Question for Spike Unintank owners.

[ArmyDoc87]

I currently have a 14 gal ss unitank which overall has been a wonderful upgrade for me. My biggest complaint with the tank is the fact that I paid all that money for a tank that took hours to hand scrub with TSP to get the manufacturing oils "off".

I still get a bit of a black line at the top of my krausen line which means I haven't gotten all the oils off and I have scrubbed it twice....

I am looking at another new unitank in the new year and I want to know:

1) does the spike unitank require as much pre-use cleaning?

2) are current spike users getting the black line of oils at the top of the yeast line on the tank?

 

[Blazinlow86]

I get neither on mine and and very happy with it. Cheers

 

[Punjom]

I currently have a 14 gal ss unitank which overall has been a wonderful upgrade for me. My biggest complaint with the tank is the fact that I paid all that money for a tank that took hours to hand scrub with TSP to get the manufacturing oils "off".

I still get a bit of a black line at the top of my krausen line which means I haven't gotten all the oils off and I have scrubbed it twice....

I am looking at another new unitank in the new year and I want to know:

1) does the spike unitank require as much pre-use cleaning?

2) are current spike users getting the black line of oils at the top of the yeast line on the tank?

Are you sure it’s still mfg oils? Have you acid washed or tried to clean with Bar Keepers or PBW?

 

[Rev2010]

I still get a bit of a black line at the top of my krausen line which means I haven't gotten all the oils off and I have scrubbed it twice....

How can you be sure that's what it means? There are tons of threads on various different forums from users of various different stainless fermenter brands reporting the black lines. I'd seen it too on my first couple of brew buckets, but it never had any negative impact on the beer's taste. And funny enough, I scrubbed my first 3 Ss Brew Buckets with TSP. My two new one's I simply washed with PBW and did the StarSan passivation they recommend (which is now highly debated as to effectiveness) and I haven't seen any black rings. Some people have said it's hop oils reacting to the stainless, but common consensus is that it's manufacturing oils - probably due to associating with the black you get wiping with paper towels after cleaning. But if you've cleaned it several times and used it several times I highly doubt it's still left over manufacturing residue. After a few uses and washes it should all be gone.

If you're still concerned fill it with water and dishwashing soap that breaks down oils. They clean oil spill affected wildlife with it and even Spike Brewing says to use dishwashing detergent in their instructions. Let it soak for a couple of hours then rinse the bajeezus out of it. If you still get black rings it's just krausen reactions against the steel and just stop worrying about it.


Rev.

 

[augiedoggy]

I think the fact that spikes products have further surface/polishing work done to them after manufacturing which removes the machining oils and ss product still have the rough machined surface which holds on to such contaminates better doesnt help... I often wonder why the prices are so close when its fairly obvious less cost/work goes int making the ss tanks and kettles which should net them a fairly good manufacturing discount from the chinese manufacturer no? Ive read much of the polishing is done by hand and can leave its own black residue but one that comes off fairly easily, at least it did on our polished chinese kettles.

I have both polished and non polished fermenters at home and find the polished ones easier to clean personally.

 

[ArmyDoc87]

I have cleaned the tank with PBW, both types of star stan, TSP and hand washed with a clean paper towel...and the line is still there after 10 batches. I doubt it makes a flavor difference. I just talked to a colleague of mine who has 2 ss unitanks too and says he has the exact same issue.

I know its not hop oils since I brew mainly lagers and English ales..very little hopping. I have to think its from left of residue....so far one spike owner says he never sees it.

Maybe I will try soap.

Again, for that amount of money....its annoying to even have see. I think I am going with spike for the next one since it looks like a better polish. I like the design of the unitank better, but after some more reading last evening, there certainly seems to be some QC issues with the SS tanks. I just wish the spike had one more TC port on it for a oxygen/carb stone.

 

[Vale71]

The black or brown spots on the kräusen is due to hop resins (bittering hops) and not hop oils (aroma hops), so what really matters is the IBU level, plus they need to be oxidized to change color. Do you perform natural carbonation, never opening the tank after pitching yeast, or do you force carbonate after maybe having opened the tank up to dry-hop?
I have a Unitank and perform natural carbonation never opening the tank after pitching and the kräusen stays white till the very end, including residue on the tank walls, even on high IBU beers. If it's an ale then there might be yeast left, but it too will just dry up without noticeably darkening. Maybe what you're seeing is just a result of late oxygen ingress?

