Question about Wyeast Roselare

[Totes]

Well... I'll start tasting after 7-9 months. Either way, everyone I know who makes sours says that pitching onto a cake, even (especially!) after 12-18 months, produces beers with much more sour character and complexity, in less time. I plan to keep using the same cakes until they suck.

Order literally just placed for 2 packs Roselaere and 1 vial WLP655 Belgian Sour. I'm stoked... for next year.

Your theory and other posters has me thinking. Especially the "in less time" part. If i used the same recipe on the my cake in 6 months, a younger, unique beer could be perfect for blending with the old. Duchess de bourgogne blending style.

Someone said "looking forward to the differences"...another good thought.

I'm still letting the sour I have going ride on trub for 18, but soon I'm going to brew another, and now plan on experimenting with that cake.

Good stuff.

 

[Brulosopher]

Well it looks like my plans to brew the sours this weekend has changed... MoreBeer hasn't even shipped my order yet. Ehh, I'll throw something else together and get to the sours in a couple weeks.

 

[Wadian]

Your Oud Bruin recipe looks good, with interesting specialty malts. The base malts are almost identical to mine. Are your hops aged? I stumbled across a giant bag of 2 yr old hops that I used for this brew, and the resultant lack of bitter bite allows all the funk to shine, IMO. That is the only "critique" I'd make. I don't know enough about Flanders Red to comment.

One additional note on my Ous Bruin: twice my brewing buddies and I got stoked on a sour we were enjoying and dumped the dregs into the carboy (5g). One was Trois Dames Oud Bruin and once was a BFM Douze. I live in Switzerland where both are brewed. I wonder if they added much, but there was a strong acidity to the beer that surprised me a bit from the Roeselare. It could have come from those dregs.

 

[Brewitt]

This thread is of interest to me. I have my first sour going that is a shot in the dark based upon a Belgian Dark Strong Ale wort, basically an attempt at a Westvleteren clone, not that it turned out the way I wanted it, nice flavor but way too sweet for my taste. Think pilsner, special B, munich, aromatic, biscuit, and chocolate malt along with some belgian candy syrup. That said, I diluted that wort by half, pitched WLP530 and the dregs of a couple of Oud Krieks that had Saccharomyces, Brettanomyces, Pedio and Lactobacillus in them. I let the go a couple months and added a 6 lbs of lightly crushed grapes. Now it is at 7 months, looking hideous and tasting great. It definitely went through a rough period flavor wise, lots of what I think were fusel alcohols.

See my thread here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/first-sour-bit-belgian-dark-strong-ale-345559/

I have been digging around trying to figure out when people think their sours are done. I also am interested, based upon this thread, what one does with all the semi-hideous looking spent fruit when trying to save the yeast cake? I'm thinking it might be hard to separate out. Mine is just two gallons and has several inches of grapes floating on the surface covered in a combination of pellicle and what I would think is mold. Funky!
I'll be watching the thread but any input is welcome.

 

[Brulosopher]

Your Oud Bruin recipe looks good, with interesting specialty malts. The base malts are almost identical to mine. Are your hops aged? I stumbled across a giant bag of 2 yr old hops that I used for this brew, and the resultant lack of bitter bite allows all the funk to shine, IMO. That is the only "critique" I'd make. I don't know enough about Flanders Red to comment.

One additional note on my Ous Bruin: twice my brewing buddies and I got stoked on a sour we were enjoying and dumped the dregs into the carboy (5g). One was Trois Dames Oud Bruin and once was a BFM Douze. I live in Switzerland where both are brewed. I wonder if they added much, but there was a strong acidity to the beer that surprised me a bit from the Roeselare. It could have come from those dregs.

I chose the specialty malts simply because I like to add my own flare to more traditional recipes I've already tasted. I do actually have some old hops that, unfortunately, failed to fully seal in the FoodSaver last time I used them... only thing is they are Chinook, which I'm not all the keen on for bittering Belgians. Thoughts? I won't be pitching any dregs, as I am very interested in how just the Roeselare and WLP655 work alone.

