Recipe for YeastBay Farmhouse Sour

[505-Brewer]

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Let me know how it is. I haven't opened mine yet.

 

[MaddBaggins]

I just added the dregs of a JP Persimmon Ship to another brew I have going about 3 weeks ago. Crazy pellicle now.
I never did get any kind of pellicle from TYB Farmhouse Sour. After krausen fell that was it.

 

[Biobrewer]

I'd like to know what "marked acidity" means. Anyone got a pH value to go with these..........

Would making a starter (w no O2) at high temps help grow the lacto over sacc to help increase the activity?

By marked acidity, we mean clearly noticable. I haven't taken pH reading on anything I've made with our Farmhouse Sour Ale, but out Melange I have. My last batch of turbid mash lambic was down to pH 3.31 in 7 weeks. Haven't taken a pH reading since, but I have tasted it and it does apear to be dropping a bit more just based on taste alone.

Also, per the high mash temp recommendation, at least one of the strains of Lactobacillus we use in our Melange and Farmhouse Sour Ale blends produce alpha glucosidase similar to that which many Brettanomyces produce. This allows them to metabolize longer chain carbohydrates that are typically unfermentable via Saccharomyces cerevisiae metabolic pathways.

Regarding the starter question, yes, my experience is that higher temperatures and lower exposure to oxygen increases the growth of Lactobacillus. You just need to be careful about getting the bacteria too active in the starter and running it too long, as the lower pH can eventually have a negative impact on the Saccharomyces' ability to reproduce.

 

[505-Brewer]

Excellent. Thank you for the information.

Hope to brew up some wort this weekend and pitch from my recent order. Im thinking mash at 158F and split between sour saison and melange. pH ~3.3 in 7 weeks sounds great to me! I'll post up how it goes.

I have brett cultures should a starter get the wort too acidic.

But due to time constraints I'll probably pitch one vial per 5.5-6 gals and see how it goes. I'm also assuming re-pitching should increase the relative lacto content?

Excited to have some new yeast options. Thanks for all your efforts.

Cheers.

 

[Biobrewer]

Excellent. Thank you for the information.

Hope to brew up some wort this weekend and pitch from my recent order. Im thinking mash at 158F and split between sour saison and melange. pH ~3.3 in 7 weeks sounds great to me! I'll post up how it goes.

I have brett cultures should a starter get the wort too acidic.

But due to time constraints I'll probably pitch one vial per 5.5-6 gals and see how it goes. I'm also assuming re-pitching should increase the relative lacto content?

Excited to have some new yeast options. Thanks for all your efforts.

Cheers.

As long as your sanitation practices are good, probably not a huge deal. It likely will take longer to start though. Really excited to be getting more feedback on these sour blends.

Just finished making a beer to test Brettanomyces anomalus and Brettanomyces naardenensis strains I received the other week from a big cell repository. Hopefully they'll be in the product lineup soon!

 

[Matteo57]

I finally got around to tasting my Farmhouse Sour blend after it's sat for 2 months in my garage at around 68-72 after fermentation finished (fermented at 68, then ramped to 75 by the end and kept there for 2 weeks).
It has no sourness at all. It's a good tasting beer, but it's actually kind of sweet. I couldn't find my hydrometer at the time (I think one of my little ones grabbed it....) so I couldn't take a reading but it's crystal clear. Not sure what I want to do with this one. Definitly wish there was more sourness in it. IBUs were kept around 5.

 

[Biobrewer]

I finally got around to tasting my Farmhouse Sour blend after it's sat for 2 months in my garage at around 68-72 after fermentation finished (fermented at 68, then ramped to 75 by the end and kept there for 2 weeks).

It has no sourness at all. It's a good tasting beer, but it's actually kind of sweet. I couldn't find my hydrometer at the time (I think one of my little ones grabbed it....) so I couldn't take a reading but it's crystal clear. Not sure what I want to do with this one. Definitly wish there was more sourness in it. IBUs were kept around 5.

I would definitely say have patience with this one. Development of sourness depends on a number of factors related to the environment and the production of the wort. Two months is very short turnaround to be getting strong sourness in many cases depending on the wort production and fermentation parameters. My recommendation would be to keep it a little warmer, and revisit it every month or two until the beer is where you want it.

 

[505-Brewer]

I finally got around to tasting my Farmhouse Sour blend after it's sat for 2 months in my garage at around 68-72 after fermentation finished (fermented at 68, then ramped to 75 by the end and kept there for 2 weeks).
It has no sourness at all. It's a good tasting beer, but it's actually kind of sweet. I couldn't find my hydrometer at the time (I think one of my little ones grabbed it....) so I couldn't take a reading but it's crystal clear. Not sure what I want to do with this one. Definitly wish there was more sourness in it. IBUs were kept around 5.