 

[mongoose33]

When I bought my Spike CF10, I also purchased the CIP ball. The first time it was set up I filled it partly with hot water and PBW, and set the CIP ball a-workin'. Probably let it run for 30 minutes. Then I drained and rinsed and ran it again with clear hot water, then finally sprayed it all down with Star-San.

I've never had a black line, and no off-flavors in the beer that might be attributed to manufacturing oils.

 

[Rev2010]

Again, for that amount of money....its annoying to even have see.

And again, some of us are trying to tell you it's most likely *not* a flaw in the manufacturing or treatment of your Ss Unitank. People with all brands of stainless fermenters report this, and if you've cleaned it with all those cleaners, plus have used and cleaned it 10 more times, how can you honestly think it's yet still left over manufacturing oils? They'd have to be the most ridiculously resilient oils to still be left over after all that. And if your cleaning didn't remove it all than why would fermentation clean it out better? And if fermentation cleans it out then why is it still showing up after ten batches?

I think it's something else, perhaps what Vale71 says, hop resins. Either way, why not just relax about it?? So far you haven't seemed to mention any problems with your beers, you just seem to be obsessing over it

As for the Spike, yeah go with Spike for your next purchase then. Simple answer, especially seeing some of the recent Unitank issues and extra cost.


Rev.

 

[Blazinlow86]

I have cleaned the tank with PBW, both types of star stan, TSP and hand washed with a clean paper towel...and the line is still there after 10 batches. I doubt it makes a flavor difference. I just talked to a colleague of mine who has 2 ss unitanks too and says he has the exact same issue.

I know its not hop oils since I brew mainly lagers and English ales..very little hopping. I have to think its from left of residue....so far one spike owner says he never sees it.

Maybe I will try soap.

Again, for that amount of money....its annoying to even have see. I think I am going with spike for the next one since it looks like a better polish. I like the design of the unitank better, but after some more reading last evening, there certainly seems to be some QC issues with the SS tanks. I just wish the spike had one more TC port on it for a oxygen/carb stone.

Also fwiw Spike's oxygen/carb stone connects to the racking port. It also works excellent. Cheers

 

[Youngster]

I have both, personally I just recirculate through either my boil or HLT and use the CIP while continuously heating the water, worked well.

The spike you can take the top off and have easy access, however the spike also doesn’t come with anything, you pretty much get the shell, where as the SS Brewtech comes with almost everything.

 

[augiedoggy]

I have both, personally I just recirculate through either my boil or HLT and use the CIP while continuously heating the water, worked well.

The spike you can take the top off and have easy access, however the spike also doesn’t come with anything, you pretty much get the shell, where as the SS Brewtech comes with almost everything.

that helps justify the lack of polishwork pricewise.

 

[Youngster]

that helps justify the lack of polishwork pricewise.

Also not a big fan of Spikes top, the gasket is a pain to get on by yourself.
Keg lube helps a bit. Where as the 8” Tc is much easier to work.

 

[specialkayme]

I have both

If you had to get only one, which would you get and why?

The SS Brewtech appears to be a better design, but with the recent manufacturing issues and poorer finish when compared to Spike, I'm not sure if it's worth it.

 

[Youngster]

If you had to get only one, which would you get and why?

The SS Brewtech appears to be a better design, but with the recent manufacturing issues and poorer finish when compared to Spike, I'm not sure if it's worth it.

Honestly, the question I would have is how many are really affected, how many are sold? Hard to say what % of bad ones.

I prefer the design of the SSbrewtech because you always have a PRV/pressure gauge and blow off port. Pressure gauge is also noticely better.

Spike you have to disconnect the blow off and put the PRV/Pressure Gauge/CO2 Manifold. Not a big deal, just annoying considering they could’ve added another 1.5” TC.

