question on adding malt extract to cider

[owmatooth]

So for the past year or two I've been keeping one of my four taps as a cider. I make a very plain cider with 5 gallons of motts and american ale II yeast. comes out fine, though a little boring. I'm not looking to add fruit to flavor it up, but i have thrown an extra gallon or two of any pale ale i might have into it with good results, adds a little malty flavor and body and cuts down on the apple-ness.
my idea is to add a few lbs of light dme to the fermenter, and maybe then replacing a gallon of the cider with water. i was wondering if i have to boil the dme first, or just mix it into the water prior to adding the juice and yeast. anyone fool around with this sort of frankencider?

 

[Calder]

Do a search on the forums for Graff (I think that is what it has been called), you should find a lot about this type of brew.

Sealed extract is sanitized, you can use it without boiling.

 

[owmatooth]

Do a search on the forums for Graff (I think that is what it has been called), you should find a lot about this type of brew.

Sealed extract is sanitized, you can use it without boiling.

thanks. i think the issue is the purpose of the boil, if there are no hop additons, and it is a sealed extract, so no sanitation issues, there really isn't any purpose of boiling the extract, all you really need to do is rehydrate it (in the case of dme). I know the beer that can be made with half beer half cider style, but that involves making a half batch of each, i'm trying to take a short cut using extract and ferment them both in one vessel. but with all shortcuts, i will temper my expectations. thanks for the input.

 

[Calder]

If you search Graff, you will find it is a single fermentation (with ale yeast I believe) of apple juice and extract.

Supposedly boiling extracts proteins from the extract, and if you boil it, you will see break material. But, it has previously been boiled when made, and many recipes add it after boil. I don't think it needs to be boiled, but heating will help it dissolve.

 

[JimRausch]

Brandon O. on this forum is the King of Graf (although I think he calls it Graff). If you have an hour or two, spend some time reading the thread.
My recipe is different from his, but basically I do a mash of 3 G wort, hopped to about 20 IBU and start that fermenting. 2-3 days later I add 2.5-3G fresh cider. I don't add the cider the same day because what I usually can find has been sorbated, so I want to build up a big yeast mass and have it actively fermenting before adding the cider. Alternatively, adding a couple gallons of already fermented beer to already fermented cider as you did, sounds like an easy and probably tasty plan. That way you can try different varieties of beer and see what you like the best.