Raw Ale / No Boil
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squaremile
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I did a 3% stout that was awesome, but not a big one. I like the idea if you are going for super chewy
Ok, read the complete thread and I am totally gonna do this in my next gruit beer.
A mix of pale malt and smoked malt with honey is going to meet the gruit herbs during the mash around 60 C.
Awesome! Lets see if it sours.
A mix of pale malt and smoked malt with honey is going to meet the gruit herbs during the mash around 60 C.
Awesome! Lets see if it sours.
I read the whole thing. This is an interesting idea. I was thinking about doing two 2.5 Gal batches, one boiled and one not, all with the same amount of hops. Added using the boiled tea method. Lets see how the two are different. 
I read the whole thing. This is an interesting idea. I was thinking about doing two 2.5 Gal batches, one boiled and one not, all with the same amount of hops. Added using the boiled tea method. Lets see how the two are different.
Sounds like a great idea! I just started a no boil Pilsener with the described methods but won't have a comparison. Please let us know how it turns out!
The beer I'm thinking of brewing is a Scottish 70 shilling ale. Something like 4lb am 2 row, 4lb MO, 1lb c80, 2 oz fuggles boiled for 30 mins in a quart of water, and put into the wart prior to splitting off 1/2 to let sit in an ice bath while I boil the other half of the wart for 60 mins. pitch WL Edinburgh yeast at temp. I'll let these go 7 days, prime with 1/3 cup corn sugar, bottle and leave to carb for 7 days, chill and compare. Maybe hold off adding the hop tea to boiled wart until it is around 150 or so when chilling. Any comments or concerns?
You definitely do not want to add the hop tea as long as it is above mashing temperature. Otherwise, great idea, let us know how it goes!
Recipe wise, what is am, mo and c80?
Recipe wise, what is am, mo and c80?
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
Scottish brewers have never really used speciality malts so ditch the C-80, they just use pale malt (ideally Golden Promise if you can get it), 5-10% invert sugar and optionally 10% either flaked barley or flaked maize. Colour to taste with caramel.
More likely to use Goldings than Fuggles (and the classic Wye varieties like Challenger or Target wouldn't be out of place), but Scottish brewers were pretty promiscuous on hops, they often used Cluster for bittering but you also see Strisselspalt and Saaz in recipes. Could probably move some of the hops later, to 5-15 minutes.
Mash high, pitch low - 58-60F, free rise up to no more than 68F. Other than Youngers in the low 70s% the Scottish brewers generally got pretty terrible attenuation, in the 60s%.
@Miraculix - that's American and Maris Otter....
More likely to use Goldings than Fuggles (and the classic Wye varieties like Challenger or Target wouldn't be out of place), but Scottish brewers were pretty promiscuous on hops, they often used Cluster for bittering but you also see Strisselspalt and Saaz in recipes. Could probably move some of the hops later, to 5-15 minutes.
Mash high, pitch low - 58-60F, free rise up to no more than 68F. Other than Youngers in the low 70s% the Scottish brewers generally got pretty terrible attenuation, in the 60s%.
@Miraculix - that's American and Maris Otter....
I got the ingredients already. I thought the c80 would add the caramel flavor that is usually from the extended boil. Not sure what hops I ended up with, basically a bittering charge only. I'll make sure to write it all up as I do the experiment. I was thinking of mashing at around 156-8 and I guess I could use my ferm fridge to get the ferm temps into the Scottish range. I usually just let them go into the dining room corner (around 60-73). Thanks for the feedback.
Beerswimmer
Well-Known Member
I have my first no boil underway. I'm making a strong sour saison. Saturday I mashed and brought my un-hopped wort up to 170F, chilled to 100F and added to my ferment bucket. I added Goodbelly, and will be adding yeast tonight. Will dryhop for a few days after reaching final gravity.
This weekend I'll be making a copy of the same recipe but bringing to a 5 minute boil instead of just 170.
This weekend I'll be making a copy of the same recipe but bringing to a 5 minute boil instead of just 170.
Thanks again for all the pages of discussion here... I did a no boil rye NEIPA and entered into a local competition. It took 3rd place out of 40 entries in the Rye IPA category with no off flavors noted by 3 different judges. The only knocks were that the bitterness (20 IBU) and the appearance were not to style... but that’s because NEIPA isn’t a recognized style.
