Recirculating with Therminator: Subsequent off flavor problem

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dermotstratton

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I just got through reading about 15 different threads and none seemed to completely address something I am struggling with. I'm hoping someone can help me out.

I have a Blichmann Therminator. For the first 20 batches I made using it, I did not recirculate wort through the chiller and back into the boil kettle. As I have been experimenting with hop forward beers, I decided I would try this technique so that I could add hops during the whirlpool and lock in some more hop aroma/flavor. It seemed to do the trick and I was happy with the results. I figured another added bonus of this technique was that you could sanitize the Therminator via this method, because I would recirculate the wort for 15 minutes before flameout.

The problem I have encountered, though, is ever since I tried this technique I know have an off flavor in my next two beers (Maibock and American Wheat). There is an earthy/herby kind of smell and flavor to these beers that is not supposed to be there. I just smelled the wort in and wort out openings on my Therminator and the smell is almost identical. This leads me to believe that the off flavor is happening when the wort passes through my therminator. (As a note, I did not recirculate through the Therminator for these last two batches).

Has anyone else had this problem?

I was also wondering what would be the best method to thoroughly clean the Therminator?

I have tried the following:

Flush therminator with water right after use (switching directions per Blichmann recommendations). Then soak in PBW for an hour, rinse with water and store port side down over night.

After this, I just tried putting in a pot of boiling water. More junk came out after trying this method. (not much, but the water turned color a little and some particulates came out)

Next I was thinking of putting in an oven and burning off the remaining degree. I was not sure what temperature the copper braze is good to, though. Any one have any ideas? Would putting this in oven in self cleaning mode eliminate all the internal debris?

Last resort would be to use some lye. I would prefer not to try this method because: 1) I've heard some bad stuff about lye burns. 2) Not sure how to properly dispose of it.

Am I missing any other methods?
 
I would try recirculating hot pbw backwards first, moving cleaners work better than just a soak. Plate chillers are harder to clean than most things, and need to be basically spotless or you will have problems. I would also recirculate some starsan, it will get any Beerstone which may have acumulated, it is more than just a sanitizer.
 
They say not to use lye because instructions need to be written for the lowest common denominator. I will try recirculating hot one followed by starsan, but might move to lye as last resort. Of you soak in lye for a long time it will destroy inside, but a quick soak will not.


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"Well, actually"...the caustic thing more likely was written because caustics will attack the copper brazing material. They didn't have to make that part up, it's what causes the blue-green effluent.

While it might be very effective in chewing up organic deposits, it's going to take some copper with it in the offing. That said, if the choice is organic deposits contaminating perhaps multiple batches of beer (at a cumulative cost that may well dwarf the cost of the plate chiller) caustics definitely have their place. You just have to appreciate the down-side wrt plate chiller longevity...

Cheers!
 
Yup. I'm a metallurgist, so I do understand the chemical interaction. It will not bore a whole through copper plate or welds if iit is only in contact for a short time.

Agreed it needs to be a last resort, but not first time someone used caustic in a copper part.

I'm just hoping it takes care if this off flavor.


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Dermo. I just put a post in under the topic of black grease in a Blichmann fermenter, mentioning the same thing. I have had the same occurance a few times in lager and pils. I use a Therminator and my boil is usually between 18 and 22 G. I don't recirculate wort. The "earthy" taste became evident after lagering and aging. It wasn't evident before the aging phase. I had a few cases of Heiniken cans that had the same "earthy" taste. I think the taste comes from hops. The beers I produced that had the "earthy" taste had hops in them that had a wide span between alpha/beta percentages and were pellets, brewing water was high filtered, not RO as I usually use and I didn't dump trub. I had no choice, the leaf hops that I always use were out of stock, the bladder in the RO tank ruptured and I was too lazy to dump trub. I am wondering if your plate has some left over hop gunk in it, carrying the flavor over into the wort when you are recirculating? I have my Therminator for eight years. I back flush a strong solution of PBW mixed into 25 G of 175F water for 30 minutes and then flush 25 G of boiling water through it right down the drain at the beginning of the brewing season. After brewing, I flush and back flush boiling water through it. The same thing before brewing.
 
Thanks Vlad!

I had some of my BJCP friends taste my last 2 batches and they said I'm being hyper critical, but they can notice a very faint hint of the off flavor I'm describing. I'm going to try recirculating hot PBW followed by hot water rinse before I brew next time. It is just strange that this problem only started when I made change to recirculating boiling wort. I think I am going to stick to manual whirlpool for future batches. It worked fine before.


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