I would stay away from spikes re branded inkbird which means you can’t buy the all in one package. From what I’ve read, it only allows you to set +/- 3f, where as my inkbird allows +/- 1f. If this is something you’re really worried about or not is up you. They also didn’t have the package when I purchased mine.

 

[specialkayme]

Honestly, the question I would have is how many are really affected, how many are sold? Hard to say what % of bad ones.

The problem I have isn't necessarily in the percentage of bad ones. The bad welds and manufacturing issues that I've seen that have cracks, scratches, or other blemishes aren't always in readily obvious locations that you can see. If a bad weld has a place that bacteria can harbor, I may not notice it. I also may put a dozen or so brews through the conical before bacteria makes it into the crack, all but ruining the fermenter. SS Brewtech has a 1 year limited warranty. So if I do get a bad one, what are the odds that I'll notice it, or have the problem make itself obvious, in the first 12 months?

If you don't notice it in the first year, that's a very expensive piece of equipment you have lying around that you can't do anything with.

But I appreciate your feedback. Thanks for giving me the inside information!

 

[Rev2010]

I also may put a dozen or so brews through the conical before bacteria makes it into the crack, all but ruining the fermenter.

Wouldn't it stand to reason if your beer can make it to contact the crack and bacteria infect it that the sanitizer you sanitize the fermenter with before filling would also reach the same area and kill the bacteria before filling?


Rev.

 

[SpikeBrewing]

I would stay away from spikes re branded inkbird which means you can’t buy the all in one package. From what I’ve read, it only allows you to set +/- 3f, where as my inkbird allows +/- 1f. If this is something you’re really worried about or not is up you. They also didn’t have the package when I purchased mine.

As an FYI our controller is +/- 1F. We worked with Inkbird directly to program the settings to work specifically with our coiling coil and heater based on all our testing.

 

[specialkayme]

Wouldn't it stand to reason if your beer can make it to contact the crack and bacteria infect it that the sanitizer you sanitize the fermenter with before filling would also reach the same area and kill the bacteria before filling?

You'd think so, but actually it doesn't work that way. Small scratches, crevices, or hiding places often can't get reached by sanitizers:

"These scratches can be just about impossible to sanitize. They can be narrow enough to harbor bacteria, but surface tension can keep sanitizers from being able to get in and thoroughly clean . . ."
Source:https://beerandbrewing.com/pick-your-fermentor-part-i-plastic-buckets-glass-carboys-and-pet-plastic/

It's the same reason why it's never a good idea to use an abrasive scrubbing pad on a plastic or metal fermenter. It can create very small scratches that can harbor infections. It makes the fermenter nearly impossible to clean or use. It's also why you'll hear or read stories of small breweries that had an infected beer issue, and they had to completely replace some of their lines to solve the problem. If Starsan solved the problem, they would have just run it through the lines and saved a couple thousand dollars. But unfortunately the sanitizer doesn't always get everything.

 

[Youngster]

The problem I have isn't necessarily in the percentage of bad ones. The bad welds and manufacturing issues that I've seen that have cracks, scratches, or other blemishes aren't always in readily obvious locations that you can see. If a bad weld has a place that bacteria can harbor, I may not notice it. I also may put a dozen or so brews through the conical before bacteria makes it into the crack, all but ruining the fermenter. SS Brewtech has a 1 year limited warranty. So if I do get a bad one, what are the odds that I'll notice it, or have the problem make itself obvious, in the first 12 months?

If you don't notice it in the first year, that's a very expensive piece of equipment you have lying around that you can't do anything with.

But I appreciate your feedback. Thanks for giving me the inside information!

How many people leave feedback in general? I haven’t left any reviews/feedback for spike/ssbrewtech or stout which I own all. So if you only hear about the bad ones, how do you really compare? I don’t leave reviews for many things tbh, mostly because I’m lazy. I’ve heard and read bad things about all 3 companies and I haven’t had an issue with either one, so for me, it’s hard to say.

For me, it’s like buying anything, a vehicle, electronics and even parts for where I work, sometimes you get a few bad apples out of the bunch, oh well, get it replaced. Just my .02

 

[specialkayme]

How many people leave feedback in general?

That's playing a dangerous game.