Cheers
Cheers
Thats great, congratulations!
Too bad that it had to play in a different arena than it's own. I think this whole no boile thing might actually change the homebrew sector drastically on the long run. It is easily possible to do a 75% efficiency brew in a biab system in 60 min, including setting up and cleaning afterwards. 30 min mash, 30 min boil (the hop tea) and then chill (or no chill and throw in the yeast the next day).
I am very curious if there will be a down side. Up until now, I haven't read about one.
My no boil, warm fermented pilsener will be bottle on the weekend, I will let you know how it turns out.
I bottled my raw pilsener yesterday. Thought it was after 14 days, today I saw it was after only 10 days.... maybe that was too early. I recognized quite a bit of butterscotch aroma in the beer and now it am also a bit scared that it might overcarbonate, although FG was 1.01, which sounds reasonable for an OG of 1.05 and saflager 34 70.
The diacethyl flavour might would have vanished with extended time on the yeastcake, but on the other hand, the beer was not clear so there is still something floating around in the bottles so this might also happen in the bottle. I had some time pressure because I want to create at least two additional beers up until december in the fermenter used.
I immediatly brewed a indian red after botteling yesterday, of course, raw as well. I will let you know how it turns out
The diacethyl flavour might would have vanished with extended time on the yeastcake, but on the other hand, the beer was not clear so there is still something floating around in the bottles so this might also happen in the bottle. I had some time pressure because I want to create at least two additional beers up until december in the fermenter used.
I immediatly brewed a indian red after botteling yesterday, of course, raw as well. I will let you know how it turns out
Beerswimmer
Well-Known Member
I brewed a raw wit tonight, but I'm fermenter souring it with Goodbelly right now. Total brew day from start to finished cleaning: 2:37, not bad!
Beerswimmer
Well-Known Member
Made my 3rd no-boil in a row last night. A saison. Took less than 3 hrs even with a 90min mash. I can't wait to get these in bottles and see how they turn out!
The beer I'm thinking of brewing is a Scottish 70 shilling ale. Something like 4lb am 2 row, 4lb MO, 1lb c80, 2 oz fuggles boiled for 30 mins in a quart of water, and put into the wart prior to splitting off 1/2 to let sit in an ice bath while I boil the other half of the wart for 60 mins. pitch WL Edinburgh yeast at temp. I'll let these go 7 days, prime with 1/3 cup corn sugar, bottle and leave to carb for 7 days, chill and compare. Maybe hold off adding the hop tea to boiled wart until it is around 150 or so when chilling. Any comments or concerns?
So I brewed the above beer with 1 oz Horizon boiled for 30 mins in about 2 cups H2O split and added to the beer as it cooled. I let it sit until the next a.m. (no chill) then I racked to Fermentors and split a 2 ltr starter between the two. It is in the dining room (about 70 F). I forgot to notice if it is bubbling, but should do. I ended up mashing a little lower 152 to 60 or so minutes. Looking forward to see how these differ, if at all. I'll post when I have results :rockin:
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Ok guys, had two bottles of my raw pilsener today, one of the best Pilseners I ever had. Honestly.
I got into the Pilsener thing because I had this dry hopped 5 point London brewery pilsener, dry hopped with noble hops, and I just freaking nailed it! My Pilsener tastes like I cloned theirs, just a hint drier, if a remeber theirs correctly. What a lucky shot!
But one nasty side effect, my Pilsener won't clear well, and I bottled a bit to early (day ten.... ), so there was still a lot of yeast in suspension, but after one day in the fridge most of it is settled down and the beer does not give me foam fountains anymore because of the suspended yeast.
But this is truly a lazy ass pilsener. Warm fermented at room temperature (saflager 34 70), raw ale, no boil and hop tea on the side. Took me a bit more than one hour to brew 15liters, including cleaning up
Will make a thread about this one when I can take some decent fotos of it.
I think next time I will try fining with gelatine to get the yeast out of suspension. I really do not need it to be crystal clear, I just need to get the yeast out of suspension to prevent gushers.
I got into the Pilsener thing because I had this dry hopped 5 point London brewery pilsener, dry hopped with noble hops, and I just freaking nailed it! My Pilsener tastes like I cloned theirs, just a hint drier, if a remeber theirs correctly. What a lucky shot!
