Racking on yeast cake. Fermentation going nuts!

[sakariss]

Hi

Style : Stout
2.5Gallon
OG 1086

I just brewed my first Stout yesterday. I used DME and steeping grains, and a bit of brown sugar. This is my ninth batch, and most of the others have been All-grain BIAB.
It had an target OG of 1082, I overshot it and the OG ended up on 1086.
Anyways.

I read that it was fine to rack the wort to the yeast cake of another batch.
I timed it with an IPA which was finished in primary. So I racked the IPA to the secondary while boiling the Stout wort.
The yeast that I used for the IPA was S-04, and I left about 1/3 of an inch of beer in the fermentor, to cover the yeast-cake.

The mistake i did happened when I cooled down the wort. The recipe didn't call for cooling the wort down to room temprature. but adding it to some cold water in the fermentor and top it with cold water to reach the final quantity.
I added half a gallon of pre-boiled water at room temperature on top of the yeast cake, and cooled down the wort to about 105f. I poured the wort into the fermentor, and added water at room temperature to reach the 2.5 gal. mark.
I did not do a temperature reading of the wort in the fermentor, but I guess it was around 85f.
The ambient temperature of the room was bellow 60f. So it should have cooled down to 65-70f. after an hour or two.

However, after 20 min. the airlock was going nuts. I had to make a blow-out solution, before the whole thing exploded. and the fermentation became more vigorous.

less then 20 hours after fermentation started, the blow-out jar is still bubling, but the rate has decreased.
When I took a gravity sample, to check what was going on, I saw that there was little to no krausen.
The gravity reading showed 1026. And from 1086 to 1026 in less than 20 hours is a way too big drop.

I guess the radical fermentation rate was caused by racking on active yeast, and the wort being too warm, and maybe the high gravity also played a role.

My worries are :
What will happen with the beer?
I tasted no prominent off-flavours from the gravity sample. But will it produce any horrible off flavours ?
Is it even safe to drink ? I mean. It sucks if the whole thing is pure methanol or fusel. I don't want my buddies to go blind or die from hangover after drinking my stuff.
And.. if there are any problems, can they be solved ? I would hate to pour this down the drain, because it's an expensive brew, and I think it might become a good beer.
Hope to get some good advice, or in worst case scenario- some hugs

 

[BrewSRQ]

I've never pitched on a yeast cake, however I have used a large amount of washed yeast with similar results, and that beer didn't have any odd flavors that would point at a yeast health issue. I'd let it ferment out for your usual time line to let the yeast clean up. Someone may correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd bet the pitch temp will be a lot more of a problew than than the hyperactive beginnings, and may lead to some fusels.

 

[TungstenBeer]

Someone may correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd bet the pitch temp will be a lot more of a problew than than the hyperactive beginnings, and may lead to some fusels.

Nope - I think you're right. This was my first thought as well.

 

[Wolfbayte]

1. yeah, you always want to cool your wort to proper temps before pitching yeast. Ferm at high temps may lead to off flavors, fusels, and other not-so-goodness. You won't know for sure, however, until you try it. RDWHAHB in the meantime.
2. You may want to read this, next time, to determine how much slurry to pitch, rather than the entire yeast cake: http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html. RDWHAHB in the meantime.
3. Some off flavors will age out with time, others may not. This may be the best tasting beer you've ever brewed, it may be the worst. You won't know until you try it. That may not be for another 6 months or more. Be patient and RDWHAHB in the meantime.
4. And for the sake of all that is good on this Earth, do not dump it. Let it age a year or more if it tastes "off." A big beer like that can survive time. Even if it ends up like black lightening and causes blindness, the fusels will evaporate at high temps, making this the perfect brew for cooking (chili), smoking (ribs), and baking (pretzels) et cetera.
5. Hugs and RDWHAHB

 

[HausBrauerei_Harvey]

I've read a good bit on this topic and I harvest/wash my yeast for subsequent batches, the consensus is you shouldn't do what you did because it's a big over-pitch and it will results in 'off-flavors' and a 'bad beer'.

with that being said I've been hearing more and more lately that it's really hard to suffer consequences of over-pitching on the homebrew scale, so I would say if it tastes fine, it's fine. Next time i'd only use about 1/4 or 1/2 of the slurry, depending on your OG. FWIW, I've taken to always over-pitching ~25% when pitching from slurry do build in a bit of a cushion if my numbers aren't right (estimations from harvested yeast is not super accurate). The consequences of under pitching are much worse than over-pitching a little bit, IMO.

