Question About Ferment Temps

[blanchmd]

Howdy all -- after a short stint extract brewing and then 4 years away, I am back with an all grain set up and passion to learn!

My first brew day was only partially disastrous, mash temp looked good when I closed the cooler, don't know what happened but when I opened it an hourly later it was actually warmer (160s) Oh well the beer will get over it but that is not my question...

I pitched a starter of US -05, this is an IPA. 15 hours I barely had a bubble but 30 hours in I probably have to install a blow off! In any case my cellar where the beer sits is 58 degrees. I have read that while on the low end, that is fine for US 05. I have also read to let the temp rise as fermentation winds down. So my question is .... how? How do you folks control ferment temps? And is the temp of the room in the carboy reflective of the temp inside the carboy? I would guess not, that the yeastie orgy is creating some heat. In any case I am interested in taking my beers to the next level with better control on all levels, ferment temp included. What's an easy way to measure the temp in the fermenter and modulate it? I have no dedicated ferment chamber though I do have a chest freezer I could convert if the price is economical.

Thanks!

 

[ArthurDigbySellers]

A lot of us, myself included, use a chest freezer to control fermentation temperature. If you are willing to give up the freezer to use for fermenting, it is actually really easy to "convert." All you will need is an external temperature controller, I use a Johnson Controls A419, to control your fermentation temps. The controller comes with a temperature probe that you can stick to the side of your fermentation vessel and you use the controller to either cool or warm your beer.

In the summer when you want to keep the beer cooler, the freezer is plugged into the temperature controller which controls the fermentation temperature by turning the freezer on and off as needed. You specify what temperature you want to ferment at by setting it on the controller.

In the winter, when you want to keep your beer warmer, you unplug the freezer completely and connect some kind of heat source to the temperature controller that will heat the freezer when needed (I used a hair dryer but there are plenty of methods).

There are also dual-stage controllers that you can plug in both a cold and heat source into to regulate your temperature that way as well. I think my A419 cost about $60 pre-wired which while not super cheap, is well worth it when you consider how important controlling fermentation temps is to the quality of your beer.

 

[Dirt_McGirt]

If you already have a freezer you can spare it's a no-brainer. Just get a temp controller to manage it.

I recently picked up the Inkbird 308 dual stage, and it's been great so far, and was only $39:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B011296704/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

If you want to actually measure the temp of the beer itself without buying an extra thermowell ($12), they also sell a 308S that has a 12" long sensor probe that you can insert directly into the top of the bucket once you drill a holl and install a grommet. They're $49, but Inkbird is running a promo in the sponsor forum with a code for 10% off for the next couple days:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B01A51OLR6/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[Natdavis777]

I used to ferment using your current situation. I would start off in a 60F basement and bring it upstairs to a 70F environment as fermentation subsided. So it is completely do-able. You might want to invest in some ferm strips or some other means of measuring the actual wort temp during fementation, as you are correct in that the wort temp is raised during fermentation.

I know utilize a chest freezer setup and my 20$ STC 1000 controller with the probe insulated against the side of the carboy for complete fermentation temp control.

 

[Qhrumphf]

The problem with many fermentation chamber designs is that air is a terrible insulator, and even in a fermentation chamber the fermentation temp vs. the ambient temp are seldom the same (I usually see fermentation temps 5°F above the ambient temp, but up to 10°F above isn't uncommon, and I've seen as high as 15°F above in a rapid Belgian fermentation). The problem with controlling the temp of the air around the beer as most folks do is that it doesn't actually control the fermentation, and as it slows down and the heat it produces subsides, the beer temp will usually start to fall, which is the opposite of what you want during the end of attenuation, cleanup, and conditioning.

