Recipe Critique Session Pale

[Matteo57]

OG 1.041
FG 1.012
Est. ABV 3.8%
IBUs 39
Batch Size: 6g
Yeast: Pacman WLP 099

7lb Pale 2 row
2lb Vienna
1lb Munich
.5 Crystal 15L

.3oz Galaxy @ 40m (15.2% AA)
.85oz Mosaic @15m (11.5% AA)
.5oz Centennial @ 5m (9.5% AA)
1.5oz Kohatu @ 5m (6.8% AA)

Dry Hop 5 days:
1oz Kohatu
.5oz Mosaic
.5oz Centennial

I was wondering if I wanted to sub in a small amount of flaked oats for a bit more body or if the malts I have currently will be enough for enough body for this?
Also, Hops, Anyone use these in tandem with each other? Thoughts? I wanted to use mostly NZ hops and like the grapefruit, citrus and pine that centennial gives so that's why that's in there. I also have Motueka, calypso, Casade, citra, pacific jade, nelson Sauv., Amarillo and Wakatu available.

Thanks for any suggestions! Plan on brewing something like this tomorrow!

 

[terrapinj]

some flaked wheat or flaked barley add a nice bit of body to session ales

 

[NathPowe]

Make sure your mash temp is pretty high. Seems like this thing could really dry out a lot otherwise and that may cause it to come across a little watery.

 

[terrapinj]

i didn't notice the yeast strain at 1st - may way to use something that's less attenuative to keep it from drying out too much

 

[tallguybrewer]

I would go as high as 50/50 on the pale/vienna ratio. I've done similar recipes and found that the malt is a little lacking when using standard domestic 2 row.

 

[Xpertskir]

You are going to need to work harder to add body and keep the FG from being too low. As your recipe currently stands there is 0 chance of stopping at 1.012 no matter what the program you are using says or how high you mash. The beer recipe calculators get "confused" with these types of beer.

Ive played with low gravity IPAs a lot and if you are looking for 1012 I'd do something like this

add some flaked oats(even if you get it to finish at 1012 it will still taste thin)
add .5-1 pound of carapils
use a more flavorful base malt(ie maris, golden promise, or even vienna/munich)
mash at 156ish
use wlp002 or a similarly low attenuative British strain, WLP099 is one of the worst yeast choices you could make for a session beer


for the hops, they look OK, but I would bump the 5 minutes to flameout or a whirlpool addition, and bump the 15 to 10 or 5.

Add bittering hops to adjust the IBUs.

Here is an example of a recent session IPA I made just to give you a feel. I mashed at 157 and hit a FG of 1.013 or 1.014 with a projected of 1.016. As you can see I added a TON of unfermentable sugars to the grain bill. The other small beers I have made with oats have mimicked the body of a larger beer the best.

Type: All Grain Date: 8/7/2013
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal Brewer:
Boil Size: 7.89 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Pot and Cooler (10 Gal/37.8 L) - All Grain
End of Boil Volume 6.76 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 4.75 gal Est Mash Efficiency 85.1 %
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage Taste Rating(out of 50): 30.0
Taste Notes:
Ingredients


Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
6 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (Thomas Fawcett) (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 70.3 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 2 16.2 %
12.0 oz Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 8.1 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 4 5.4 %
0.50 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 5 9.7 IBUs
0.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 6 10.5 IBUs
0.75 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 7 10.6 IBUs
0.75 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 8 11.5 IBUs
1.00 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 9 7.8 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 10 8.4 IBUs
1.50 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Aroma Steep 60.0 min Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
1.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Aroma Steep 60.0 min Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg English Ale (White Labs #WLP002) [35.49 ml] Yeast 13 -
1.50 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 14 0.0 IBUs
1.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 15 0.0 IBUs

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.016 SG
Bitterness: 58.6 IBUs Calories: 151.6 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 5.6 SRM

 

[Jayhem]

I LOVE the grain bill! My house APA is not far off!

I would drop the IBU's to 30-34 though. My APA is OG 1.049 and at 35 IBU's it's perfect! Bitter enough to be an APA without overwhelming the malt and hop aroma.

Also, if you like fruity, dry hop with equal parts of Galaxy, Centennial and Citra (I would use 1/2oz each for 5 gallons). It gives you a tropical Mango aroma. :rockin:

 

[Matteo57]

The one and only reason I am using the 099 is because the yeast cake I am building up for a irs I am brewing up next.
So subbed in some catapils and flaked oats or barley instead of 2 row. Maybe even up the Vienna and or Munich too subbed from 2 row.
Will update the hop schedule a bit also. Thanks all!

 

[Matteo57]

What are thoughts about subbing the Crystal 15L for 40L or 60L instead?