But one nasty side effect, my Pilsener won't clear well, and I bottled a bit to early (day ten....
), so there was still a lot of yeast in suspension, but after one day in the fridge most of it is settled down and the beer does not give me foam fountains anymore because of the suspended yeast.But this is truly a lazy ass pilsener. Warm fermented at room temperature (saflager 34 70), raw ale, no boil and hop tea on the side. Took me a bit more than one hour to brew 15liters, including cleaning up
Will make a thread about this one when I can take some decent fotos of it.
I think next time I will try fining with gelatine to get the yeast out of suspension. I really do not need it to be crystal clear, I just need to get the yeast out of suspension to prevent gushers.
Ok guys, had two bottles of my raw pilsener today, one of the best Pilseners I ever had. Honestly.
I got into the Pilsener thing because I had this dry hopped 5 point London brewery pilsener, dry hopped with noble hops, and I just freaking nailed it! My Pilsener tastes like I cloned theirs, just a hint drier, if a remeber theirs correctly. What a lucky shot!
But one nasty side effect, my Pilsener won't clear well, and I bottled a bit to early (day ten....
But this is truly a lazy ass pilsener. Warm fermented at room temperature (saflager 34 70), raw ale, no boil and hop tea on the side. Took me a bit more than one hour to brew 15liters, including cleaning up
Will make a thread about this one when I can take some decent fotos of it.
I think next time I will try fining with gelatine to get the yeast out of suspension. I really do not need it to be crystal clear, I just need to get the yeast out of suspension to prevent gushers.
A gusher means there was too much sugar left when it went to the bottle, it has nothing to do with suspended yeast. I mean yeast has to be present to eat the left over sugar, but it is very unlikely you would be able to remove them all through fining, but you can use something that kills them off before bottling.
A gusher means there was too much sugar left when it went to the bottle, it has nothing to do with suspended yeast. I mean yeast has to be present to eat the left over sugar, but it is very unlikely you would be able to remove them all through fining, but you can use something that kills them off before bottling.
Nope. Sorry but you are wrong. What you explained is one possibility, out of multiple reasons for gushers, but not the case in this particular case.
The beer was finished and the amount of carbonation is spot on for a Pilsener.
Yeast in suspension provides particles with rough surface on which small co2 bubbles can easily attach and grow. For co2 to get out of solution into the gas state, those little bubbles on the surface provide open doors so the process of "bubbling out" is speeded up immensely, resulting into gushers.
After cold crashing it for two days, the yeast did settle and no gushing anymore.
I get it, like Mentos and Coke :rockin:
Okay, so this weekend I bottled my boil/no boil exbeerament. I brewed 5 gals of Scottish 70, with the recipe I entered earlier. Split that after the mash, raised the no boil to 170, and boiled the other half for about 45 mins, used no chill on both and pitched 50/50 of a 2 ltr starter of WL Edinburgh yeast Sunday a.m. I made 2 cups of hop tea with one oz of some fairly strong AA hop (don't have my notes handy). This was added 50/50 to both beers and they cooled. I let this ferment at around 70 f for 8 days and bottled. My HBC meets this coming Sunday, I hope there is enough carb to do a test. We shall see
madscientist451
Well-Known Member
Can you share the recipe/process? I'd like to tr it, Thanks!
applescrap
Be the ball!
I've gotten a little behind on my yearly pumpkin beer so I plan to make a no boil. I read the entire thread and didn't quite find what I was looking for. I was hoping for someone to say that they have made all kinds of different styles of beer with no adverse effects. As everyone knows I love to drink beer but I don't actually like Brewing. I'm so glad I found this thread and appreciate all the information.
My plan is to start with 6 gallons as I usually only lose about a half gallon to absorption. My plan is to mash the Hops as opposed to making a tea. I have done no till before and didn't care for it but I'm going to no chill this. I assume that I'll get enough ibus out of the Hop sitting in the mash and no chilling. I think I'm going to throw the pumpkin in after I drain the bag. And I will add the spices then as well. And hopefully get this baby ready for Thanksgiving! Thoughts suggestions are more than welcome
My plan is to start with 6 gallons as I usually only lose about a half gallon to absorption. My plan is to mash the Hops as opposed to making a tea. I have done no till before and didn't care for it but I'm going to no chill this. I assume that I'll get enough ibus out of the Hop sitting in the mash and no chilling. I think I'm going to throw the pumpkin in after I drain the bag. And I will add the spices then as well. And hopefully get this baby ready for Thanksgiving! Thoughts suggestions are more than welcome
The problem I see is the desired ibus vs. Low mashing temps and grains filtering the hop stuff out of the wort.