You could guess that 1% of people leave feedback. Or 25%. You could speculate that only the people that had bad experiences leave feedback, or you could speculate that only the people that had great experiences leave feedback, as all others just "replace and move on." Or maybe it's both all the bad and all the great, and everyone in the middle fails to review. Ultimately, who really knows?

Instead, all you can do is take into consideration the reviews that you have seen. Maybe it's an accurate representation of the group, maybe it's not. But the reviews probably weren't lying. Which means some of the SS buyers had manufacturing defects, and some of the Spike buyers had concerns or issues with the design. I've seen some reviews of manufacturing defects from Spike's kettles, but haven't seen any on their Unitanks. That doesn't mean 100% are free from defects, of course. But can you honestly say you should ignore all reviews of people that report poor welds and defects?

I
For me, it’s like buying anything, a vehicle, electronics and even parts for where I work, sometimes you get a few bad apples out of the bunch, oh well, get it replaced. Just my .02

Not really comparing apples to apples in my opinion.

Vehicles can have bad parts, not really bad vehicles. Replace/repair the part. If it doesn't work, there are lemon laws for those issues.
Electronics come with 1-3 year warranties, and your CC gives an additional 1 year warranty. The vast majority of electronic defects show up in the first 6 months. Beyond that it's difficult to tell what was a defect and what was just wear and tear, or a useable item getting used up.

But with a metal fermenter, there shouldn't be wear and tear that impacts its useful life. A conical should outlive me, and if it's defective and you replace it within a year you're fine. If you don't know of the defect until 18 months (or if you age an Imperial Stout or a Mead for a year, it would delay the time you'd be able to identify some defects), you're screwed. You can't just replace the unitank. The unitank is the item. You have to replace everything. Especially with SS, as all the valves and addons come with it already, so it's a $1,000 worthless item. If you have more than one, good luck to you. Sure it can happen anyway, but it's certainly something I'd like to avoid. Especially if it simply involves listening to a few reviews.

 

[augiedoggy]

Also not a big fan of Spikes top, the gasket is a pain to get on by yourself.
Keg lube helps a bit. Where as the 8” Tc is much easier to work.

I have a full clasp ring top on my 12.5 gallon conical that looks to be designed the same way but im not just how the silicone seal works on the spike model. on mine the seal just stays on the edge perimeter of the lid and its as simple as lifting it on or off and clasping or unclasping..

 

[augiedoggy]

Wouldn't it stand to reason if your beer can make it to contact the crack and bacteria infect it that the sanitizer you sanitize the fermenter with before filling would also reach the same area and kill the bacteria before filling?


Rev.

yes... This is the logic that seems to escape many. The crack would have to be substantial to harbor a thick enough deposit that sanitizer wouldnt fully neutralize in short order. the sanitizer would soak into the deposit and not necessarily go around or behind it.

Think about something here.. While we scrutinize these conicals and brite tanks with hypotheticals here there are micro and nano breweries all over the country that use plastic drums and conicals or repurposed dairy tanks as fermenters and a large majority do not disassemble all the weldless fittings or joints between brews and never have an issue..when I ask about this stuff Ive had eyes rolled at me numerous times. I spoke with one brewery owner whos been open for years that mentioned he doesnt even always clean and sanitize his kegs between filling them. if its the same type of beer he gives them a quick rinse and refills them. Its not something Id really feel comfortable with myself but think about it, its a sealed tank with no oxygen.. Where would the infection come from? if someone cleans the brite tank right after use and enough sanitizer is left in it to cover and ports or potential hiding places thats really enough to keep the infections from occurring.

I have one chinese conical that had a TC drain fitting welded from the outside and a large seam inside where the tc fitting slipped int the hole they never sealed up.
I bought it used and the crevice was large and deep enough that even with soaking with starsan I had an infection with first use. So I sealed the crevice with JB weld and have never had a single issue since (5+years now and that was literally my only infected beer ever). Even though there is a potential surface transition where some would think bacteria could hide the truth is its so small now its a non concern. I see people flip out about a little scratch in their kettle or fermenter walls and to me based on my experience its a non issue. You realize some people use things like oak and beachwood in the fermenters right?

