Recipe for YeastBay Farmhouse Sour

[MeanDeuce]

any updates on this guy?

I'm thinking about doing a split 6gal batch with same base. One 3g clean beer (maybe saison dupont dregs stepped up) and one 3gal with the YB farmhouse sour blend.

I was thinking of throwing in some dregs from other wild beers for the sour batch and eventually adding some cherries or peaches.

 

[MaddBaggins]

I haven't even looked at it since last month. I'm in no hurry with this one. I figure I will bottle it sometime in March. I'll take another sample at the end of the month and see what's up.

 

[MeanDeuce]

any updates on this guy?

I'm thinking about doing a split 6gal batch with same base. One 3g clean beer (maybe saison dupont dregs stepped up) and one 3gal with the YB farmhouse sour blend.

I was thinking of throwing in some dregs from other wild beers for the sour batch and eventually adding some cherries or peaches.

Going to brew my split batch on Friday. I have the clean starter going now from two bottles worth of Dupont dregs, a nice krausen after three days.

My vial of Farmhouse Sour says best before 2-2015. For a 3gal batch does that warrant a starter? I'm sure the sacc in there is plenty viable, more curious if I need to give the lacto some help getting going at this point.

I was also thinking about what to do at secondary. Ultimately want this to be some kind of peach and vanilla flavor to it. Would some medium toast oak soaked in white wine when racked onto the peaches be worth it?

 

[MaddBaggins]

Starter for a 3gal is a toss up IMO. I'd probably still do one, but maybe just a 24hr starter.
I've found that oak chips hit pretty intense pretty fast. I did 1 week in a quad and it tastes pretty well oaked. Those chips were soaked in a bottle of Cabernet Sauvignon for a month.

 

[MeanDeuce]

yeah I was thinking only a week or so on the oak before bottling time. Figured the peaches would be in there for maybe a month or two beforehand.

 

[MaddBaggins]

1.006@ 11 weeks
Smells of ginger and pears
Very subtle flavors and sourness. I can taste the ginger and cardamom. It tastes quite light for a 8.5%abv
Temp has been mid to hi 60's. That's the highest I can manage right now.
I'll wait a couple months to test again.

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[MeanDeuce]

Pitched mine on 3gal yesterday around 7pm, still nothing to show for it this afternoon. I probably should have made a starter, but staying patient to see when it starts going.

 

[Matteo57]

Won't the bugs go out of wack a bit if you make a starter on this? I plan on making a 5.5g batch with it of probably around a 1.070 OG saison.
Thanks!

 

[MaddBaggins]

Won't the bugs go out of wack a bit if you make a starter on this? I plan on making a 5.5g batch with it of probably around a 1.070 OG saison.
Thanks!

They might go a little out of whack, but it's either make a starter or order 3 vials for one batch. Otherwise it's a gross underpitch. I made a starter on mine.

 

[MeanDeuce]

Pitched mine on 3gal yesterday around 7pm, still nothing to show for it this afternoon. I probably should have made a starter, but staying patient to see when it starts going.

still nothing approx 48hrs in. How long can I wait before losing a batch?

Stores aren't open tomorrow but can run out after work on Tuesday and pick up something to repitch if need be.

 

[MaddBaggins]

Back in the day before I made starters, 2 days was the usual lag time on my brews.
It's probably the reason they were mediocre beers back then.

 

[pbntoast]

MeanDeuce, what ended up happening with your fermentation? Slow starter or no starter?

I'm seeing something similar. Pitched a vial of Farmhouse Sour (exp. Feb 18/15) into a 3 gallon batch on Jan 18 at 10pm and so far zero signs of fermentation (36h). Temperature at 70F, shook to aerate.

 

[pbntoast]

I should add, OG was 1.042 and about 5 IBU.

 

[MeanDeuce]

I got a slight fizz after 48-60 hrs but never got a krausen until I added a small pitch of Dupont yeast I was saving for a future batch. That kicked things off and I believe fermentation is pretty much over. Haven't taken a pH or gravity reading. But so far looks like a traditional fermentation so far. Yeast rafts with a little fizz left but pretty much no more bubbling in the airlock.

