Question on brewing

[Don]

I just received a kit from AHS and it has
"BrewVint Yeast Fuel:
A proprietary blend of yeast nutrients & clarifying agent that supports the yeast fermentation process"
I must have checked it to add to my order, well anyway, I usually add Irish moss near the end of the boil do I still add the moss with this?

Another question on the water amount.
I have a 35 qt SS pot I use. and usually start with 5 gallons. Their instructions said to heat to 2 1/2 gal to 155 for the grain, then after 15 minutes remove (the grain) boil water and add the extract.

Wouldn't I be better to add another 2 1/2 gallons before the boil instead of adding the water to the frememter?

Thanks
Don

 

[Brewtopia]

I've not used it before but I believe you add it at the last 10 min of the boil.

 

[the_bird]

Yeast nutrient is important for meads, but there's generally enough of the other stuff that yeast need already in beer wort.

 

[RoaringBrewer]

Be careful changing up the boil amount without adjusting hop additions...

The hop additions in the recipe are based on the 2.5gal boil so you'll reach the target IBU for the recipe by following the recipe. If you boil more water (lower gravity of the boil) the hop utilization will be better, thus you will have a higher IBU result.

Maybe you want that, maybe you don't...

Some brewing software would be helpful in adjusting the recipe if you want to do a full boil. A full boil is a great idea, but changing it (boil amount) without changing the hop additions could have an adverse effect in some cases.

 

[berudd]

You also do not want to steep the grains in too much water. More water results in lower concentrations duing the steep and can lead to tanins being pulled out of the grain leading to off flavors. The general rule I have heard it to use 1 gal per pound of steeping grains.

 

[Don]

Be careful changing up the boil amount without adjusting hop additions...

The hop additions in the recipe are based on the 2.5gal boil so you'll reach the target IBU for the recipe by following the recipe. If you boil more water (lower gravity of the boil) the hop utilization will be better, thus you will have a higher IBU result.

Maybe you want that, maybe you don't...

Some brewing software would be helpful in adjusting the recipe if you want to do a full boil. A full boil is a great idea, but changing it (boil amount) without changing the hop additions could have an adverse effect in some cases.

So that is why my last batch tasted so different than my sons. He only boils @21/2 gal and adds the rest to his fermemter where I boiled the 5 gals and had to make up @1 gal.!
I'm using 1 lb of grains (1/2lb of German Pilsner & 1/2lb Carapils) so I should use @ 1 gal at 155 to steep the grain for @15 min. Then can I take my ss strainer and put the grain bag in it, and pour hot @170 deg water to get every think out of the grain bag, and use this to make up the additional 1 1/2 gal I need for the boil?

Then follow the recipe and add the rest of the water to the fermemter to make up the 5 gal batch.


Which brings up another good question... I read and always have tryed to leave the trub in the bottom when I pour off ithe worth, where my son (using the strainer) just dumps the entire batch into the fermemter.
Does this matter, we are both using secondarys?

Thanks

 

[Yooper]

Yes, that's why your batch would have a different hop profile than your son's. It sounds like what you're planning is exactly right.

As far as putting the cooled wort into the fermenter, it doesn't really matter if you strain, dumped it all it, or siphon it in leaving the junk behind. I strain for a couple of reasons- I have less debris in there, and it helps to aerate the wort. I still have quite a bit of trub when I racked to secondary, but not as much as before I strained!

Lorena

 

[Don]

Thanks all for the help
Yes I'm still in the extract stages this is my first grain.
I plan on moving up to mini-mashing and HG soon as I understand what I'm doing.
Been able to read a lot on this site and hope to learn by others.

Thanks for all the advice Tonight will be my third brew.

Don

 

[JnJ]

You also do not want to steep the grains in too much water. More water results in lower concentrations duing the steep and can lead to tanins being pulled out of the grain leading to off flavors. The general rule I have heard it to use 1 gal per pound of steeping grains.

I have never heard of this. It is my understanding that tanins is the result of high temps, not the water quantity.