What id like to hear from are all the people that have had infections and problems from these welds and scratches? If it were really an issue you would see a lot of reports from lazy brewers using older SSbrewtech and blichman conicals with all the weldless fitting in them since Ive seen multiple admissions from owners here they never have to remove or clean them and never have issues... even the seam where the edpm meets the stainless on the inside of a butterfly valve is a potential hiding place with this logic and you dont see most people disassembling butterfly valves between each use do you?

 

[czmkid]

While I do not own a spike unitank I do own 3 Ss unitanks. I was not happy with one of the two tanks I got with the first shipment. The finish on the outside of the tank was not up to par and there were several minor defects on the inside of the tank as well as inside of the tc ports that were welded to the tanks. I voiced these concerns to Ss and was shipped a new tank no questions asked....Since then I have ordered another tank and will be ordering a 4th soon.

All three tanks had machine oil on them especially in the ports. Tsp had no issues taking these oils off after a soak and cip use. This caused the bucket with the solution to have a black ring on it. After the tsp cip, I used pbw with 130 degree water as well as a rinse. There was no black in the white bucket with my cip pump in it. The last thing I did was to fill the tanks with starsans and let them sit.

One year later and many batches through the tanks I have not seen the black ring the OP describes. Maybe I just got lucky? Oh and knock on wood no infections from any of the three tanks, but I break down, clean, and sanitize all tc parts as well as a cip on the tank right after kegging. The bit I worry about the most is the stone....it gets boiled every time before wort goes in the tank as well as the other procedures.

 

[ArmyDoc87]

Thanks everyone for your input. It has been helpful. BLUF..if the spike owners are telling me they don't have to spend hours hand cleaning their tanks before the first use and only use a PBW wash with no "black lines' after...that's enough for me.

I agree the current level of oils are not causing any flavor issues, but it gets back to what I am paying for. I am paying a premium and therefore expect a top notch product that's basically ready to go. I think its poor service on SS brewtech not have these tanks pre washed and bascially ready to use like the spike tanks for the same price. To be fair to ss, they did disclose on their online manual, which I read before purchase, that pre cleaning was required for oils. I was expecting a quick clean/scrub...but it was not quick and it required a serious scrub. I stopped scrubbing when black residue stopped showing up on white paper towels. Spending 3-4 hours just cleaning a tank before use was quite annoying....I barely have time to brew as it is. It may have just been my tank had excessive oils based on what I have read. Hopefully they will address this issue in the future.

 

[Blazinlow86]

I have a full clasp ring top on my 12.5 gallon conical that looks to be designed the same way but im not just how the silicone seal works on the spike model. on mine the seal just stays on the edge perimeter of the lid and its as simple as lifting it on or off and clasping or unclasping..

My spike works the same. It has a rubber gasket that presses into a groove in the lid holding it tightly in place. I've read a few people saying there's was possible incorrectly manufactured and fits loosely. Cheers

 

[specialkayme]

Think about something here.. While we scrutinize these conicals and brite tanks with hypotheticals here there are micro and nano breweries all over the country that use plastic drums and conicals or repurposed dairy tanks as fermenters and a large majority do not disassemble all the weldless fittings or joints between brews and never have an issue..

You raise some pretty good points.

Out of curiosity, having never worked at a brewery myself I don't know how many operate, but don't many do sanitation of their tanks between batches with pressure and steam? It seems to me that pressurized heat would be able to get into alot more cracks than starsan would, which I assumed differentiated the home brewer from the brewery. But I've been wrong before.

I wasn't aware there were many micros or nanos using plastic drums as fermenters. Interesting.

 

[tll77]

Also fwiw Spike's oxygen/carb stone connects to the racking port. It also works excellent.

@Blazinlow86, would you mind giving your review/opinion on the spike stone setup itself?

I went a similar route but pieced it together myself. My concern was that if the sintered stone itself were ever damaged or compromised, could just the stone be replaced. I reached out to spike with this question and was told that the stone is welded in. Therefore, in the event it needs to be replaced I would need the entire unit.

This is my solution.

The stone can be replaced if ever necessary. Also, if I wanna see the action I can put the cap on a sight glass rather than the spool and attach it in the same manner.