Gonna let it go a few more weeks before racking to secondary. Then I'll test and determine if I should add peaches.

I have no idea what to expect at this point, only three weeks in.

 

[pbntoast]

After 48h, I see lots of fermentation signs, looks like it was just a little slow off the line. Krausen looks different early on, especially the presence of little 'cotton balls' just below the surface.

I posed the question about lag time of this strain (farmhouse sour ale) to Nick at Yeast Bay, he mentioned they are seeing the same thing, just a slow starter.

 

[Biobrewer]

After 48h, I see lots of fermentation signs, looks like it was just a little slow off the line. Krausen looks different early on, especially the presence of little 'cotton balls' just below the surface.



I posed the question about lag time of this strain (farmhouse sour ale) to Nick at Yeast Bay, he mentioned they are seeing the same thing, just a slow starter.

We definitely have seen this blend take a little longer to get rolling just pitching the vial. If you make a starter though, we've seen much shorter lag times of a day or less.

 

[MeanDeuce]

Well there must be some active lacto in there. I've got an ever so tiny pellicle forming out of maybe three medium sized bubbles.

Had checked the gravity earlier this week and it was below 1.009

 

[Matteo57]

What temps are you fermenting this strain at?

 

[MeanDeuce]

Been sitting around 68*. Started it off around 63 for a couple days and let it free rise to ambient in the house

 

[pbntoast]

I started at 70F, and left it there for about 5 days. Once fermentation visibly started slowing I started raising the temperature slowly, ending at 75F. Now it is back at 70F, and I'll probably lower it to the low 60s in the next week. At 10 days, my beer measured 1.005.

YeastBay recommends 70F until fermentation begins, then you can do what you want with it. That would depend on what you want the two saison strains to produce. I've only used the French strain, and haven't gone higher than mid-high 70s. People say the Belgian strain likes it very warm, mid 80s. I don't know about the Belgian, but the French will still ferment in the mid-60s, just not as fast with a different flavor profile.

I plan to leave this in my basement for a few months, unfortunately ambient temp is around 58-60f right now. Only have one fermwrap and temperature controller.

 

[Biobrewer]

Any updates on these Farmhouse Sour Ale fermented beers? Trying to gather some more information on our sour blends. Cheers!

 

[pbntoast]

My brew day was split into two batches. I won't get into the details, but in summary I ended up with 2.75gal of 1.042 wort at 6IBU (pitched farmhouse sour) and 2.75gal of 1.043 wort at 18IBU (pitched saison/brett blend + dregs from Wicked Weed Serenity). My grain bill was the Rare Barrel golden sour recipe (70% pils, 18% wheat, 6% oats, 6% aromatic). Mash temp of 156-157F, shooting for 158F.

I tasted these at the end of primary fermentation, or what I viewed as the end of the saccharomyces fermentation at 10 days. Each krausen looked quite different but seemed to take the same amount of time. Details and tasting notes below.

10 days - Farmhouse sour: 1.007
-Appearance: Pale, turbid, lots of CO2 in suspension. Aroma: slightly tart, bready(like bread yeast), orange. Taste: slightly tart, a bit flat or one-dimensional.

- Saison/Brett blend: 1.008
- Appearance: Golden, slightly cloudy. Aroma: orange, bread, earthy. Taste: orange, tart, and slightly bitter.

- Temperature reduced to 65F over the period of ~1 week

February 19
- Farmhouse Sour: Appearance same. moderate CO2 in solution. Aroma: Strong bready, orange/citrus. Taste: tart, bright. Mouthfeel is thin. SG: 1.002/3. Still a little one dimensional.

- Saison/Brett: Appearance: Slight haze, whisper thin pellicle on surface, white, no bubbles. Quite a lot of CO2 in solution. Aroma: earthy, hay, bread, slight rubbery. Taste: lemon, quite tart, some mouthfeel remaining. SG: 1.007

It may be the recipe design, but at the end of the saccharomyces fermentation, I didn't get a lot of saison character in either beer. In my experience, by 10 days into fermentation, you can really start to tell the character of the beer. Unfortunately it just wasn't there at that time. My goal was to make a tart saison, time will tell if this comes out in the end.