 

[Matteo57]

Revised:

OG 1.040
FG 1.011
Est. ABV 3.8%
IBUs 35
Batch Size: 6g
Yeast: Pacman WLP 099

4lb Pale 2 row (34.5%)
3lb Vienna (29%)
2lb Munich (19%)
.5lb flaked barley (5%)
.4lb carapils (4%)
.5 Crystal 15L (5%)

.35 oz Galaxy @ 50m (15.2% AA)
.85oz Mosaic @15m (11.5% AA)
.5oz Centennial @ 0m (9.5% AA)
1.5oz Kohatu @ 0m (6.8% AA)

Dry Hop 5 days:
1oz Kohatu
.5oz Mosaic
.5oz Centennial

I don't have more Vienna or I would maybe up that a bit more. Stone's Levitation ale is 46 IBUs, I like the bitterness level of that.. but maybe 35 IBUs would be more balanced on a bit lower ABV beer.
How low FG do you think this will go? I really would like an ABV of under 4%. Preferably between 3.5%-3.8%. With that in mind do you think the 099 will attenuate this down more than the above with the changed malt bill?

 

[Jayhem]

So subbed in some catapils and flaked oats or barley instead of 2 row.

I prefer this type of catapils in my recipes:

What are thoughts about subbing the Crystal 15L for 40L or 60L instead?

I always use Crystal 60 in my pale ale. 8oz/5 gallons, gives it a nice deep blonde color, not quite copper. I think the color is more tempting than a 3 *L pale that looks like dry hopped Miller!

This is my APA using 8oz Crystal 60 for 5.0 gallons.

 

[tallguybrewer]

I use 0.5 lb of 10L and 0.5 lb of carapils in my session rye. I think its about right for my tastes. It lends more of a sweetness rather than caramel-type flavors. Its really a matter of taste preference. I like your revised recipe, I think it will be delicious. I am guessing you will hit 1.008.

 

[Matteo57]

Interestingly enough, I only hit 1.014..... Strange. Was controlling temps also! Pitched at 66, let rise to 70 over the course of 6 days and let it sit there for 3 weeks.
Tasted great uncarbed! Dry hopping now and then will carbonate!

 

[Jayhem]

Interestingly enough, I only hit 1.014..... Strange. Was controlling temps also! Pitched at 66, let rise to 70 over the course of 6 days and let it sit there for 3 weeks.
Tasted great uncarbed! Dry hopping now and then will carbonate!

Doesn't sound too far off, especially if your hydrometer is a little high. My Pale ale using US-05 or Nottingham always hits about 1.011-1.012. I also mash high (155F) for a bit more body.

 

[Matteo57]

Yes but I am just surprised since I was using the San Diego super strain which is very attenuative!

 

[pm5k00]

Yes but I am just surprised since I was using the San Diego super strain which is very attenuative!

How old was the yeast, and did you make a starter?

 

[Matteo57]

How old was the yeast, and did you make a starter?

Yeast was a month old and did about a 1.25L starter.

 

[Matteo57]

So, I really liked this recipe but there was too much wheat/barley flavor too it. Also, I also changed this a bit more to adjust to get more flavorful bitterness and not as much simple bitterness. What if I took the white wheat out completely and upped the crystal 15L to 1.5lb. Too much Crystal?
What if I did the following?

OG: 1.042
FG: 1.012
IBUs: 60


Vienna 3.0 lb 31%
Munich Light 2.5 lb 26%
2-Row 2.0 lb 21%
Caramel/Crystal 15L 1.0 lb 10%
White Wheat 0.5 lb 5%
Caramel/Crystal 40L 0.5 lb 5%

HOPS
Galaxy (AU) 0.5 oz 30 min 14.2%
Mosaic (US) 1.0 oz 15 min 14.5%
Centennial (US) 1.0 oz 5 min 10.5%
Kohatu (AU) 1.5 oz 5 min 6.5%
Citra (US) 0.75 oz 5 min 13.7%

Kohatu (AU) 1.0 oz 5 days Dry Hop
Centennial (US) 0.5 oz 5 days Dry Hop
Mosaic (US) 0.5 oz 5 days Dry Hop

Yeast
American Ale Yeast II (1272)

 

[brewmeister13]

Like some others have said, mash high. I had a very similar brew, about half the caramel though, for a session IPA. OG was 1.043 and FG was 1.014. That was with WLP001 and a mash temp of 158.

 

[Matteo57]

Yes, was figuring I would. I mashed at 156-157 last time. It was fine. I was more asking about the white wheat or lack there of and the crystal 15. Would 1.5lb of Crystal 15 be too much if I took out the white wheat?

 

[brewmeister13]

At 1.5 lbs crystal 10 and .5 lbs medium crystal, you are looking at a very sweet beer. Personally, for me it would be too much, for others, maybe not.

 

[Matteo57]

Even at 70 IBUs? Trying to add a bit more mouthfeel without the carapils because I don't have any. Maybe drop the crystal 15 down to 1lb, keep .5 of 40L crystal? Or you think still too much?

 

[brewmeister13]

It all depends on your taste. Personally, I like to let the hops be in the spotlight and use very little crystal. From a non-personal taste perspective, 20% crystal is sometimes mentioned as the upper limit of the grist for a pale ale. At 1.5 lbs and .5 lbs that's where you would be at. What I do is look back at previous recipes and compare my impression with what was in it. If you tend to like more crystal it may work well for you, if not, you might want to cut back.