Recipe advice

[WarrynPeace]

I have a couple of bigger beers going in my fermenters, In the mean time I want to do something that will be a quick grain to glass brew. I have no more room in a temp controlled environment so will be using a saison yeast. Current ambient temps range from 73-77. I have most ingredients on hand so unless something is going to totally be out of whack this is what I want to use. I am not against picking up some specialty grains or different hops if suggested. So without further ado, anything look horribly wrong here?

2.5 gallon batch biab method.

3.5# Marris Otter
.5# Rye
.33 ounce Cascade bittering
.66 ounce Cascade flavor

I plan to mash the M.O and Rye at 155 for an hour Add .33 cascade at boil and the remaining .66 cascade at the 30 minute mark. Also, I have never done a 2.5 gallon batch, should I pitch the entire packet of saison yeast or just 1/2?
Thanks for any suggestions and recommendations.

 

[Aristotelian]

I haven't tried Saison myself, but my first look at your recipe struck me that it looks light.

This thread has a recipe for a Rye Saison that you might want to check out. Converting to your size, it looks like he has more pale malt (4 lb) and rye (1.5 lb), plus some candi sugar. You could try going with those ratios but use your Cascades.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=238831

Similarly, this thread calls for about 6 lbs of total fermentables which is again more than you have.

 

[WarrynPeace]

Thanks Aristotelian, it is intentionally light as I am trying to finish it quickly. My calculations have it coming in around 4.3abv. That being said, I could certainly adjust the rye to m.o ratio. I have not worked with rye a lot and would like for it to be noticeable. Maybe I'll up the rye to 1# and set the m.o at 3#.

 

[TxBigHops]

Recipe in the second post has an ABV of 7.2%. Some might consider that a little high for a Saison. With 1/3 less fermentables, the original recipe will probably be around 4.5% ABV. We don't know either brewer's brewhouse efficiency, but maybe he wants more of a session type beer.

 

[WarrynPeace]

Exactly TX, mostly wanting something on hand until my other beers are finished. Not exactly wanting to "rush" it, but I would think this could be drinkable in 14 days..?

 

[Aristotelian]

Oops, I just realized I left out the second link. Here it is.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=439724

Sure, what you have could be fine for a light beer if that's what you want, I just wanted to post some other recipes for comparison.

On your first question, is the yeast dry or liquid? If it is dry yeast, I would be tempted to save half, but then again I am extremely frugal.

 

[WarrynPeace]

It's dry, I believe Bells Saison. I am tempted to save half as well, but on the other hand I do not know when I will be brewing another 2.5 gallon saison... so if it won't hurt anything I may pitch the entire packet. I just don't want to over pitch if there is such a thing.

 

[slym2none]

I have seen on this site someone saying that an over pitch would have to be 4x or more than recommended. Most dry packets can ferment 6 gallons of 1.050 wort, so 1 packet for 2.5 gallons would be a minor overpitch, at best.

 

[WarrynPeace]

Thank you slim. I assumed pitching an entire packet would not do harm, but you know what they say about assumptions... So on the whole you think the recipe is fine? I will be upping the rye to 1# on Aristotelian's advice.

 

[slym2none]

Might as well go to a full 4 pounds of MO, too, right?

BTW, I have bookmarked this page so I can make this at some point. I might go Amarillo instead of Cascade, but still... I like rye beers.

Matter of fact, I might switch out 2 pounds of Maris Otter for 2 pounds of Red X, keep a full pound of rye, and have a red rye pale ale, hopped with Amarillo. Use US-05 instead of the saison yeast...

*lightbulb over head*

 

[WarrynPeace]

Haha, if you brew that please post the recipe. I don't have a lot of experience brewing rye, but I love a good Rye beer. Sierra Nevada's ruthless rye is one of my favorites, I have also had a fantastic peppercorn rye, but I forget the brewery, it was a pick your own six pack deal. As for going with 4# m.o and 1#rye, in all honesty I have a very small set up. My colander will barely hold 5# of grains while I sparge. To go into more detail would involve a lot of explanation into my brew process, needless to say I am just looking to knock out a simple, drinkable beer asap. I figured 4# would fit easier and the lower abv would be done faster.

 

[WarrynPeace]

So I brewed this today with some changes.

3# m.o
1# rye
.5 cascade pellet for 60
1oz whole leaf cascade for 30
.5 cascade for 5

I lost a little more in my boil than I had intended, so it came out at 2.1 gallons and OG of 1.051 should finish around 1.013 so right at 5% abv.

 

[JosephN]

In my experience the Belle Saison yeast might start out fine, but it will stall and then pick back up. So make sure you check your gravity readings over 3 days before bottling and really I bet it will finish out at closer to 1.005 in the temps that you described. I also don't know if you keg or bottle but I would strongly suggest letting a saison set in a bottle for at least 14 days, which is longer than you are wanting to wait from what it sounds like.

 

[WarrynPeace]

Thanks for the feedback Joseph, I'll be sure to take several hydrometer readings before thinking it finished. I will be bottling it, and would love for it to be done quickly, but willing to wait until it is done. I appreciate the heads up.

 

[JosephN]

If you find its not getting down to the 1.005(ish) range then you can adjutant the fermenter ever so slightly, that can help get the yeast kicking again and finish a little quicker. Let us know how it turns out. I just finished a French saison with Wyeast and it's nice and smooth. I hope you enjoy yours

 

[WarrynPeace]

Thought I would post a follow up here. This having been my first saison I am not sure if the rye was too much or if I just do not like saison yeast characteristics. It certainly had that rye spice flavor that I like but it was very very dry. The spice from the saison yeast along with the rye and the dryness just didn't work for me. It was drinkable but were I to do it again I would make one of these two changes.

1. Cut the rye in half and substitute a crystal 40-60. Or...

2. Same recipe with nottingham or US05.