Question for accomplished home brewers.

[dstranger99]

Please list some brewery names.

I know the fellow that runs Fermentation Trap near where you work just started a tasting room or something?

He's got an entire bar set up now, at least 7 or 8 of his beers to choose from on tap, and you can even buy a growler to go.....

 

[Homercidal]

For me, it's not about financial limitations. I would NOT brew to sell, no matter what.

I just love talking about brewing, helping others with recipes, brewing for myself and friends, and getting geeky with friends who also brew. It's strictly a hobby for me, and always will be. I have a passion for brewing, but I never want to feel like I "have" to brew. Of course, I'm retired from my job but still work filling in for vacations. And I love that, too- because I no longer "have to" work.

Doing anything because you must instead of because you want to takes all of the fun out of it!

This kind of thing. I don't consider myself one of those brewers you mentioned, but if I had to consider being a pro brewer, I would not.

It does stroke the ego a bit when you take two of your latest beers down to the girl at the video store and she calls back later saying the afternoon girl liked it so much she wants to buy a 6-pack *under the table*. And this afternoon shift girl doesn't even drink beer.

I just have no interest in selling. Likewise, no interest in producing for a brewery, either my own, or someone else.

I just like making beer, drinking beer, and making beer that I am proud to share with others.

FWIW I have seen more than a couple of very successful breweries where the person who started brewing there either stopped brewing, or were let go or quit. The brewer positions almost seem like some kind of revolving door. Only a couple that I know of have brewers that seem to like what they do and the people they work for/with. It doesn't take long for the "industry" aspect to show itself.

 

[bulldogbrewhaus]

Interesting stuff in this thread. I studied exercise science and physiology in college. Went to work at a gym and made it less than 6 months before I quit and now I work in manufacturing. There is certainly something to be said for mixing passion with business, in both a positive and negative light. I recently met a guy who told me he knows some folks who have a brewing co-op. They all chipped in and bought a big conical. Every so often they get together brew a big batch and then all share the beer. I wonder if there will be an increase in this type of thing as small breweries and brewpubs start to lose popularity (if that happens, I personally dont think it will).

 

[Rev2010]

While I fully respect people's feelings about how turning a beloved hobby into a job can lead to stress and taking away the fun I still don't quite get the negativity associated with it. So are all pro brewers and brewery owners non-brewers but just people doing an average day to day job? Of course not. Did Jim Koch start Sam Adams because he wanted to ruin his love of brewing? Of course not! Do musicians become pro because they deep down inside don't care about their music and making a job of it? Again, of course not.

I dunno, I see where y'all are coming from but I think doing something you love still beats most menial jobs working out of a cubicle. I think the comparison is if I worked in a brewery just moving around sacks of grain, I'd hate it! I'm an IT Technician for a living and have been doing this now for 13 years (between 2 law firms). I got into IT because since I was a kid I loved computers and was always good at tech. I loved working at my last firm but a bad merger saw me the need to switch firms and I got out (it's now gone under just recently so I certainly made the right choice). Anyhow, I hate the new firm and am still sitting in a cubicle. IMO taking one of my loved hobbies (making music and beer) and generating enough income to live off of still beats the hell out of my current employment.

Don't get me wrong, I get the stresses involved, the fluctuating income, and all the other problems associated with running a business, I know it's not at all easy by any stretch. Of course if you love your job then I can see why making a hobby a business would make zero sense


Rev.

 

[Subsailor]

While I fully respect people's feelings about how turning a beloved hobby into a job can lead to stress and taking away the fun I still don't quite get the negativity associated with it. So are all pro brewers and brewery owners non-brewers but just people doing an average day to day job? Of course not. Did Jim Koch start Sam Adams because he wanted to ruin his love of brewing? Of course not! Do musicians become pro because they deep down inside don't care about their music and making a job of it? Again, of course not.