For ales, I see no purpose in having a controlled chamber unless your ambient temp is either really warm, or really unstable. Put your fermenter in a tote bin, and surround it with water up to the level of the beer. The larger the bin/the more water, the greater the thermal mass and the more stable it will be. It will pin your fermentation temp to your ambient temperature (maybe a degree above at the most), as water insulates far better than air does. If you keep your room you ferment in the mid to upper 60s, that's good for most ales. Beyond that, you can adjust the temp of fermentation by adjusting the temp of the water (ice bottles to go down, a submersible heater to go up, but the further you go from ambient the more work it'll take to maintain. Doesn't work as well for lagers unless you keep your room stupidly cold, but it can be done. I have my Kölsch lagering at about 38°F right now (but at that temp it's a lot of work to maintain and not hugely stable, I wouldn't try to do an active lager fermentation this way but while cold conditioning I'm not hugely worried about it).

But as indicated above, using a heat source to keep your fermenter warm enough in an environment where it's too cold is going to be the most effective, as that actually pins the BEER temp where you want it. But that's the most resource intensive as you're overshooting cold and then using more heat to warm. But keep your chest freezer 35-40 for a lager with a fermwrap on the fermenter keeping it at 50 for a lager, or 45-55 chest freezer and 60-75 fermwrap for an ale.

Of course the best way is a jacketed conical pinning it exactly where you want it, but who has money for that?

 

[blanchmd]

Well this is a lot to consider, thanks so very much. I actuall slapped one of those temperature strips on the carboy today, haven't checked it yet

 

[hlmbrwng]

I recently picked up the Inkbird 308 dual stage, and it's been great so far, and was only $39:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B011296704/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I use this too. I also using a seed germination pad for warming.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=568724

 

[Johow]

If you attempt to control your freezer temp with some sort of controller, be aware of the power constraints of the device compared to the power consumption of your freezer. I currently use the inkbird-308 which will supply up to 1000watts. Different combos have different needs. If your cellar is a consistent 58 degrees, you might just need some sort of controlled low power wrap.

 

[muels]

A bin with water and maybe a few frozen water bottles is most economical. I use my chamber unless I'm full, then the bin.

 

[BigFloyd]

The temp differential between ambient air and fermenter contents is most pronounced, of course, during the peak of a vigorous fermentation and can be as high as 8-10*F (I've measured +7*F at the side of the bucket vs air). It helps, if you can, to chill the wort to a few degrees below the low end of the optimal range for the yeast being used before pitching and let it rise slowly on its own.

Your 58*F basement is a pretty darn good area for the first 5-7 days of US-05. Even better for Nottingham. After that, you can simply move it upstairs to finish for another week. The warmer living area temps (around 70-72?) won't hurt it once activity has died down.

That Inkbird controller or an STC-1000 box along with your chest freezer would be nice to have. No need for a probe sticking into your beer. The sensor taped to the outside of the fermenter and covered over with some bubble wrap or other insulation will give a plenty accurate reading.

 

[chisena]

Buy a fermentation controller (I prefer the Johnson A419) and hook it up to your chest freezer. It comes with a thermocouple. I then recommend a stainless thermowell from Duda Diesel. That allows you to get the thermocouple down into the fermenting wort, thereby controlling the wort temp directly. The A419 can be programmed to turn the freezer on when the temp of the wort rises a degree or two above where you want it. Likewise, if you reside in a cold climate, the A419 can also be configured to run a small space heater within the chest freezer if the wort gets too cold. Thats my 2 cents.

 

[Natdavis777]

For what its worth, I have a 419 I no longer have use for is you are interested...

 

[bkboiler]

if your environment is slightly cooler than optimal, you're set. just make sure to cool your wort down to 65-70 before pitching the yeast, then put a spare jacket around your carboy. I keep my 2.5 gallon fermenter between 58-65 night/day temps right now since I don't have a ferm heater.
I wrapped an old down jacket around it and I only see a swing of 62-64 on the ferm wrap and probably even less in the core of the liquid.
from what I understand though, s-05 can throw a peach ester near the COOLER range of the fermentation temps, which is somewhat uncommon for ale yeasts.