Question about thin mash

[kgranger]

I am reading up on a Belgian Blond recipe I found somewhere online, and noticed they suggested a very thin mash, about 2.1 qt/ lb, as well as temperature steps. I cannot direct heat my tun, so I need to use infusions. After plugging into Brewer's Friend calculator, I am looking at about 7.5 gal of first runnings into the kettle, which is nearly my estimated pre-boil volume. Should I be concerned with only using this first running, as sparge is not necessary to add additional water to the pre-boil vol? From my understanding, first runnings are of higher quality and sugar content, and avoiding sparge can help reduce drawing any tannins from the grain husk. I just wanted confirmation! Thanks!

 

[JimRausch]

You can definitely do a no-sparge mash. I'm not familiar with how Brewer's Friend works, but if it has a 'no-sparge' option in the equipment area, plug that in. It may tell you to add a bit more malt to compensate for getting less sugar out due to not sparging. But, it will work fine.

 

[cswant88]

You should be fine. As already mentioned, you can probably expect a lower mash efficiency, add a little more grain to compensate, or mash in a bag so you can squeeze as much of that sweet wort as possible out of the grain. I know it's not traditional, but I bet you could get away with a single infusion mash without impacting the finished product too significantly. It's your time and effort, your call.

 

[bracconiere]

when i do step mashes, i draw off wort from the tun. bring it to a boil then add back.

 

[RM-MN]

when i do step mashes, i draw off wort from the tun. bring it to a boil then add back.

I've read that you should scoop up the mash with mostly grains and heat that, not just wort. I haven't tried it myself.

 

[bracconiere]

I've read that you should scoop up the mash with mostly grains and heat that, not just wort. I haven't tried it myself.

i've been told the same...but don't do it, because i'd be worried about tannins and the like...

 

[RM-MN]

i've been told the same...but don't do it, because i'd be worried about tannins and the like...

Tannins should only be extracted from the grains if the pH of the mash goes over 6.0. Normally your mash would be about 5.2 to 5.4 so no danger.

 

[bracconiere]

Tannins should only be extracted from the grains if the pH of the mash goes over 6.0. Normally your mash would be about 5.2 to 5.4 so no danger.

ahh, just know it's the only defect i can taste in beer.....i thought high temps did it too? i solved my tannin problem by lowering my sparge water to 168f, from boiling, before i even had a ph meter? (yeah i know the book i learned how to brew from was bad...or i was a stupid 18y.o., one or the other..swear it said boiling water)

 

[RM-MN]

ahh, just know it's the only defect i can taste in beer.....i thought high temps did it too? i solved my tannin problem by lowering my sparge water to 168f, from boiling, before i even had a ph meter? (yeah i know the book i learned how to brew from was bad...or i was a stupid 18y.o., one or the other..swear it said boiling water)

It takes the combination of high pH and high temps to extract the tannins. One without the other does not. You could have a very high pH with a cool mash and never notice the tannins or you could boil the grains but at a lower pH and be fine.

 

[bracconiere]

It takes the combination of high pH and high temps to extract the tannins. One without the other does not. You could have a very high pH with a cool mash and never notice the tannins or you could boil the grains but at a lower pH and be fine.

so maybe that book, forget the name...but it was Byron Birch's....that told me boiling hot water, and run the sparge full speed (or at least i didn't remember anything about slowly).. was as bad as i remember it....I did get alcohol though, which got me hooked!

i'll stick with boiling some run-off though, i don't want to have to sit there stirring until it boils, to keep it from burning the grains....

 

[JimRausch]

ve read that you should scoop up the mash with mostly grains and heat that, not just wort. I haven't tried it myself.

Pretty standard decoction technique, and it doesn't lead to tannin extraction, as long as your pH is in a normal range. Before I built my large cooler mashtun, when I used grainbills of larger than 13-14 lbs. I had to do a decoction anytime I wanted to do step mashes. Still do them with my Altbiers and Lagers just because I think they're fun!

 

[RPh_Guy]

I just wanted confirmation!

I wanted to reiterate what @cswant88 said:

A step mash isn't needed. You could do single infusion and have a nearly (or totally) indistinguishable result.

No-sparge technique is fine (and I use it sometimes!), but it does lower efficiency, everything else equal.
Tannins should not really an issue in most cases regardless. As mentioned by @RM-MN, to extract badness you need some combination of high heat, high pH, and low gravity.

Belgians are very yeast-driven beers, so you should focus on your fermentation technique more than mashing IMO.
Cheers.

 

[balrog]

If you boil the liquid you denature the enzymes therein
If you decoct with grist mostly, the enzymes still be in the mash tun working

Altho not after much time as @RM-MN will quickly attest.

 

[Vale71]

I've read that you should scoop up the mash with mostly grains and heat that, not just wort. I haven't tried it myself.

Actually since we're talking about Belgian beers what our friend the poacher is doing is historically accurate. Before the availability of a working thermometer all mashes were decoction mashes, one main difference between Belgium and the German speaking area is that in Belgium only wort was pulled and boiled whereas in Germany and neighbouring areas it was mostly grains that were pulled and boiled.