Raising the ABV

[eon]

Hi all,

I'm planning on making an imperial stout, splitting the batch, aging them both on different alcohol-soaked cubes and then blending them. I have questions about that, but I'll save that for another thread.

My question is: I created a recipe today in Brewtoad and got it right where I want it. After I closed out the web page I realized that my recipe is only at 7.3% ABV and I would like this thing to stop around 11%

Can somebody fill me in on how to properly change my grain bill to get this recipe up to 11% ABV or somewhere close?

I really hope I can do this with the equipment I have. I have a five gallon mash tun and probably a brew kettle that's a little over 4 gallons.

Here's the recipe for a three gallon batch.

Batch Size: 3 gallons
Boil Size: 3.75 gallons
Boil Time: 60 minutes
Mash Temp: 155 F
OG:1.073
FG:1.017
Color: 57 SRM
IBU: 44
ABV: 7.3%


(35.54%) 2.90 lbs. Gleneagles Maris Otter
(35.54%) 2.90 lbs. Simpsons Golden Promise
(9.80%) 0.80 lbs. American Chocolate
(8.58%) 0.70 lbs. Roasted Barley
(4.66%) 6.00 oz. Carapils
(1.96%) 2.60 oz. Crystal 120L
(1.84%) 2.40 oz. Black (Patent) Malt
(2.08%) 2.70 oz. Flaked Oats

0.50 Chinook @ 60 minutes
0.50 Crystal @ 20 minutes (4.3%)
0.50 Willamette @ 20 minutes (4.5%)
0.20 Crystal @ 1 minute (4.3%)
0.20 Willamette @ 1 minute (4.5%)
1/2 cup of coarsely ground Stumptown Hairbender coffee @ flameout (steep for 15 minutes).

Yeast: WLP001

Age 50% on Rum soaked West Coast Oak Blend cubes
Age 50% on Apple Brandy soaked West Coast Oak Blend cubes

 

[pdxal]

You can try using your recipe calculator and scaling up everything about 25%, then adjusting the numbers to get similar proportions if you don't have a scaling up function.
Doing some quick calculations on a napkin...
With that small a brew kettle it will be difficult, since you'll have to mash around 1.5qts/lb and collect about 2.75 gallons of first runnings to stay within your mash tun limitations, and collect another 1.5+ gallons of second/third runnings and end up with a mash efficiency of 80%ish to get that kind of gravity.
Another option would be to boost your gravity with some pale dry malt extract or sugar after you have finished the mash and started the boil to get the gravity you want.
On another note, why combine them? Bottle them separately to compare!

 

[eon]

Thanks for the reply pdxal.

Adding DME to the boil sounds like a great idea. I wonder how much I would need?

Also, just so we're on the same page, here is what I want to do:

I want to make a 3 gallon batch and take 1.5 gallons and age it on rum soaked cubes. Then I want to take the other 1.5 gallons and age it on apple brandy soaked cubes. After aging I want to blend the two and either age the blended beer or drink it!

Can I still do this with the equipment I have? Thanks again.

 

[Natdavis777]

Thanks for the reply pdxal.

Adding DME to the boil sounds like a great idea. I wonder how much I would need?

Also, just so we're on the same page, here is what I want to do:

I want to make a 3 gallon batch and take 1.5 gallons and age it on rum soaked cubes. Then I want to take the other 1.5 gallons and age it on apple brandy soaked cubes. After aging I want to blend the two and either age the blended beer or drink it!

Can I still do this with the equipment I have? Thanks again.

The only issue I see with aging two sets of 1.5gal beer each is what vessel you age it in. You dont want to put it in something with a lot of head space or else it can lead to oxidation issues.

 

[solbes]

I second the DME addition (or even late additon LME if its fresh). Northern Brewer/Midwest has a Maris Otter LME that I've used twice for the same purpose. Its good stuff and they have a ton of turnover so I know its pretty fresh.

If you wanted to up it by malt, I'd just up the base malt and leave the specialty malts as is. Mashing that would be tough though.

