Racking bubbles

[siletzspey]

After 2-3 months of aging in secondary/tertiary carboys, my wife and I racked everything into bottles. The odd part was... unlike the 71B apple and plum batches, the Pasteur Red apple batch produced some bubbles in the racking tube, and the Safale S-04 apple batch produced tons of bubbles. Everything tasted fine, and I tapped the bottles on a hard counter to evacuate the bubble prior to capping, but I am wondering if the bubbles are ok or bad?

Here's the racking setup. Hint - a cheap hot-water tank pan from your local hardware supply store makes for a great catch basin, or BBQ prep and shred basin.

When first siphoned in, there were no air bubbles throughout the tube. As the cider drained up the racking tube (right side), there were no air bubbles, but as soon as it rounded the bend and went down the tube (left side), bubbles spontaneously appeared en masse.

The bubbles seemed to dissipate quickly, and tapping the bottles on a hard surface caused the remaining bubbles to evacuate.

Several days prior, I did add ~50ppm k-meta to the pH ~3.7 cider.

Good or bad?

--SiletzSpey

 

[Yooper]

Bubbles are generally bad- but I'm wondering if your cider was simply a bit gassy, and that's where the bubbling is coming from.

 

[ChefRex]

Looks like CO2 coming out of solution to me.

 

[MaxStout]

Is there a loose fit where that tubing is slipped over the end of the racking cane? Perhaps some air was drawn in that way.

 

[siletzspey]

Is there a loose fit where that tubing is slipped over the end of the racking cane?

I believe the connection was tight, for sure the bubbles formed prior to hitting the junction, and the bubble rate seemed related to the batch being racked.

That said, if I flexed the tubing to make the flow straighter or more angular thru the junction, the edges of the junction seemed to trigger additional bubble formation.

I am curious about Yopper's "gassy" response.

Wrt the junction. When using normal 3/8" (?) tubing on the racking cane, I found it hard to prime the tubing without getting big air pockets. Using 1/4" (?) tubing instead, with a few inches of 3/8" as the coupler, priming without air pockets is trivial.

--SiletzSpey

 

[NeoBrew]

Did those bubbles flow back up to the top of the bend or did they form as the liquid was flowing around the bend?

They look rather large to be bubbles that just came out of solution. They do look just like the bubbles I get when my tubing is not adjusted just right on the end of the cane. I find I need to push that tubing quite a ways onto the end of the cane. (nearly up to the bend) Sometimes I even need to wiggle it a little to get it to fit snug and not let air in.

 

[MaxStout]

Wrt the junction. When using normal 3/8" (?) tubing on the racking cane, I found it hard to prime the tubing without getting big air pockets. Using 1/4" (?) tubing instead, with a few inches of 3/8" as the coupler, priming without air pockets is trivial.

--SiletzSpey

That's a fluid flow thing. Liquid flowing from a narrow tube to a larger one will draw air in from the outlet end and make that pocket. I discovered that when I connected 1/2" ID tubing to my 7/16" autosiphon. I had to use hose clamps to seal the junction, but it didn't stop the pocket from forming. I later switched to 7/16" ID tubing and it works fine.

 

[ubnserved]

Notice the two larger bubbles. .... I bet you have a Crack right there. Same place mine cracked then broke. It is sucking air in it looks like. The bubbles in the bottle may be CO2 coming out of solution and some air that your cane suckered in. Looks like flow is direction of arrow...
There is a picture of my cane now after breaking it a couple of times in the last 7 years. I have seen the same thing if I haven't attached the line far enough also. If it is cracked break or cut it off and keep using it like I have. I think mine broke on my second or third batch of beer.

 

[siletzspey]

Notice the two larger bubbles. .... I bet you have a Crack right there.

You compelled me to look. No cracks, but lo and behold, there are ~8 microscopic bumps in the plastic just before and thru the bend area. It looks like several half-flattened grain-of-salt speed bumps where the bubbles were first forming. The bubbles were most apparent at max flow.

I'm hoping for CO2 coming out of the solution.

Thanks for the feedback!

--SiletzSpey

 

[ubnserved]

Try to syphon plain water and see if you get nothing but clear. Make sure you have the setup the same as if you are bottling. In other words use the same tube and height for everything but you don't need a full bucket of water. Just need to make sure the weight of the water on the output side is close to the same as it was when you were bottling. Kinda weird.... how cold was your stuff when you were bottling? The only reason I still think that it could be holes is that at first I couldn't see the holes in mine without glasses on

 

[MaxStout]

You compelled me to look. No cracks, but lo and behold, there are ~8 microscopic bumps in the plastic just before and thru the bend area. It looks like several half-flattened grain-of-salt speed bumps where the bubbles were first forming. The bubbles were most apparent at max flow.

I'm hoping for CO2 coming out of the solution.

Thanks for the feedback!

--SiletzSpey

Those bumps might act as nucleation points, bringing CO2 out of solution. If there is no breach in the walls of the tubing and cane, the connection is tight, and air isn't being drawn in from the end, it seems to point to an internal source.

I second ubnserved's idea of pumping some plain water through it to see if it reoccurs.
Edit: when doing this, watch the tubing carefully and see if any air bubbles are being drawn in from the output end. If not, you can rule that out.

 

[nbstl68]

I'm just reading through posts trying to learn more. Could someone tell me why bubbles in the tube are bad?
As long as there are none (no air?) in the bottle? I' m sure I don't properly understand.

 

[Hoosierbrewer]

I just bought a new auto siphon. Old one was making bubbles. New one is perfect. After 12 years I thought i would splurge. Problem solved

 

[Hoosierbrewer]

It could lead to oxidization in beer. I am not sure how much is fact and how much is myth

 

[siletzspey]

Those bumps might act as nucleation points ... I second ubnserved's idea of pumping some plain water through it to see if it reoccurs

I racked 3 different ciders back-to-back. The Safale S-04 cider was very bubbly, the Pasteur Red was somewhat bubbly, and the Lalvin 71B was bubble free. The ciders were all bubble free in the carboys, and bubble free in the cane up until the bend. After dis-assembly and cleaning, I racked some plum and cherry wines without bubbles. The S-04 and Pasteur just seemed to be gassy.

If the gas was indeed CO2 (instead of oxygen), is there any concern? I assume SO2 would not lead to oxidation.

--SiletzSpey

 

[Hoosierbrewer]

I doubt it. My cider with s-04 is bubbly when I move it in primary

 

[MarkKF]

I doubt it. My cider with s-04 is bubbly when I move it in primary

I have two carboys of S-04 I started in Oct. and two more of Brewers Best Cider I started in Nov. The S-04 is crystal clear but still has a few small bubbles rising.

 

[Wolfbayte]

Bubbles are generally bad- but I'm wondering if your cider was simply a bit gassy, and that's where the bubbling is coming from.

+1

I just had the same thing happen last night. Apple cider made with S-04 and bubbles forming an air pocket where the cane meets the tube when racking into bottling bucket. I pinched it off and it came back several times. Noticed bubbles in the bottles too (clear Newcastle bottles) and in the hose going to the wand and was concerned we had a leak and 2 cases of oxidized cider.

Checked HBT last night and saw this thread, so first thing this am, siphoned oxyclean water from the carboy into fermenter with the same tubing, cane, and auto siphon and lo and behold: no bubbles, no air pocket, just clear water. Cider is good to go.

Thanks for posting this. I feel better and can RDWHAHB.