Can u tell me what temp u mashed at and possibly grain bill? And your FG was? If it wont sour in a couple months then might as well sour up front then ferment out (at cost of saison character). Or just be prepared for the long haul. Im trying to decide what the best mash temp is for this strain. I am thinking 158 using a healthy portion of wheat and some oats. If it wont attenuate then I can always pitch brett. How is the saison character?

Nick can u tell us if this is hetero or homofermentative strain?

 

[505-Brewer]

I finally got around to tasting my Farmhouse Sour blend after it's sat for 2 months in my garage at around 68-72 after fermentation finished (fermented at 68, then ramped to 75 by the end and kept there for 2 weeks).
It has no sourness at all. It's a good tasting beer, but it's actually kind of sweet. I couldn't find my hydrometer at the time (I think one of my little ones grabbed it....) so I couldn't take a reading but it's crystal clear. Not sure what I want to do with this one. Definitly wish there was more sourness in it. IBUs were kept around 5.

Can u tell us what temp u mashed at and possibly grain bill? And your FG was? If it wont sour in a couple months then might as well sour up front then ferment out (at cost of saison character?). Or just be prepared for the long haul. Im trying to decide what the best mash temp is for this strain. I am thinking 158 using a healthy portion of wheat and some oats. If it wont attenuate then I can always pitch brett. How is the saison character?

Nick can u tell us if this is hetero or homofermentative strain?

 

[Biobrewer]

Can u tell us what temp u mashed at and possibly grain bill? And your FG was? If it wont sour in a couple months then might as well sour up front then ferment out (at cost of saison character?). Or just be prepared for the long haul. Im trying to decide what the best mash temp is for this strain. I am thinking 158 using a healthy portion of wheat and some oats. If it wont attenuate then I can always pitch brett. How is the saison character?

Nick can u tell us if this is hetero or homofermentative strain?

There is both a heterofermative and homofermative strain in Farmhouse Sour Ale.

 

[MeanDeuce]

Pretty sure its the warmth in my house, but temps on the sticky thermometer read 70ish, and I see noticeable tiny bubbles like carbonation in the carboy. Must have woken the yeast and hopefully the lacto up a bit. Previously it sat in the 66-68 range. Maybe they are finally doing some work on the peaches. Its been sitting in secondary on the peaches for a few weeks now.

 

[MaddBaggins]

I dumped in the dregs from a Jolly Pumpkin today. I'll let that ride for a while and see where it goes.

 

[Matteo57]

Can u tell me what temp u mashed at and possibly grain bill? And your FG was? If it wont sour in a couple months then might as well sour up front then ferment out (at cost of saison character). Or just be prepared for the long haul. Im trying to decide what the best mash temp is for this strain. I am thinking 158 using a healthy portion of wheat and some oats. If it wont attenuate then I can always pitch brett. How is the saison character?

Nick can u tell us if this is hetero or homofermentative strain?

This was kind of done with some stuff on hand, so here is the recipe:
58% Pils
12% Munich
11% 2-row
7% Rye
5% Wheat Malt
7% sugar

IBUs 8-10. I blended this wort that was about 5IBUs with a higher IBU wort so it should be around 8-10 if measurements are correct.
Mashed at 156F

Saison character is pretty good, but it is just a bit sweet still. Again, I wish I would have been able to check the gravity on this. I'll check it again soon and report back then!

 

[505-Brewer]

Thank you for the updates. Im delayed on getting this going but should be brewing in a couple weeks.

Seems like buffering the starter with some CaCO3 would be a good approach to grow lacto and sach in the starter - with minimal O2.

Given Im a couple weeks out I'll def make starters and mash at 158-160F using a golden type grain bill. Half melange half farmhouse sour. Given no one is getting much sourness I'll go for the faster sour method and then age.

My Wyeast oude bruin blend never got below pH 3.8. I even cranked that sucker up to 110F. Just sat there. Finished it off w 3726. Aged on mangos and dry hopped half. Its really good but just tart. Would be better if really sour.

Man wish I was brewing me a sour beer!

 

[BGBC]

@Biobrewer (or anyone else) - Any thoughts about combining the Farmhouse Sour w/ one of the Brett blends? Would you recommend pitching all together? Or giving the Farmhouse Sour some time to work on its own?