I would go for the hop tea on the side. It could work with your hops in the mash, but it would be a shot in the dark as nobody really knows how much hops you really need. I would say at least double the amount usually used, but I can be way off.
The low temp does not let the alpha isomerize in high percentage and the little other stuff from the hops that gets into solution might attach to the grain and would then be removed with it.
I would try something like this in a 1 gallon batch first just to see how effective the mash hopping is and to get a rough idea of a factor for calculating the amount vs. The amount that would be necessary in a normal Wort boiling scenario.
Oh and one more thing, is the pumpkin boiled? Otherwise, you would be asking for trouble...
applescrap
Be the ball!
Thanks for the ideas. The pumpkin is from the can so I figure it will be okay adding after the mash. I normally boil it for 60 minutes but it seriously has no flavor. I lightly spice it and my biggest concern is with the raw Factor but I'm not too worried.
Yea no problem. The competition required 5-20% rye in the malt bill. So I'll post the exact recipe I used, but personally I think it would be better to replace the rye with base malt or flaked oats. I would also add 6oz of crystal40 for a better color next time.
5.5 gallons to fermentor
68% system effiiciency (BIAB)
1.062 OG
1.017 FG
5.9% ABV
15 IBU
4.5 SRM
Total Hops:
8oz Citra
4oz Galaxy
4oz Mosaic
Water Chem:
127 Ca
174 Cl
85 SO4
5.4 mash pH
Mash with 4.5 gallon for 60 mins at 154F
9lb 2row
1lb German rye malt
1lb flaked rye
1lb carapils
8oz acidulated malt
1 gallon oat milk (Kind of an odd ingredient, but helps give oat quality without using oats in the mash. I measured a sample at its 1.046 OG, so I use 1 gallon calculated as 1lb of sugar with 46 PPG) This could easily be replaced by base malt or oats.
Sparge with 2 gallons
Heat wort to 168F after mash, stir in oat milk, and then start whirlpool
2oz Citra at 168F (40 mins)
2oz Citra at 163F (30 mins)
2oz Mosaic at 158F (20 mins)
2oz Galaxy at 153F (10 mins)
During the whirlpool, I keep all previous hop debris in the spider...thus the times.
Cool to 70F, pitch 220Billion cells of Wyeast 1318
Dryhop 1 (2oz Citra, 1oz Mosaic) 48 hours after pitching yeast
Dryhop 2 (1oz Citra, 1oz Mosaic, 1oz Galaxy) 48 hours prior to kegging/bottling
Dryhop 3 (1oz Citra, 1oz Galaxy) in Keg
Forced carbed in keg to 2.6vols
Good luck! Cheers
It's a shelf stable product. So yeah.
Scott Janish had a pretty good blog post about it (@ scottjanish.com/blog/ ).
applescrap
Be the ball!
First no boil done. Ironically it took the same 2.5 hours my 45 minute boil batches take. Albeit this was much less work and "on" time for sure. I didnt keep track of time very well and wanted to just kind of take it slow, so to speak. Started at 6:42 dumping water in heating 6g of artesian water on stove. It was cold out, nice to be inside except for cleaning. About 708 was at 169. Wanted to mash a little higher.
Mash hopped 1.5oz Willamette and added grain. Stirred really really well. Stirred some more and was at 156. Figured ok, and wrapped it up in towell and left it. Later realized I forgot to set timer but figured oh well and set it for 45. Started wondering if 1.5 oz would create enough ibus so i boiled 2cups water in pyrex in the microwave and threw in 0.5 oz Willamette and let it sit. Didnt keep very good time, but ibu calc said .125g boil for 5.5g batch with 5 percent aa in 1.00 solution was close to 9 ibus at 20 minutes, 10 at 30 and 13 at an hour or something like that so figured no big deal either way. Those are enough with the mash hops for pumpkin. Mash timer went off while I was reading bed time stories to 4 yo daughter. . Went down stairs later and got to it. Squeezed bag, sanatized fermenter. Lazily sanatized squeeze bucket and colander. Figured it was all cold side now. And sanatized pumpkin can tops and can opener. Drain and squeezed my sack hard, added pumpkin to mash, added spices, and squeezed wort and stirred. Put in fermenter and temp was 136. Will see, thanks for the inspiration!