Regarding the blending, I'm not getting it. Half the batch is going to be with brandy and half the batch with rum. And then you are going to blend all of it back together? Or do you mean some would stay rum, some would be brandy, and some would be blended. I see no benefit to keeping them separate unless you meant the second option.

If you are going to keep them separate, I would recommend using two 1 gallon glass carboys (empty apple cider jugs, or $5 each from brew shop) plus two 1.5L wine bottles or growlers. They sell carboy bungs of every size (including small ones that fit in wine bottles to accept an airlock). That would keep your headspace to near zero and you could age as long as you want without concerns of oxidation.

 

[eon]

Regarding the blending, I'm not getting it. Half the batch is going to be with brandy and half the batch with rum. And then you are going to blend all of it back together? Or do you mean some would stay rum, some would be brandy, and some would be blended. I see no benefit to keeping them separate unless you meant the second option.

Sorry, maybe I am not being clear.

I am basically trying to do what Cigar city does in their Double Barrel Stout. On the Ratebeer page for that beer the description says:

"50% aged in Rum barrels, 50% aged in Apple Brandy barrels"

So I figured the best way to replicate that as a homebrewer would be to split my batch and age one half on Rum soaked cubes and the other half on Apple Brandy soaked cubes - Then blend the two together. Does that make sense?

Also, I definitely think I will just go with your idea and add the LME to the boil. That will do the trick and get me the increased gravity I'm looking for. Question though, I've never done anything like this before and I'm not so good with math so can you tell me how much LME I would need to add to the boil in order to go from 7.3% ABV up to say 11% ABV? I'd really appreciate any help with that.

Not sure if it matters, but just as a reminder I will be making a 3 gallon batch though when all is said in done due to trub loss I'll probably have more like 2 gallons. I'm not sure how to calculate any of that stuff. In fact, the last beer I made (a porter) I thought I was going to have 3 gallons, but then on bottling day I ended up with 2 gallons of beer exactly, so I'm not sure. Is there anyway to figure this stuff out??

Thanks again for all your help!

 

[pdxal]

Use one of the free calculators to determine malt extract to reach the gravity you want.
Why waste your time aging them separately when you aren't using barrels? Just drop in the 2 different types of oak into the same batch and let it mix there. The only reason they are fermenting them separately is because they are using barrels and have to blend afterward. No worries about multiple fermentors that way too.

 

[FloppyKnockers]

Add vodka...

 

[pitmaster666]

brewtarget is a free program for PC and Linux that would allow you to type in whatever additions you wanted and it would tell you the final ABV and all other details. I use that program exclusively. I prefer to boil my batches longer to acheive higher ABV, but that is partially due to the fact that I want to get away from the wife for longer...

 

[solbes]

Sorry, maybe I am not being clear.I am basically trying to do what Cigar city does in their Double Barrel Stout. On the Ratebeer page for that beer the description says:

"50% aged in Rum barrels, 50% aged in Apple Brandy barrels"

So I figured the best way to replicate that as a homebrewer would be to split my batch and age one half on Rum soaked cubes and the other half on Apple Brandy soaked cubes - Then blend the two together. Does that make sense?

You get a different sort of oaking experience using Barrels vs cubes. Generally the barrel will be superior, but its both expensive and inconvenient for homebrewers to use barrels, so cubes made from real oak staves is a wonderful compromise. Since they are using barrels, they have to split up the barrels. I don't think you would get any different results splittling your batch with cubes of each type vs just blending them all in the same batch. Eliminates the headspace concern if you have a 3 gallon carboy by keeping them together. Just my two cents.

Also, I definitely think I will just go with your idea and add the LME to the boil. That will do the trick and get me the increased gravity I'm looking for. Question though, I've never done anything like this before and I'm not so good with math so can you tell me how much LME I would need to add to the boil in order to go from 7.3% ABV up to say 11% ABV? I'd really appreciate any help with that.