I just pulled the trigger on an order now that things are back in stock. Picked up Beersel and Amalgamation blends in addition to Brevis and Farmhouse Sour. Thanks!

 

[Biobrewer]

@Biobrewer (or anyone else) - Any thoughts about combining the Farmhouse Sour w/ one of the Brett blends? Would you recommend pitching all together? Or giving the Farmhouse Sour some time to work on its own?

I just pulled the trigger on an order now that things are back in stock. Picked up Beersel and Amalgamation blends in addition to Brevis and Farmhouse Sour. Thanks!

Totally depends on what you're going for. I'd just check out the description of each and find one that suits your tastes.

 

[Biobrewer]

Thank you for the updates. Im delayed on getting this going but should be brewing in a couple weeks.

Seems like buffering the starter with some CaCO3 would be a good approach to grow lacto and sach in the starter - with minimal O2.

Given Im a couple weeks out I'll def make starters and mash at 158-160F using a golden type grain bill. Half melange half farmhouse sour. Given no one is getting much sourness I'll go for the faster sour method and then age.

My Wyeast oude bruin blend never got below pH 3.8. I even cranked that sucker up to 110F. Just sat there. Finished it off w 3726. Aged on mangos and dry hopped half. Its really good but just tart. Would be better if really sour.

Man wish I was brewing me a sour beer!

Buffering the pH with CaCO3 is definitely an option to prevent the acidity from causing issues with the growth of the yeast. Either way, Sacch will dominate the front end of fermentation, so the development of sourness will have a lot more to do with your wort production methods and what remains for the LAB to metabolize.

 

[MaddBaggins]

I dumped in the dregs from a Jolly Pumpkin today. I'll let that ride for a while and see where it goes.

About 3 weeks in. The gravity hasn't changed, I didn't think it would change much. It's at 1.002. The flavor and sourness has certainly picked up. I don't know if thats just because of the JP dregs or the warmer temps or both. Either way it's most definitely a better beer than it was 3 weeks ago.
Pushing 6 months now.

 

[MeanDeuce]

Here's mine on peaches hiding in a moving box in an upstairs closet. Hoping the increased temps will wake up the lacto. Started this in early Jan.

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[40watt]

Still looking forward to trying one of these blends, probably Melange.
From some comments, I don't understand why the expectation of a truly nice sour beer in a short period of time.
When I pitch a blend like Bug County, I don't even check it until 9 months...knowing I will allow a minimum of over a year to build complexity, even if it shows a level of sourness I am pleased with.

If you want a quick sour, use your lacto up front and follow with sacc and/or brett, but don't expect the same complexity.

 

[pbntoast]

Because we want everything, and we want it now!

 

[40watt]

Haha. True!

 

[40watt]

That's why I keep a mason jar on the counter filled with an advanced culture that will make a complex sour in half the time!

 

[Brewrifle]

Care to share your culture blend with us? =)

 

[40watt]

Something anyone could have.
Ecy20, a few of my favorite additional bretts, JP dregs...

But because it has been used heavily, kept room temp, and occasionally fed, it is always raring to go and will sour quickly with a nice complexity.

I've also found that my chosen method of steeping oats on my way to a boil is a good alternative to adding maltodextrin. So is throwing some dried spaghetti into the fermenter. Time released starch feeding.

 

[40watt]

I'm so pleased with my 14 month old "lambic style" golden sour that I regret not getting it ready for a major contest.
That's never been my thing, but this batch has blown my mind.

Glad I have ten gallons to split into several applications.

The point being, the bugs just get better and better as you use them.

 

[40watt]

I realized my account of my culture isn't completely accurate.
The original beer from which this culture came was left open overnight to gather local mystery flora. All twelve gallons.

So I guess I can't be certain what it contains, but I still believe the workhorses of the culture are Bug County and JP dregs that came along in a different beer using this culture.

 

[MaddBaggins]

Still looking forward to trying one of these blends, probably Melange.
From some comments, I don't understand why the expectation of a truly nice sour beer in a short period of time.
When I pitch a blend like Bug County, I don't even check it until 9 months...knowing I will allow a minimum of over a year to build complexity, even if it shows a level of sourness I am pleased with.

If you want a quick sour, use your lacto up front and follow with sacc and/or brett, but don't expect the same complexity.

TYB site says 3-5 months to finish. That's where the expectation comes from.

 

[40watt]

Seems awfully optimistic.

 

[BGBC]

Seems awfully optimistic.

For the farmhouse sour? It's just sacch and Lacto. Not optimistic at all. Very realistic.

Comparing it to bug county is not a good comparison.