I dunno, I see where y'all are coming from but I think doing something you love still beats most menial jobs working out of a cubicle. I think the comparison is if I worked in a brewery just moving around sacks of grain, I'd hate it! I'm an IT Technician for a living and have been doing this now for 13 years (between 2 law firms). I got into IT because since I was a kid I loved computers and was always good at tech. I loved my last firm but a merger saw me the need to switch firms and I got out (it's now gone under just recently so I certainly made the right choice). Anyhow, I hate the new firm and am still sitting in a cubicle. IMO taking one of my loved hobbies (making music and beer) and generating enough income to live off of still beats the hell out of my current employment.

Don't get me wrong, I get the stresses involved, the fluctuating income, and all the other problems associated with running a business, I know it's not at all easy by any stretch. Of course if you love your job then I can see why making a hobby a business would make zero sense


Rev.

I see your point. I too love my job, also in IT but I found that when I started tying flies professionally quite a few years back, I lost interest in the hobby. I didn't care for the deadline, the quotas or even the worst, I'm out fishing the Saco River in Maine and a customer sees me and wants to know "why am I not finishing his order?" Being the semi-intelligent ape that I am, I answered I was testing a new pattern. But it was very shortly after that, that I decided never again would I turn a hobby into my profession.
As I said earlier in this, I am also in IT and I can hoestly tell you I have no desire to do IT at home even though I love my job, actually, I hardly ever use a computer at home.

 

[tre9er]

The reason most of us love it now is because we're our own boss, totally. There's absolutely no reason to brew a batch unless we WANT to. There's no "keeping the lights on", there's no "making sure employees have money for Christmas", there's no "paying the mortgage" involved whatsoever in our hobby of brewing. In other words, there's very little actual pressure. Sure, we pressure ourselves to get a beer done for a competition or a wedding, or to restock the pipeline...but these aren't life-and-death situations, so if we screw them up, oh well.

When it becomes your life, your kids' college fund, your retirement, and the lives of your employees (not to mention the demands of customers)...you're technically not doing it for "fun" anymore...you're doing it for the aforementioned reasons.

 

[ghosthef]

When I spoke earlier about passion...and going from stress relief to stress...what I failed to state was that having a passion for it can be a good thing! Having been a small business owner I can say that it is a wonderful experience and you truly do have control of your future! If brewing beer and going big is what you feel like doing then throw caution to the wind and make it happen!

 

[Rev2010]

I am also in IT and I can hoestly tell you I have no desire to do IT at home even though I love my job, actually, I hardly ever use a computer at home.

Ha, tell me about it! I know exactly what you mean. Matter of fact I fixed one problem that had been bothering me repeatedly - removing malware or viruses from family member's PC's. I got so sick of it I installed Ubuntu as a dual boot for everyone, even partners in my firms when they became annoying repeat "infectees". I told everyone to use Linux for everything, absolutely everything and only go into Windows for something you find you might not be able to do in Linux, like if they wanted to sync their iPod to iTunes or something. Ya know what? It worked! Since then I am no longer being asked to troubleshoot any of their machines and they all have told me how much they love Linux.

I know, of topic but whatever. I see what you're saying though.


Rev.

 

[Onihige]

The business part scares me ****less, but the thought of dozens... hundreds... thousands...tens of thousands... enjoying my beer is a thought I just can't give up. But that's just ego. It won't be just my beer; it will be my employees, investors, clients and customers beer too.

I am far too selfish to compromise. Unless everyone liked what I do, I'd never make it in the business.

In the end, this is my creative outlet.

If I had the means and the freedom to do it, then I would do it - no questions asked. But that's not how it works.

 

[mcspanner]

While I fully respect people's feelings about how turning a beloved hobby into a job can lead to stress and taking away the fun I still don't quite get the negativity associated with it. So are all pro brewers and brewery owners non-brewers but just people doing an average day to day job? Of course not. Did Jim Koch start Sam Adams because he wanted to ruin his love of brewing? Of course not! Do musicians become pro because they deep down inside don't care about their music and making a job of it? Again, of course not.

