Question for Minnesota extract brewers...

[Hoochin'Fool]

My hometown (Hastings, MN) has outrageously hard tap water (how hard, you ask? Plumbers are in our neighborhood all the damned time, fixing pinhole leaks in all the copper piping).

Anyhow, I'm wondering if I should make my first extract brew with:
a) Cub Spring Water (local grocery store, widely available in Twin Cities area)
b) RO water (also available at my nearby Cub, oddly enough)
c) Tap water (from the water-softened sink)
d) A mix of hard tap-water and any of the above?

Would I say our tap-water tastes good? Well, it's not gross, but I've certainly had better, and I'd rather not risk my first batch on overly mineralized tap water.

If it matters, I plan to stick to extract + steeping grain recipes, and mostly ambers/porters...

 

[RM-MN]

Easiest is to use the RO water. The extract was made with water that has the minerals for the conversion of the starches to sugars. All you need is to rehydrate the extract. If in the future you decide to go to all grain, the easiest would be the spring water. The best would be to add the proper mix and quantities of minerals to RO water so you can match the specific water used for a particular popular beer.

 

[DBhomebrew]

I'm guessing that you're using Breiss extract. If the spring water has any sodium, don't use it. Breiss is rather light on minerals except for sodium. They use softened municipal water. Your softened tap is likely the same, high in sodium.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I should make my first extract brew with

water that has a known low mineral content. RO water works. Distilled water works (but can be more expensive). Many brands of spring water can work as well.

Hastings, MN

Take a look at RiteBrew with the SpeeDee delivery option.

If it matters, I plan to stick to extract + steeping grain recipes, and mostly ambers/porters...

Take a look at https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/i-brewed-a-favorite-recipe-today.687986/

I'm guessing that you're using Breiss extract. If the spring water has any sodium, don't use it. Breiss is rather light on minerals except for sodium. They use softened municipal water. Your softened tap is likely the same, high in sodium.

As confirmation, row 143 on the "Instructions" tab of the Bru'n Water 1.25 spreadsheet talks about high sodium content.

This isn't a "flaw" in the ingredient - it just results in different recipes (flavor salt adjustments) when I use Muntons DME instead of Briess DME.

 

[Steveruch]

I use distilled water when I extract brew.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Thanks all for your replies -- RO (or distilled) for extract beers goes on the list. Wish I had heard of RiteBrew before now, their pricing looks way better than NB's!

 

[Steveruch]

Thanks all for your replies -- RO (or distilled) for extract beers goes on the list. Wish I had heard of RiteBrew before now, their pricing looks way better than NB's!

Their dme is only $10.39 for three pounds. It doesn't take too many of those for the savings to cover the cost of shipping.

 

[Dancy]

FWIW, I live in suburban Mpls and go to Cub Foods — use to purchase their RO but then was not sure how often they change the filter in their RO machine - someone on HBT said that’s important — so now I buy their distilled water. I believe you can buy a cheap,TDS meter on Amazon to test the RO water there, another piece of advice fromHBT.

 

[Immocles]

I’m at the other end of the spectrum and just roll with my hard MN water(before it hits the softener). In my area, a water heater lasts about 5 years before it’s completely baked. I treat my all grain batches, but not my extract. My palette might be uncouth, but I haven’t noticed anything detrimental or all that different between the two processes.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

I noticed that "Hastings, MN" has an entry in the Brewer's Friend water profiles from Ward Labs... Dunno how recent that was, but assuming it's still pretty close to to that, my tap water should be surprisingly close to "London", and allegedly good for porters and dark ales:

Water analysis for:

Location	Ca+2	Mg+2	Na+	Cl-	SO4-2	HCO3	pH
Hastings, MN	68	27	6	14	45	259	7.7
London, UK	100	5	35	60	50	265	n/a

I've read that Briess extracts are made with regular old softened tap water, so that should mean the Na+ and Cl- counts would be increased, and the rest of the mineral contributions should be fairly close to zero. So my question is this: As long as I'm removing chloramines from my unsoftened tap-water, I should be fine brewing extract-based porters and stouts, correct? (and can quit spending money on RO water jugs)

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

@Hoochin'Hank : this link has some additional numbers that may be helpful : Briess malt extract water analyses Also, How to Brew, (4e, p 131) defines 'low mineral' water as anything below 50 ppm for each item.