Try using Brewers friend free calculator. I plugged in your numbers and you are in luck. Adding 1 of their 3.15 lb LME containers of Maris Otter gets you exactly what you are looking for. Brings you from 1.074 to 1.110. And brings your ABV from 7.24 to 10.86%. The bottle conditioning will give you about 0.2% so you are dead on the money. Cheers!

http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/calculator/

 

[chickypad]

Like solbes said you would need about 3 lb LME in 3 gal (or 2.5 lb DME) to get your gravity up in the correct range. Just keep in mind that you are significantly changing the beer by doing that. You'll want to consider adjusting the IBU's as well, as an 11% beer at 44 IBU will seem significantly sweeter than the original. Personally I'd also look at the final percentages and consider bumping the specialty grains up a bit depending on what that looks like. With a small change you might be able to keep them the same but you are raising the base grain another 50% from the original. Again, I think you need to look at the recipe as a whole. IMO it's not quite as simple as just raising the ABV when you are talking about this big of a change.

 

[eon]

Thanks for all the tips guys! I'll mess around with the recipe again and post it here to follow up with all of you again. Thanks for the help!

 

[eon]

Ok, so I adjusted the recipe and I think I've got it. The last thing I am wondering about is my FG. Right now I think it might be too low. As is, it's at 1.017 with an OG of 1.119. I'm not sure if this will be an issue, but I'm worried about my beer being too thin. It's an imperial stout so I would like it to be thick or at least creamy with a nice mouthfeel. Don't want a super watery beer. Should I mash higher/lower?

Anyway, here's the new recipe. Let me know what you think.

Batch Size: 3 gallons
Boil Size: 3.75 gallons
Boil Time: 60 minutes
Mash Temp: 155 F
OG:1.119
FG:1.017
Color: 77 SRM
IBU: 56
ABV: 13.4%


(23.05%) 2.90 lbs. Gleneagles Maris Otter
(23.05%) 2.90 lbs. Simpsons Golden Promise
(25.04%) 3.15 lbs. Maris Otter LME
(9.78%) 19.75 oz. American Chocolate
(8.59%) 17.3 oz. Roasted Barley
(4.61%) 9.26 oz. Carapils
(1.99%) 4.01 oz. Crystal 120L
(1.83%) 3.71 oz. Black (Patent) Malt
(2.07%) 4.17 oz. Flaked Oats

1.00 Chinook @ 60 minutes
0.75 Crystal @ 20 minutes (4.3%)
0.75 Willamette @ 20 minutes (4.5%)
0.50 Crystal @ 1 minute (4.3%)
0.50 Willamette @ 1 minute (4.5%)
1/2 cup of coarsely ground Stumptown Hairbender coffee @ flameout (steep for 15 minutes).

Yeast: 2 Packets (12g) of Safale US-05

Age on Rum soaked and Apple Brandy soaked West Coast Oak Blend cubes.

 

[m00ps]

to up the abv that high you definitely want to add simple sugars AFTER fermentation has started. Boil some sugar/dme or whatever in water, let it cool, and add it to the fermentor around high krausen. This way, the yeast wont be shocked by such a high OG environment. They will be able to build up their forces beforehand. This is how high gravity Belgians are traditionally made

also you can add maltodextrin to give it more body / higher FG

 

[solbes]

I doubt you will have issues with low gravity. Maybe if you pitched a whole ton of yeast (which you absolutley SHOULD do), mashed very low, and then ramped the temps in the last 30% of fermentation like Belgians you would get a 1.017 FG. But I still doubt it. I bet you finish 1.023-1.030 which would have plenty of body. In fact you'd need quite a bit of bitterness to offset the sweetness (I'm thinking 56 IBU is low, I'd shoot for 75-90).

 

[eon]

Thanks for the reply solbes. I used to have my yeast as WLP001 and with that yeast Brewtoad calculated a FG of 1.028 an ABV of 12%

I switched the yeast to US-05 and Brewtoad calculated the FG of 1.017 and an ABV of 13.4%

Do you think I should mash a little lower for this? Does 155 F seem a bit high?

Thanks again!

 

[solbes]

I don't have that much experience with S-05, maybe 2-3 brews total. From what I can tell it attenuates well. I used Bells yeast (also attenuates well) for my RIS. OG 1.102, FG 1.029. I coaxed another 5-8 points of it by getting creative. This with pitching 2/3 of a yeast cake from previous batch and mashing at 150F.

I would target 149-152 for mash temps.