump flow getting blocked by the bag and grains. Adding a dip tube to draw water under the heating element solved this. I also use the pump to recirculate strike water (for consistent temp), with a plate chiller, and for cleaning. You don't need a pump to get started but it is convenient.

 

[craigmw]

I recirculate with a March 815 for several reasons mentioned, primarily for heat distribution and control. However, having a pump plumbed in assists in other ways. I use a whirlpool tube I built to help reduce sludge going through my CFC and into the kettle. I run this during the last 10-15 minutes of the boil and then another 10 minutes after flame out. Of course, the pump also helps move the wort through the CFC and into the fermentor. I've even used the pump to quickly cool the wort once when I overshot the mash temp in an effort to prevent diastatic enzyme denaturation and that beer fermented just fine. I've also done BIAB without recirculation, and things turned out fine, though without whirlpooling via the pump, there was definitely a looser trub cone and more junk ended up in the fermentor.

 

[Woodbrews]

I use a whirlpool tube I built to help reduce sludge going through my CFC and into the kettle.

For those of you who use a pump to whirlpool and to recirculate, how have you arranged your kettle fittings? I'm trying to plan out what fittings to buy for my kettle, and I'm wondering about the best pickup for the bottom of the kettle, whether to install a fitting into the lid for recirculation, or whether to install a fitting in the kettle wall above the wort line for both recirculation and whirlpooling? Or a mash recirculation return tube like this from Brewhardware?

Thanks!

 

[craigmw]

For those of you who use a pump to whirlpool and to recirculate, how have you arranged your kettle fittings? I'm trying to plan out what fittings to buy for my kettle, and I'm wondering about the best pickup for the bottom of the kettle, whether to install a fitting into the lid for recirculation, or whether to install a fitting in the kettle wall above the wort line for both recirculation and whirlpooling? Or a mash recirculation return tube like this from Brewhardware?

Thanks!

I built a whirlpool tube out of 1/2" copper tubing, copper elbows and a Camlock male quick disconnect. As all of my brew hoses use Camlock female connectors, it's a simple matter to connect one from the pump outlet to the whirlpool tube. This hangs off the side of the kettle with the output firing tangentially toward the side of the pot. It does a great job of getting a strong whirlpool action, and I didn't have to drill another hole into the kettle for a whirlpool port. Such a port would have to be plugged in some way to prevent wort loss when the kettle was not used for whirlpooling, likely involving another ball valve. With the whirlpool tube added when needed, this is not an issue.

 

[Woodbrews]

I built a whirlpool tube out of 1/2" copper tubing, copper elbows and a Camlock male quick disconnect. As all of my brew hoses use Camlock female connectors, it's a simple matter to connect one from the pump outlet to the whirlpool tube. This hangs off the side of the kettle with the output firing tangentially toward the side of the pot. It does a great job of getting a strong whirlpool action, and I didn't have to drill another hole into the kettle for a whirlpool port. Such a port would have to be plugged in some way to prevent wort loss when the kettle was not used for whirlpooling, likely involving another ball valve. With the whirlpool tube added when needed, this is not an issue.

I like this approach. Any chance you would have some pictures of the setup, esp. the whirlpool tube? Thanks!

 

[craigmw]

Here is a pic of the whirlpool tube I built out of 1/2 inch copper. Not my best soldering job, but it was done during mashing when it was rather dark outside. The first image shows the build of the tube itself using copper tubing, elbows, a 1/2" NPT female to soldered fitting, and a Camlock male disconnect.

The next figure shows the brew hose with female Camlock connected to the whirlpool tube, and the placement of this into the kettle. This brew hose is connected to the output of the March pump (which also has male Camlock disconnects on input and output). Note the need for the clamp to hold the whirlpool tube to the side of the kettle. This is not particularly elegant, but works just fine. At some point, I will probably redo this so that it fits closer to the lip of the kettle and will not require the clamp, thus allowing me to place the kettle lid on while whirlpooling after flameout.

The last figure shows how the output from the whirlpool tube is oriented tangential to the radius of the kettle. This forces the flow along the wall of the kettle and strong whirlpool action when I let the March 815 (center inlet) flow at "full throttle." Overall, this was a pretty simple solution to enhancing whirl pooling, and definitely helps to control the excess sludge that results from BIAB mashing. I still get a little more trub than when I do 3-vessel RIMS, but this results in a much smaller amount of trub going into the fermenter and clearer beer in a shorter conditioning period.