I've read that Briess extracts are made with regular old softened tap water, so that should mean the Na+ and Cl- counts would be increased, and the rest of the mineral contributions should be fairly close to zero. So my question is this: As long as I'm removing chloramines from my unsoftened tap-water, I should be fine brewing extract-based porters and stouts, correct? (and can quit spending money on RO water jugs)

The numbers seem to support your idea.

Brewing with blended water (RO and treated tap water at a 1:1 (or 1:2) ratio) would be another option.

eta: If you think alkalinity may be a problem, check out the sparging acidification section of Bru'n Water.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Reply #3 in this topic
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/very-hard-water-and-ipa.703874/has a link to a guide on water treatment:
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/...ore-advanced-water-treatment-in-post-1.64822/The guide does mention using aquarium water testing kits to measure some attributes of source water just before brew day.

The guide is written for all-grain brewing, but the alkalinity / sparge water sections may be helpful for using tap water with DME/LME batches.

 

[tracer bullet]

Ward's analysis aren't very expensive. you could find out what you have. Alternately of course get RO from Cub and then just add minerals to your liking. The calculators work pretty well overall for that, though it'll take time to figure out your pH values.

Funny that the water is so hard where you are, here in the cities it's super soft, I'm guessing it's just filtered rain water.

 

[JoeChristman69]

My hometown (Hastings, MN) has outrageously hard tap water (how hard, you ask? Plumbers are in our neighborhood all the damned time, fixing pinhole leaks in all the copper piping).

Anyhow, I'm wondering if I should make my first extract brew with:
a) Cub Spring Water (local grocery store, widely available in Twin Cities area)
b) RO water (also available at my nearby Cub, oddly enough)
c) Tap water (from the water-softened sink)
d) A mix of hard tap-water and any of the above?

Would I say our tap-water tastes good? Well, it's not gross, but I've certainly had better, and I'd rather not risk my first batch on overly mineralized tap water.

If it matters, I plan to stick to extract + steeping grain recipes, and mostly ambers/porters...

I always use bottled water from a good quality water store, I add a little spring water to add more minerals and the beer always comes out great. I do 5 gallon batches and the majority of my water is water from the water store.
5 gallon osmosis..
1 gallon spring water.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Does anyone in Minneapolis/St Paul area know if either Northern Brewer or the Midwest Supplies retail stores offer a discount for in-store pickup of a 50 lb bag of grain (unmilled)?

 

[z-bob]

Does anyone in Minneapolis/St Paul area know if either Northern Brewer or the Midwest Supplies retail stores offer a discount for in-store pickup of a 50 lb bag of grain (unmilled)?

I don't recall them ever offering a discount, you just don't pay shipping. But I haven't compared their in-store prices with online prices. Last time I needed grain I bought it from ritebrew.com, and with speedee shipping it was cheaper than buying it in-person anywhere else. It was even a little cheaper than having a local brewery add a sack onto their wholesale order.

 

[tracer bullet]

I don't recall them ever offering a discount, you just don't pay shipping. But I haven't compared their in-store prices with online prices. Last time I needed grain I bought it from ritebrew.com, and with speedee shipping it was cheaper than buying it in-person anywhere else. It was even a little cheaper than having a local brewery add a sack onto their wholesale order.

You might try calling them, but then again their number might not be listed any more. I know that the in-store prices are rarely the same as online, and so it might just be worth asking. If you are able to do so before you head in.

Wish I read this a little earlier, I picked up some ingredients there this afternoon.