Quick sweet beer for blending

[Joewalla88]

I just sampled a couple of sours I brewed a while back, and they taste good, but are a more sour than what I was going for. I was thinking of brewing a small batch of somethung sweeter to blend with them. Does anyone have any quick easy recipes for something like this. I was even thinking about just grabbing a couple lbs of amber extract, maybe adding some extra crystal malt, and a pinch of saaz hops. I don't know if I want to do a full on mash for it, but I'm willing to if it'll make a big difference.

 

[tagz]

Giving the bugs more sugar is just going to result in more sour beer. I would brew a dry saison to blend. That way you can bring up the pH without giving the bacteria much to work with.

 

[Joewalla88]

I'm not super worried about the bugs doing more souring. I was thinking I'd pasteurize the bottles once they tasted right. Any reason this would be a bad idea. These are my first aged sours I've done. Most of my sours so far have been sour wort, or sour mash type beers, so I'm still trying to figure out some of the tricks.

 

[Joewalla88]

Would Belle Saison yeast work well for this idea?

 

[LakesideBrewing]

Giving the bugs more sugar is just going to result in more sour beer. I would brew a dry saison to blend. That way you can bring up the pH without giving the bacteria much to work with.

This.

 

[burninator]

Would Belle Saison yeast work well for this idea?

Personally I think that's a great yeast to use. It was the base in my mixed culture for a while. It will dry out a beer thoroughly while leaving some body.

 

[tagz]

I'm not super worried about the bugs doing more souring. I was thinking I'd pasteurize the bottles once they tasted right. Any reason this would be a bad idea. These are my first aged sours I've done. Most of my sours so far have been sour wort, or sour mash type beers, so I'm still trying to figure out some of the tricks.

I've never pasteurized but I think it would be difficult to do at home without compromising the profile of the beer. Places like New Belgium use in-line flash pasteurization which only exposes the beer to heat for a very brief period of time. I would be afraid that slowly bringing your batch/bottles up to 160 would result in off flavors.

 

[Joewalla88]

Yeah, I just read a little bit more about it the American Sour Beer book. It looks like a PITA, and that it can deaden the taste of the beer. Dry saison it is. Thanks for the advice.

 

[tagz]

No problem! Definitely report back!

 

[Joewalla88]

Sorry, I have a couple more questions. One, how dry should I get the saison for blending? Two, should I blend at bottling, or should I blend in a fermenter to let the brett finish up any leftovers in the saison before bottling?

 

[tagz]

I'd try to get the saison below 1.005. 3711 would be the easiest way to go but most saison strains should get you that low if you treat them right.

I would personally blend in a carboy or keg, and let it sit for 4-6 weeks to see if it knocks down a few points. You could use champagne or Belgian bottles and prime on the low side of you want to blend at bottling but the safest route is to let it work things out in a carboy.

 

[Joewalla88]

That's kinda what I was thinking. Thanks for the help.

 

[sweetcell]

One, how dry should I get the saison for blending?

as dry as you can, hence the recommendation to use 3711/Belle Saison - the most attenuating yeast we know of. any residual sugar could result in additional acidity (or not, depending on which microbe ferments out the sugar). so by keeping the sugars as low as possible, you're limiting new acidity while diluting the existing acidity.

Two, should I blend at bottling, or should I blend in a fermenter to let the brett finish up any leftovers in the saison before bottling?

you can do either one, but going straight into a bottle means that the residual sugars will contribute to carbonation so you'll need to reduce your priming sugar accordingly. the mad fermentationist has a spreadsheet that does this calculation. keep in mind that it's all an estimate, so prime a bit on the low side and use thick glass if you can.

if you let the two beers age out together for a few months before bottling, then you can prime as normal.

 

[Joewalla88]

Thanks, I found the calculation you're talking about, but I think letting them age together might be a good idea. Do you think a 7 gallon bucket would work for that? My carboy only holds 5 gallons. I might be over thinking all of this.

 

[burninator]

You shouldn't need much (if any) head space, if that's your concern.

 

[Joewalla88]

Actually, it's just that when I blend them I'll have too much beer to fit in the carboy, but I'm not sure if bucket would be an adequate aging vessel. It might be okay for just a month or two, but I'm not sure.