Mash hopped 1.5oz Willamette and added grain. Stirred really really well. Stirred some more and was at 156. Figured ok, and wrapped it up in towell and left it. Later realized I forgot to set timer but figured oh well and set it for 45. Started wondering if 1.5 oz would create enough ibus so i boiled 2cups water in pyrex in the microwave and threw in 0.5 oz Willamette and let it sit. Didnt keep very good time, but ibu calc said .125g boil for 5.5g batch with 5 percent aa in 1.00 solution was close to 9 ibus at 20 minutes, 10 at 30 and 13 at an hour or something like that so figured no big deal either way. Those are enough with the mash hops for pumpkin. Mash timer went off while I was reading bed time stories to 4 yo daughter. . Went down stairs later and got to it. Squeezed bag, sanatized fermenter. Lazily sanatized squeeze bucket and colander. Figured it was all cold side now. And sanatized pumpkin can tops and can opener. Drain and squeezed my sack hard, added pumpkin to mash, added spices, and squeezed wort and stirred. Put in fermenter and temp was 136. Will see, thanks for the inspiration!
applescrap
Be the ball!
Had to uninstall and reinstall app to get pics going.
Wish I would have sanatized the squeeze bucket better. Figure the bag was at least a 150 when it was put in there. A little worried about sanitation to tell the truth.
View attachment 1510293455485.jpg
Wish I would have sanatized the squeeze bucket better. Figure the bag was at least a 150 when it was put in there. A little worried about sanitation to tell the truth.
View attachment 1510293455485.jpg
Yea... I have a small 9 gallon kettle and I do BIAB. So space is at a premium. Using oat milk allows me to add fermentables with 100% efficiency, saves space during the mash (no oats in mash) and gives all the qualities to the beer that flaked oats would.
A gravity reading of the oat milk by the brand Pacific was 1.046. So for 1 gallon, I add it to brewers friend as a custom grain with 46 PPG.
Also... its great in coffee
applescrap
Be the ball!
Some more bs with this beer. I'm busy tonight so I needed to pitch the yeast this morning. Well when I checked on it this morning it was at 85. Because I was worried about Sanitation and wouldn't have time later I figured the best thing I could do was get it fermenting as soon as possible. So I pitch the yeast at 85. If it gives some Esther's I hope it doesn't matter too much. I'm guessing the pasteurization happened over time. Am I wrong in thinking that doing this technique with Brew in a bag means that the mash needs to be pulled well above 140 or the equipment used to drain the bag has to be sanitized?
Semi interested in this raw process. Few questions
Is anybody using pressure cooker for hop boil? I dont think it will raise ibu level a whole lot but it’s definitely faster. Or is the mini-quasi-decoction a better route?
Sounds like whirlfloc is needed to avoid astringency from polyphenols, etc interacting with hop oils? Or no?
Are flaked, carpils/carafoam, etc necessary if the no boil by itself helps with body and mouthfeel?
How difficult to get into typical 6% range with BIAB no boil? Finer crush, very thick mashes, big ass pot?
What sort of ABVs?
Is anybody using pressure cooker for hop boil? I dont think it will raise ibu level a whole lot but it’s definitely faster. Or is the mini-quasi-decoction a better route?
Sounds like whirlfloc is needed to avoid astringency from polyphenols, etc interacting with hop oils? Or no?
Are flaked, carpils/carafoam, etc necessary if the no boil by itself helps with body and mouthfeel?
How difficult to get into typical 6% range with BIAB no boil? Finer crush, very thick mashes, big ass pot?
What sort of ABVs?
I also thought about pressure cookers, it might be a really good idea. Would surely speed things up.
I wouldn't do the hop tea with Wort as this would create some dms when heated above 80c, just use water instead.
Biab no boil needs a pot which can take one third of the final beer volume.
One third is for the hop tea, one third is for the mash and with the remaining third, you refill the bag after extracting the Wort (you can use cold water for this step) to solve the remaining sugars. Let it sit for five minutes after a good stir and then extract again. Then you can combine everything and cool it and ferment it.
... At least this is the process that works best for me.