I dunno, I see where y'all are coming from but I think doing something you love still beats most menial jobs working out of a cubicle. I think the comparison is if I worked in a brewery just moving around sacks of grain, I'd hate it! I'm an IT Technician for a living and have been doing this now for 13 years (between 2 law firms). I got into IT because since I was a kid I loved computers and was always good at tech. I loved working at my last firm but a bad merger saw me the need to switch firms and I got out (it's now gone under just recently so I certainly made the right choice). Anyhow, I hate the new firm and am still sitting in a cubicle. IMO taking one of my loved hobbies (making music and beer) and generating enough income to live off of still beats the hell out of my current employment.

Don't get me wrong, I get the stresses involved, the fluctuating income, and all the other problems associated with running a business, I know it's not at all easy by any stretch. Of course if you love your job then I can see why making a hobby a business would make zero sense

Rev.

I think we're looking at the same coin from different sides and, just for good measure and to thoroughly mix a metaphor the grass is always greener on the other side of that err.... coin.

I get how lucky I am to be able to make money doing something that I have always loved, when I'm shooting and the creative juices are flowing I can think of very, very few people alive or dead I'd swap places with. Problem is, as I mentioned, nowadays that great bit is such a tiny proportion of what I have to do as a business owner that it gets harder and harder to keep focusing on that high when I'm dealing with all the crud that comes from the business development and management that just gets in the way of doing what I really love.

Add into that the toughest recession in living memory in the UK and most of my clients start cutting their marketing spend ( tends to be the pot they pay the photographer out of) and you start to see how the stresses can take the joy out of trying to make a living out of something I'm still incredibly passionate about.

I don't mind admitting that if it hadn't been for SWMBOs day job we'd have been fubarred a long while ago ( I actually started brewing to cut our expenditure, obviously cutting out beer was NEVER an option!) so having a hobby that isn't connected with all the stresses has a lot going for it. I know a couple of guys that own breweries and to be honest they tend to employ a very passionate head brewer whilst they manage a business.

If I was ever to want to take brewing to a professional level I would find a business partner who loves that side of things and knows nothing about brewing.

 

[Bobby_M]

I don't own or run a brewery, but I did turn my obsession with the hobby into a business. Ask me how much time I have to brew now. I'd imagine starting a brewpub is similar. You probably spend more time breaking up fights in the kitchen and snaking toilets.

 

[LeBreton]

While I definitely see the point of keeping your hobbies and work separate, I think thread has missed that 'going pro' doesn't necessarily mean owning or running a business. There's a ton of opportunity to follow your passion without the risk of starting a company from the ground up. It's called employment, and most of us do it 9-5 most days already. I make a living making hard cider full time for a regional company, I also make cider (and beer & wine) at home and spend much of my free time talking about cider here on HBT. All the benefits, much less risk, and little paperwork for this guy. With so many breweries out there anyone committed enough can follow their dream.

Not saying it's the right choice for everyone, but if you want to brew for a living, it doesn't have to cost you 100K right up front.

 

[Phunhog]

While I definitely see the point of keeping your hobbies and work separate, I think thread has missed that 'going pro' doesn't necessarily mean owning or running a business. There's a ton of opportunity to follow your passion without the risk of starting a company from the ground up. It's called employment, and most of us do it 9-5 most days already. I make a living making hard cider full time for a regional company, I also make cider (and beer & wine) at home and spend much of my free time talking about cider here on HBT. All the benefits, much less risk, and little paperwork for this guy. With so many breweries out there anyone committed enough can follow their dream.

Not saying it's the right choice for everyone, but if you want to brew for a living, it doesn't have to cost you 100K right up front.

That is a great point..personally for me brewing is all about well ME It is a way for me to express my creativity and skills as a brewer. I don't know if I would want to brew what someone else wants me to brew...at least not all the time. I like to blur the lines between professional and amateur brewing as much as possible. Non-Commercial Nanobrewery? Semi-Pro Brewer? Professional Amateur Brewer? I am constantly comparing it to a local musician...you know the guys who play music for FUN and have a full time regular job. They aren't looking to be professional, full time musicians....but they also don't want to sit in their garage and only play for themselves. I think it is a great middle ground.

 

[bob1852]

Brewing good beer would be the easiest part of the business. I have no desire to do the other aspects of a brewing business.