 

[Brulosopher]

I have been digging around trying to figure out when people think their sours are done. I also am interested, based upon this thread, what one does with all the semi-hideous looking spent fruit when trying to save the yeast cake? I'm thinking it might be hard to separate out. Mine is just two gallons and has several inches of grapes floating on the surface covered in a combination of pellicle and what I would think is mold. Funky!
I'll be watching the thread but any input is welcome.

I have a friend who has used Roeselare multiple times. His comment to me, while sipping a 12 month old Flanders Red of his last weekend, was that the first beer made with that blend takes 9-12 months to develop good sour character; however, subsequent beers racked onto that yeast cake tend to sour up nicely within 2-6 months depending on OG. Another buddy told me that for beers he plans to put on fruit, he'll place the fruit in a secondary carboy once the beer is basically finished, then rack the beer off the "clean" yeast/bug cake onto the fruit. At this point, the cake is then re-used. I'm not sure how others do it, but this is how I plan to start. Basically, no fruit is added until the beer is essentially ready to bottle, then the beer sits on the fruit for 2-4 weeks is all.

Cheers!

 

[Brewitt]

I believe mine had developed sourness early due to the amount of pedio and lacto in the pitch. However, the brett character has only been developing in the last couple months. I wish I had made 5 gallons rather than two but I will try to start a couple more soon. I need some more carboys. The fruit definitely added something but I'm not sure how much it is contributing now.

 

[Brulosopher]

Well, well... MB shipped my sh!t yesterday and it'll be here today. Since I've got these going for two 5.5 gal batches tomorrow...

...my plan for this weekend, prior to leaving on a trip to NY, may include throwing a couple 2.5 gal batches together. Hmmmmmm.....

 

[Brulosopher]

Ahhhhhh, yes

 

[Brewitt]

Sampled my sour once again. This time I measured the SG. 1.006. I don't know whether that is a moving number since last time I measured it was before the grape addition. It was 1.002 but I have no idea how many points the grapes initially added. But at least now I have a baseline.

I also carbonated my gravity sample using a soda stream and took a taste. The sourness is great! The carbonation seems to bring out the Brett character a little more strongly. Overall, I think this is going to be a winner. However, I will lose a lot to the mixture of heavy pellicle and floating grapes. I'm guessing I will get a gallon out of this in the end. The good thing is it is powerful enough to blend or to drink in four ounce glasses. Probably going to shoot for about 3 volumes of carbonation but that won't happen for a number of months.

 

[Brulosopher]

Sampled my sour once again. This time I measured the SG. 1.006. I don't know whether that is a moving number since last time I measured it was before the grape addition. It was 1.002 but I have no idea how many points the grapes initially added. But at least now I have a baseline.

I also carbonated my gravity sample using a soda stream and took a taste. The sourness is great! The carbonation seems to bring out the Brett character a little more strongly. Overall, I think this is going to be a winner. However, I will lose a lot to the mixture of heavy pellicle and floating grapes. I'm guessing I will get a gallon out of this in the end. The good thing is it is powerful enough to blend or to drink in four ounce glasses. Probably going to shoot for about 3 volumes of carbonation but that won't happen for a number of months.

You're exciting me

 

[Brewitt]

Yeah, patience is not my strongpoint. I might have consumed this as gravity samples before it goes into bottles Trying to restrict myself to no more than every couple months.

 

[jah777]

Just tasted an 8 month old Oud Bruin that's been on a single smack pack of Roselare in the primary, and it was tart, funky, beautiful. No reason to secondary, IMO. Good luck!

I'm also going to re pitch onto the same cake. Always learning!

Nice. I just brewed an Oude Bruin a couple of weeks ago and pitched one pack of Roselare. I intend to keep it in primary until it reaches the desired level of sourness, whether that is at 3 months or 18 months.

 

[Hawkeye11]

Nice. I just brewed an Oude Bruin a couple of weeks ago and pitched one pack of Roselare. I intend to keep it in primary until it reaches the desired level of sourness, whether that is at 3 months or 18 months.

I just brewed the AG Nothernnbrewer Oude Bruin recipe and pitched Roaelare directly from a smack pack. Trying to keep the temp around 70. My plan is around 2 months in the primary. Advice seems to vary on when to secondary. ai am not sure how to judge sourness level. I have had several Berliner Weisse varieties in Berlin, but never a Oude Bruin. Can anyone compare the sourness levels of the two?