 

[Blazinlow86]

I've found the stone works great. As they say in the description it will fully carb in 24 hours to exactly the rate you desire and I also use it to areate with pure 02 prior to piching yeast. You have a point about the stone not being replaceable but it's pretty well protected so it would be difficult to damage. Cheers

 

[iancl]

I have a full clasp ring top on my 12.5 gallon conical that looks to be designed the same way but im not just how the silicone seal works on the spike model. on mine the seal just stays on the edge perimeter of the lid and its as simple as lifting it on or off and clasping or unclasping..

My spike works the same. It has a rubber gasket that presses into a groove in the lid holding it tightly in place. I've read a few people saying there's was possible incorrectly manufactured and fits loosely. Cheers

The seal on the spike lid stays put if installed correctly with the wide side in to the lid. Had the same frustration of the gasket falling out when I first got mine, and then I did the Man thing and read the directions. Works fine ever since.

 

[iancl]

Question on the carb stone, or more accurately, question on how to handle the 10 gallons of carbonated beer:
How do you transfer it in to a keg without a considerable head of foam in the keg, and a keg that's only 3/4-7/8 full when you are done. (and beer left in the fermenter). I don't have a spunding valve, which if required, could be marketed with the kit. I just picked up the carb stone, and I have only carbed in the CF10 with the stone once, but looking for advice from those who use it regularly. Thanks.
BTW, and for what it's worth, my CF 10 has been performing great under continuous use for 2 years, 40+ batches.

 

[Vale71]

Question on the carb stone, or more accurately, question on how to handle the 10 gallons of carbonated beer:
How do you transfer it in to a keg without a considerable head of foam in the keg, and a keg that's only 3/4-7/8 full when you are done. (and beer left in the fermenter). I don't have a spunding valve, which if required, could be marketed with the kit. I just picked up the carb stone, and I have only carbed in the CF10 with the stone once, but looking for advice from those who use it regularly. Thanks.
BTW, and for what it's worth, my CF 10 has been performing great under continuous use for 2 years, 40+ batches.

1 - get the beer as cold as you can
2 - make sure pressure is always slightly higher than your beer's equilibrium pressure at the current temperature, especially in the receiving vessel
3 - keep the line as short as possible to minimize warming of the beer during transfer
4 - get a spunding valve. A cheap one will suffice. You can't really set the speed of the transfer without a spunding valve and just pulling the ring on the PRV will drop the pressure to dangerously low levels inevitably causing foaming in the keg.

 

[sfrisby]

Question on the carb stone, or more accurately, question on how to handle the 10 gallons of carbonated beer:
How do you transfer it in to a keg without a considerable head of foam in the keg, and a keg that's only 3/4-7/8 full when you are done. (and beer left in the fermenter). I don't have a spunding valve, which if required, could be marketed with the kit. I just picked up the carb stone, and I have only carbed in the CF10 with the stone once, but looking for advice from those who use it regularly. Thanks.
BTW, and for what it's worth, my CF 10 has been performing great under continuous use for 2 years, 40+ batches.

I saved this screen shot for this situation...

 

[augiedoggy]

I saved this screen shot for this situation...View attachment 663045

This is exactly what we do when kegging from our brites at the brewpub. For cornies they sell cheap spunding valves attached to ball and pinlock connectors to get the keg pressure right as well I think I paid about $20 on aliexpress for one.

 

[augiedoggy]

I currently have a 14 gal ss unitank which overall has been a wonderful upgrade for me. My biggest complaint with the tank is the fact that I paid all that money for a tank that took hours to hand scrub with TSP to get the manufacturing oils "off".

I still get a bit of a black line at the top of my krausen line which means I haven't gotten all the oils off and I have scrubbed it twice....

I am looking at another new unitank in the new year and I want to know:

1) does the spike unitank require as much pre-use cleaning?

2) are current spike users getting the black line of oils at the top of the yeast line on the tank?

response to an old resurrected thread but
this is likely from the brushed stainless finish having all the fine scratches that catch and hold said oils vs polished finish of most other Chinese fermenters. I dealt with similiar grief from my bayou classic kettles.