 

[Yooper]

I have never heard of this. It is my understanding that tanins is the result of high temps, not the water quantity.

According to John Palmer's book "How to Brew", there are several things that affect steeping- water chemistry, and too little or too much water. He says that for best results, the grains should be less than one gallon per pound of grain. Temperature and time are more critical. Even at a lower temperature (say 150), tannins can be extracted if steeped too long (hours).

Really, nothing to worry about. But it's best to follow the directions for your first recipes, until you get the process down.

Lorena

 

[beerfan]

I never had a problem adding water after the boil. In fact when I was using extract kits adding the water after boil helped me get to the proper pitching temperature faster. I used a shower head with cold water to fill up the fermenter, cool the wort and aeriate it all at once.

 

[JnJ]

According to John Palmer's book "How to Brew", there are several things that affect steeping- water chemistry, and too little or too much water. He says that for best results, the grains should be less than one gallon per pound of grain. Temperature and time are more critical. Even at a lower temperature (say 150), tannins can be extracted if steeped too long (hours).

Really, nothing to worry about. But it's best to follow the directions for your first recipes, until you get the process down.

Lorena

Hmmm I still don't see how the amount of water affects tannins extraction... I understand how time and temp can. I haven't found that in John's book either. Anyone got a page number?

 

[the_bird]

Hmmm I still don't see how the amount of water affects tannins extraction... I understand how time and temp can. I haven't found that in John's book either. Anyone got a page number?

The amount of water relative to the amount of grain is going to impact the water's PH, which is one of the most important factors in tannin extraction. At least, that's my understanding.

This is more of an issue with AG brewing, but seems like it might apply to steeping as well.

 

[Yooper]

Hmmm I still don't see how the amount of water affects tannins extraction... I understand how time and temp can. I haven't found that in John's book either. Anyone got a page number?

The only thing I find in the book about steeping is on pages 134-135. That's where he states to use less than 1 gallon per pound of grain. He doesn't mention tannins in that paragraph- and I didn't say he did. I just said he recommends to use that amount of water, per 1 pound of grain. Water chemistry is involved (PH) but time and temperature are the critical ones.

Lorena

 

[JnJ]

Ok, I've only seen Temp mentioned in connection with tannins extraction. pH being a factor is new to me. Thanks bird and Lorenae.

 

[RoaringBrewer]

So that is why my last batch tasted so different than my sons. He only boils @21/2 gal and adds the rest to his fermemter where I boiled the 5 gals and had to make up @1 gal.!
I'm using 1 lb of grains (1/2lb of German Pilsner & 1/2lb Carapils) so I should use @ 1 gal at 155 to steep the grain for @15 min. Then can I take my ss strainer and put the grain bag in it, and pour hot @170 deg water to get every think out of the grain bag, and use this to make up the additional 1 1/2 gal I need for the boil?

Then follow the recipe and add the rest of the water to the fermemter to make up the 5 gal batch.

Thanks

That would be exactly why. Let's take a simple example.

Recipe:
7.5 lb. Liquid Extract = OG of ~1.055
1oz. Chinook 12%AA Hops for 60 Mins
1oz. Cascade Hops 5.5%AA for 30 Mins
.5oz Cascard Hops 5.5%AA for 5 Mins

This recipe if done full boil (5.5 gallons taking into consideration boil off) would result in ~58 IBU of bitterness due to the good utilization rate of the hops (per Beersmith software).

If you reduce the boil for the exact same recipe to 2.5 gallons and use 3 gallons top off water at the end, you will achieve ~26 IBU of bitterness due to the lesser utilization (more extract/sugars/etc in less water = less room for the bitter hop oils to absorb into the wort) of the hops in the smaller boil.

You will almost definitely notice a difference between 26 and 58 IBU brews...

Simple answer to your original question is to follow the recipe exactly (boil size and hop additions especially) unless you have brewing software (or do a manual recalc of IBU) to correct the recipe appropriately.

Hope this helps.