I was a little surprised to see that the lacto had blown through all the food so fast, but hadn't produced a lot of tartness. Depending on what I find when I taste this again, I'm tempted to add some unfermented wort, and possibly another healthy dose of lactobacillus. My mash temp could have been a little higher, but 2F wouldn't have made a huge difference, I don't feel. Next time maybe I could add some more unfermentables in the recipe.

The saison brett blend was surprisingly nice in such a short amount of time, I felt. I was also surprised to see that there was so much gravity remaining (in comparison to the other). I hadn't expected so much sourness from this beer (I thought that the lacto blend would have produced more acidity). I suppose I ruined the experiment by adding another variable (bottle dregs), but I'm excited to see what this turns into.

Both are in my basement (probably 56-58F), will probably get up to 60-62F in a few months. There is currently a very thin, broken pellicle on the brett blend (didn't really reform after sampling, plus I had to move these), nothing on the lacto blend.

I'd be happy to hear suggestions about what to do with the lacto beer that has very few fermentables remaining.

 

[MeanDeuce]

I racked mine onto peaches after a month and a half. It was not tart at all when I tried it. Tasted like a thin saison. I've been keeping it at 68* which is ambient in the house. I was hoping the peaches would give the lacto something else to chew on.

I was planning to let this sit on peaches for another month or so but may have to bottle soon since our place is going on the market.

Next time I will create a starter, mash higher and try 5 IBU. This version is probably around 10. I'm sure it will be great once in the bottle and carbed up.

 

[MaddBaggins]

Any updates on these Farmhouse Sour Ale fermented beers? Trying to gather some more information on our sour blends. Cheers!

I haven't touched mine in a while. It's 5 months in now. I'll get a reading/taste sometime this weekend.

 

[505-Brewer]

What temperature are you planning on using? They recently posted this on their Facebook about their Melange Blend and Farmhouse Sour that might help you on the fermentation end:

"We've been been conducting some experiments with our Mélange Sour Blend and Farmhouse Sour Ale in which we fermented a pale wort of ~5 IBU at 70 F for 3 days, followed by 78 F for 2 weeks. While the beers were still young and the Mélange needs time for the Brettanomyces to work, there was marked acidity in each.

For a fast turn around sour with either blend, you should get good results at 70 F for 3-4 days to allow the yeast to complete a bulk of the fermentation, followed by 76-78 F for 2-4 weeks to ramp up the lactic acid bacteria. If you want the beer to acidify more slowly, we recommend keeping the temperature at 68-70 F. Slower acidification is particularly recommended for the Mélange blend in order to ensure the pH doesn't drop too fast and inhibit the Brettanomyces yeast that will continue to develop the flavor profile of the beer over a long period of time. If you mature the beer on the cooler end, the temperature can always be raised later (and perhaps some extra fermentables added) to increase acidity after the yeast driven flavors fully develop.

Cheers!"

I'd like to know what "marked acidity" means. Anyone got a pH value to go with these..........

Would making a starter (w no O2) at high temps help grow the lacto over sacc to help increase the activity?

 

[Matteo57]

I'll try mine hopefully Friday and get a pH reading then! Mine is about 1.5 months old

 

[MaddBaggins]

I just took a gravity reading and taste sample. 1.002
Fruity nose and taste but only the most mild hint of tartness. Pretty much just a saison. I wouldn't call it sour at all. I don't have anything to test ph.
It was probably the wrong time of year for me to try it. This was at about 70 the whole 5 months. Of course at hotter times of year I won't mail order yeast.

I'll probably just keg this one in my Brett keg in another month or so. It's tasty but I don't think I want to spend time bottling it.

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[505-Brewer]

Sounds like a bust......

Wonder if its the ratio of lacto to sacc?. If I recall the directions r the same for melange blend (higher mash temp equals more sour) which is odd because i thought lacto preferred simple sugars. I hope to brew up some saisons this weekend. I'll track pH and taste. Mash high, making half lambic with melange perhaps. Seems like these saison blends r tearing through the gravity points even when mashed high.

 

[MaddBaggins]

Sounds like a bust......

Maybe I should drink this JP I've been holding and add the dregs.
Hmm

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[505-Brewer]

I certainly think you should!