 

[tagz]

I would try to minimize headspace as much as possible. I don't know how big your batch is or what kind of vessels you have around, but I would fill the 5 gallon as much as possible and then maybe do overflow into a jug or two. You'll want to avoid oxygen pickup for the aging period. A little is ok, but too much can promote acetic acid production and give the beer a sharp vinegar-like bite.

 

[Joewalla88]

That's what I'm afraid of. It would be a 7 gallon batch in a 7 gallon bucket, so there wouldn't be much headspace, but I have heard that buckets tend to let more oxygen in than carboys, which makes sense to me. I might be getting ahead of myself. I should probably brew my "blender", see how that turns out, and go from there.

 

[sweetcell]

It would be a 7 gallon batch in a 7 gallon bucket, so there wouldn't be much headspace, but I have heard that buckets tend to let more oxygen in than carboys

aging in a bucket can indeed be risky. the plastic lets through some O2, and the lid's seal isn't perfect.

if you project having 7 gallons, i would use your 5 gal carboy and get some 1 gallon jugs. apple juice and apple cider can be bought in 1 gallon glass jugs. get two of those, drink 'em (or ferment the juice into cider if it's the right kind), then use those.

 

[Joewalla88]

I have a few of those laying around. That's a good idea. Thanks.

 

[eric19312]

You could also bottle some of the "too sour" beer before blending in order to be able to do a side by side later on to really understand how the blending changed the beer.

 

[sweetcell]

I have a few of those laying around. That's a good idea. Thanks.

you'll want to put an air lock on the jugs. bring your 1-gallon jugs to your homebrew supply shop to find the right stoppers for them.

 

[Joewalla88]

You could also bottle some of the "too sour" beer before blending in order to be able to do a side by side later on to really understand how the blending changed the beer.

That's not a bad idea. Maybe I'll bottle a gallon just to for comparison sake.

 

[Joewalla88]

you'll want to put an air lock on the jugs. bring your 1-gallon jugs to your homebrew supply shop to find the right stoppers for them.

I've got airlocks for them. I use them for experimental brews and ciders.

 

[Joewalla88]

Okay, so I whipped a quick 2 gallon batch. I fermented with belle saison. In two weeks it fermented out to 1.004-1.006ish. Should I still age this with the sour, or do you think this is fermented out enough to blend and bottle at the same time. Is there an added benefit to aging a month or so after blending?

 

[tagz]

Nice! So the benefit to blending in a carboy and giving it some time is that you'll have much more control over your carbonation levels. 1.004 is nice and dry but the Brett may or may not take it down to zero. You could prime on the lighter side to account for the extra gravity points but you might end up with undercarbed bottles. You've put a bunch of time and effort into this batch, I'd blend s give it four weeks before you bottle. But with a 2 gallon addition it shouldn't be super overcarbed if you blended at bottling. Your call

 

[Joewalla88]

Thanks for the input. I think I'll go ahead and let it sit for a little bit. It might be a good idea to let the flavors meld a little bit too.

 

[Joewalla88]

So, I decided to bottle a gallon of sour as is. I tasted a hydrometer sample, and it wasn't as tart as I remember. So I blended in a gallon of saison. I'm hoping its enough just to cut back on the sharpness. I then bottled the rest of the saison. Now I have a variety of beers to look forward to. I'm excited for the finished product.

 

[madscientist451]

I'd do series of blending trials before mixing any more beer. You said you tasted a sample of your sour beer, and its not as tart, so how did the sour beer/saison taste work out? I'd try a series of different ratios and let others taste them too. Like 1/3 sour 2/3 saison, half and half and 2/3 sour and 1/3 saison. If you don't like the siaison/sour beer mixture I'd go back and brew the same base beer as your sour, let it age about 3 months, and do blending trials with that.

 

[Joewalla88]

Argh! Sours are so much work. Just kidding. It's probably too late to do anymore blending experiments, but I do have another sour brewing, so maybe I'll experiment some more with that one. I did eyeball a 2 part saison 3 part sour in the hydrometer for a taste test, and it was good, but the "spice" of the saison seemed a little over powering. I'll let you know how this one goes, and I'll figure out how I want to blend this next one too.