 

[Tinpanharry]

I've read a good bit on this topic and I harvest/wash my yeast for subsequent batches, the consensus is you shouldn't do what you did because it's a big over-pitch and it will results in 'off-flavors' and a 'bad beer'.

with that being said I've been hearing more and more lately that it's really hard to suffer consequences of over-pitching on the homebrew scale, so I would say if it tastes fine, it's fine. Next time i'd only use about 1/4 or 1/2 of the slurry, depending on your OG. FWIW, I've taken to always over-pitching ~25% when pitching from slurry do build in a bit of a cushion if my numbers aren't right (estimations from harvested yeast is not super accurate). The consequences of under pitching are much worse than over-pitching a little bit, IMO.

+1, What he said. up there ^

 

[stpug]

I've read a good bit on this topic and I harvest/wash my yeast for subsequent batches, the consensus is you shouldn't do what you did because it's a big over-pitch and it will results in 'off-flavors' and a 'bad beer'.

I know Harvey countered this part of his statement in the latter half of his post, but I need to point out that you are not likely to end up with "off-flavors" or a "bad beer" simply because you pitched on a cake. I brewed a couple batches on yeastcakes and the beers came out fine, which isn't to say that it's good to pitch on a yeastcake - just that the beer isn't guaranteed of being bad or off.

 

[sakariss]

Thank you guys.

I'm not so worried about the yeast cake pitching.
I've tried to brew with washed yeast before, and it turned out fine. But this is my first attempt on racking on the yeast cake.
It's more the high pitching temperature and rapid fermentation that I'm worried about. I mean.. I boiled this yesterday, it should not be +7%ABV today.

But to weigh my paranoia a little :
Are there any dangers of possible fusels doing any harm (besides messing up the taste of the beer) ?

 

[Yooper]

T
It's more the high pitching temperature and rapid fermentation that I'm worried about. I mean.. I boiled this yesterday, it should not be +7%ABV today.

But to weigh my paranoia a little :
Are there any dangers of possible fusels doing any harm (besides messing up the taste of the beer) ?

Yep, the high temperature will cause off flavors. The overpitching only helped out with the explosive activity, as a 'hot' fermentation causes the yeast to be more active, and fermentation itself generates heat, so it gets hotter, which makes the yeast even more active, etc. It's a vicious cycle.

Pitching on an entire yeast cake is overpitching, and you could have just scooped out about 2/3 of it, or just used some of the yeast cake, etc, but that isn't the biggest issue. The biggest issue is the way too high fermentation temperature.

Besides fruity flavors (esters) like bananas or bubble gum, you may have some 'hot' flavors from fusels. None of this will hurt you, except for maybe getting a headache from consuming the fusels, but it may not taste as good as you'd hoped.

 

[sakariss]

The whip of your avatar illustrates the shame i feel about messing up the temperature.

But as damage control:
Should i rack it to secondary sooner then I would normally do. or is there anything i can do to save the best of my beer ?

 

[SnakeRidge]

The whip of your avatar illustrates the shame i feel about messing up the temperature.

But as damage control:
Should i rack it to secondary sooner then I would normally do. or is there anything i can do to save the best of my beer ?

Any damage is already done. As pointed out above, some will age out, some might not. Your best bet is to let it sit now that it is done fermenting an bottle or keg when successive gravity readings are stable. And maybe be prepared to let it sit for a few months.