Recharging bottled stout help

[olotti]

So I have a big ris that let sit on bourbon oak cubes for almost 12 months and I do this every year and use CBC-1 for recarbonation At bottling. This yr lhbs had only one pac of CBC-1 and it expired In nov and I bottled in March. I was skeptical of the viability of the CBC so I rehydrated and it proofed and foamed just fine before I added to bottling bucket. But here we are 2 months later where the bottles have sat in a closet at 70 deg and still no head, don’t know if the yeast wasn’t good at proofing the beer at 1.040 FG, it tastes like bourbon cherry syrup not good, so can I un cap and add some dextrose or sugar to each bottle to save/carbonate it. If so how much per bottle and do I run a risk of bottle bombs. Thanks for any help.

 

[olotti]

Anyone???

 

[Jag75]

I'm here and would love to help you but I've never done this type of conditioning. How many volumes of co2 were you supposed to get with the CBC?

Is the CBC a yeast or is it a sugar ?

 

[Vale71]

And how much priming sugar did you add? Also what is the estimated ABV of the beer?

 

[VikeMan]

But here we are 2 months later where the bottles have sat in a closet at 70 deg and still no head, don’t know if the yeast wasn’t good at proofing the beer at 1.040 FG, it tastes like bourbon cherry syrup not good,

Is it no "head" (foam) or no carbonation? If no carbonation at all, after two months with CBC, I'd say the issue is likely old yeast.

so can I un cap and add some dextrose or sugar to each bottle to save/carbonate it. If so how much per bottle and do I run a risk of bottle bombs.

If you have already added sugar to carbonate to, say, 2+ volumes of CO2 and you double down, yes, you risk bottle bombs. When an appropriate amount of priming sugar has already been used, the answer is never to add more sugar.

 

[VikeMan]

Is the CBC a yeast or is it a sugar ?

It's a high ABV tolerant "cask conditioning" yeast. It's pretty much suited to nothing else, because it can't eat maltotriose. But it's good for cask/bottle condition beers with risking further attenuation of the beer.

 

[Jag75]

It's a high ABV tolerant "cask conditioning" yeast. It's pretty much suited to nothing else, because it can't eat maltotriose. But it's good for cask/bottle condition beers with risking further attenuation of the beer.

Ahhh ok ty .

 

[olotti]

And how much priming sugar did you add? Also what is the estimated ABV of the beer?

I use a calculator andused enough sugar to carb to 2.2level of co2. Abc on this is 13%.

 

[olotti]

Is it no "head" (foam) or no carbonation? If no carbonation at all, after two months with CBC, I'd say the issue is likely old yeast.



If you have already added sugar to carbonate to, say, 2+ volumes of CO2 and you double down, yes, you risk bottle bombs. When an appropriate amount of priming sugar has already been used, the answer is never to add more sugar.

Its no carbonation. Tastes like the uncarbed samples id pull every now and again.

dang and I almost just used a diff yeast since I was worried old yeast in a high abv beer would be a bad idea. Live and learn I guess. So that’s a hard no on adding more sugar to carb with.

 

[Vale71]

13% ABV is at the limit Lallemand gives for bottle refermentation. If the yeast packet was stored properly it should have been usable without issue even 6 months past its expiration date. If it was stored improperly (i.e. without refrigeration) then all bets are off. This is probably the case as the yeast was already expired when you bought it, meaning it was out of your control the whole time it was stored.
To answer your other question: adding sugar won't do anything except make the beer even sweeter. What you need is active yeast to process that sugar and turn it into carbonation.

 

[olotti]

13% ABV is at the limit Lallemand gives for bottle refermentation. If the yeast packet was stored properly it should have been usable without issue even 6 months past its expiration date. If it was stored improperly (i.e. without refrigeration) then all bets are off. This is probably the case as the yeast was already expired when you bought it, meaning it was out of your control the whole time it was stored.
To answer your other question: adding sugar won't do anything except make the beer even sweeter. What you need is active yeast to process that sugar and turn it into carbonation.

so what about buying some Champaign yeast or more CBC -1 rehydrating it and literally using a syringe just pull off a little and put it into each bottle. I know the carbonation if it happens could be all over the map since idk if there is a way to calculate how much should go into each bottle. I’d prob start at .1-.2ml.Very small amount. Cuz like u said the suagr is already in there. The yeast just need to eat it. Maybe I could do a couple test bottles and see what works.

 

[VikeMan]

so what about buying some Champaign yeast or more CBC -1 rehydrating it and literally using a syringe just pull off a little and put it into each bottle. I know the carbonation if it happens could be all over the map since idk if there is a way to calculate how much should go into each bottle. I’d prob start at .1-.2ml.Very small amount. Cuz like u said the suagr is already in there. The yeast just need to eat it. Maybe I could do a couple test bottles and see what works.

This is about your only option, IMO. You carbonation levels (once finished) should all be the same, even if a different amount of yeast makes it into each bottle. You don't need a lot of yeast to carbonate.

 

[olotti]

This is about your only option, IMO. You carbonation levels (once finished) should all be the same, even if a different amount of yeast makes it into each bottle. You don't need a lot of yeast to carbonate.

I guess at this point it’s my only option cuz I tried to drink one the other day and drain poured it. It’s just to boozy and thick with no carbonation.

 

[sibelman]

olotti,

I feel your pain. In my experience, carb trouble seems more common with high-gravity dark beers. They seem slower to carb even when force carbonated in a keg. Dunno why. Fresh yeast could be your best option. But since you keg other beers, there's another obvious path: you could gently pour all the RIS into a keg and force carbonate it. This would add some oxygen, of course. And you've probably already considered and rejected this thought. I hope you find a way to save this batch.

 

[Vale71]

I feel your pain. In my experience, carb trouble seems more common with high-gravity dark beers. They seem slower to carb even when force carbonated in a keg. Dunno why.

The higher the viscosity, the slower CO2 diffuses in the beer and the longer it takes to force carbonate.

 

[sibelman]

The higher the viscosity, the slower CO2 diffuses in the beer and the longer it takes to force carbonate.

Hmmm. I wonder if viscosity could also relate to slow bottle carbing?

 

[day_trippr]

Probably. The phenomenon that @Vale71 related is definitely true for kegging, my imperial chocolate stout (fg ~ 1.025) takes almost as long to get to a mere ~1.2 volumes of CO2 as my pales and IPAs (fg 1.010-1.015) to get to ~2.4 volumes...

Cheers!

 

[Vale71]

I very much doubt it as with natural carbonation CO2 doesn't have to diffuse through the beer as it's produced by yeast that is already thoroughly mixed with the liquid.

 

[day_trippr]

Interesting, and makes some sense, but how to explain that generally bigger beers when bottled take longer to reach carbonation?

Cheers!

 

[Vale71]

The yeast is stressed out by the longer primary fermentation and the resulting higher ABV? Unless you add fresh yeast at bottling, of course...