Most breweries hire beer brewers with brewing degrees or previous commercial scale brewing experience, neither of which I have, and I don't want to start at the bottom.

I brew for fun as it mimics many of my other interests: cooking, recipe development, chemistry, math, gardening, etc.

I am interested in collaborating with small breweries in the area on recipe development; that's about as close to I ever see myself as "going pro."

By the way, I don't think I belong in the list of folks you mentioned, but thanks!

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

I like the mad scientist aspect of brewing at home. No hobby is the same when you convert it to a job. You have to start thinking about designing beers for profit rather than fun. There is a lot of cleaning...a lot. There's bottling, there's the business side, etc. You don't just get to brew a beer, decide to throw some **** in it at the last minute or do a last minute addition of something in the bottling bucket.

Plus, brewing does not create substantial revenue unless you can build out a brewery fast and profitably. I owe too much in law school debt to make $30,000/yr with little opportunity for upside.

I have some friends in Colorado working towards opening a brewery. If their plans come together, I'll probably brew with them when I visit but I still wouldn't want to do it professionally. Maybe I would help them get a sour program going, but that would be the extent of my interest and that's mostly just because I don't have room to age all the sour beers I would like to.

 

[whitehause]

I don't think I would go pro brewing even if I had the chance. To much risk financially and waaaay to much competition. Everyone thinks their beer is great but lets face it, like an earlier post said, the market is pretty saturated.

I have however been thinking about opening a HBS. While it is still a financial risk, and the hours are long, I like the idea of furthering the hobby and helping new brewers get started. The store could be rented, and other than the basic legalities (LLC, insurance, tax ID,ect) the start up capital is not out of hand. Now I'm not talking about walls full of Blichmann pots and three tier set ups, but the basics needed for any extract and AG set up. Hold brewing classes, tastings/competitions, and just have fun with the hobby.
I know the owners at my closest HBS ( 30 miles ) never seem to be frowning

 

[tre9er]

I have however been thinking about opening a HBS. While it is still a financial risk, and the hours are long, I like the idea of furthering the hobby and helping new brewers get started. The store could be rented, and other than the basic legalities (LLC, insurance, tax ID,ect) the start up capital is not out of hand. Now I'm not talking about walls full of Blichmann pots and three tier set ups, but the basics needed for any extract and AG set up. Hold brewing classes, tastings/competitions, and just have fun with the hobby.
I know the owners at my closest HBS ( 30 miles ) never seem to be frowning

I've thought of this but we already have one in our town and everyone is very loyal to him. He's a very nice guy and he likely doesn't make much money with a HBS in Lincoln, NE...but sometimes I'd like to offer grain in bulk to people as his prices are not discounted for full sacks ($60/50lbs). I wouldn't compete with him really in that way because I know dozens of guys are doing group-buys and getting in on grandfathered commercial account orders with Country Malt...This would just be more convenient than those things.

 

[Caveman3141]

Brewing good beer would be the easiest part of the business. I have no desire to do the other aspects of a brewing business.

Aye, this is what strikes me. If I get good enough at brewing I'd maybe consider going into business with my brothers and operating a little local brew pub or something like that.

But as for starting up a large commercial brewery? There's already so many great craft breweries making great beer that simply having a good product isn't enough. And I'm just not interested enough in all the other details to get into it and doubt I'll ever have the capital to hire the people who are.

 

[sweetcell]

If I was ever to want to take brewing to a professional level I would find a business partner who loves that side of things and knows nothing about brewing.

Brewing good beer would be the easiest part of the business. I have no desire to do the other aspects of a brewing business.

getting someone else to do the business/admin side of things should be every wannabe-brewery-owner's dream. go to a business school, find someone in the entrepreneurship program/concentration, and get them to go in with you.

AZ_IPA touched on another important point:

Most breweries hire beer brewers with brewing degrees or previous commercial scale brewing experience, neither of which I have, and I don't want to start at the bottom.

and there is a reason for that: brewing on a commercial scale is a different beast that homebrewing. our hobby is a great start, but it does require a different skill set to brew on the barrel level.