Question about Bottle Conditioning in my first-ever Homebrew

[davidabcd]

They are carbonating too fast. This is based on your original post. And from your video, it looked like they were fermenting. I have never seen bubbles in my bottles while fermenting. I'm not saying it's not normal but I should have seen it in mine at some point. I think you need to play defense and just pop the tops on all to avoid a big mess.
Edit: Three days in, approximately, there is normally just a bare sting from carbonation and not what you described.

 

[Kunal Vanjare]

They are carbonating too fast. This is based on your original post. And from your video, it looked like they were fermenting. I have never seen bubbles in my bottles while fermenting. I'm not saying it's not normal but I should have seen it in mine at some point. I think you need to play defense and just pop the tops on all to avoid a big mess.
Edit: Three days in, approximately, there is normally just a bare sting from carbonation and not what you described.

I didn't taste the beer. Closed the bottle instantly after the co2 was out. I don't know what to do now. I'll just pop the caps on all bottles, reseal them and put them in a box for the next few days and pray they survive until I'm back on Wednesday.

 

[Miraculix]

So I opened the PET bottle and there definitely was carbonation. There was a pop and some head that developed on the surface.

Is that a good sign or bad? Should I also open every other bottle to release the co2?

I'm leaving in another hour..

Shall I repeat it again?

 

[Kunal Vanjare]

Shall I repeat it again?

Maaannnn :-(

 

[Kunal Vanjare]

So I have popped all 3 bottles and kept them in a box at the same temperature.

The intensity of the 'pop' was different in each bottle. One with the highest heads pace had the most pressure built up inside.

Now I can't be thinking about it any more. What a time to go on vacation eh

 

[davidabcd]

Sorry I couldn't respond sooner. You now have more info under your belt for next time. Have a great vacation.

 

[Kunal Vanjare]

Sorry I couldn't respond sooner. You now have more info under your belt for next time. Have a great vacation.

Yep. Past 2 weeks have been a steep learning curve. Can't wait to brew my next batch.

Anyway thanks for all the guidance everybody. Hoping my next post on Wednesday would be a positive one

 

[davidabcd]

I have to admit, I'm kind of curious about what you're going to find when you get back, in a suspenseful movie sort of way.

 

[Taket_al_Tauro]

Yes I'm also looking forward to your post on Wednesday
Great vacation in the meantime, and try to relax!

 

[Kunal Vanjare]

I know you guys are being supportive, but this is feeling like additional pressure

J/k. You'll have been wonderful so far.

 

[Kunal Vanjare]

So I got back last night and found there were no bottle bombs!

This morning, I sampled a little bit of beer from one of the bottles, and I have to say it tastes like crap. I mean it feels like beer, but its too bitter right now. There is a nice aroma though, and it is definitely not sticky and feels quite light-bodied. Felt like it starts off a bit sweet, then ends quite bitter.. but that bitter taste is not a standard IPA bitter taste. Don't know if I can explain it any better.

Then I went ahead and checked the gravity and I must say that the gravity has dropped in a week inside the bottles. The Refractometer Brix readings have come down from 7.5 to about 7... which roughly translate to a gravity of 1.03 to 1.028. Although I am not sure how the beer will taste any better by leaving it in the bottles for another week or more.

Thoughts or suggestions please

 

[Taket_al_Tauro]

Glad to hear you and your bottles survived!
That isn't much of a gravity drop to be honest...but at least it seems the yeast was able to consume the priming sugar. Is the beer somehow carbonated already?

The overtly harsh/bitter taste can come from multiple issues:
-still too green dry hop flavor ( hop burn)
- harshness due to poor quality brewing water (I mean here also the chemical and mineral water profile, like alkalinity, pH and so on)
- fermentation issues.... this one at least seems likely since the beer apparently stopped at that high of a FG.

Anyway the beer is still too green. It must not, but it might well still get better with a few weeks further conditioning time.

As said I would now put the bottles in a warmer place if you can, like around 23 to 25 C would be best.
Then check one at regular intervals and see if gravity drops further.

 

[Kunal Vanjare]

Glad to hear you and your bottles survived!
That isn't much of a gravity drop to be honest...but at least it seems the yeast was able to consume the priming sugar. Is the beer somehow carbonated already?

The overtly harsh/bitter taste can come from multiple issues:
-still too green dry hop flavor ( hop burn)
- harshness due to poor quality brewing water (I mean here also the chemical and mineral water profile, like alkalinity, pH and so on)
- fermentation issues.... this one at least seems likely since the beer apparently stopped at that high of a FG.

Anyway the beer is still too green. It must not, but it might well still get better with a few weeks further conditioning time.

As said I would now put the bottles in a warmer place if you can, like around 23 to 25 C would be best.
Then check one at regular intervals and see if gravity drops further.

Yes! Both the beer and I survived haha. Thanks

The beer does have some carbonation. Probably needs a bit more, but surely it had a bit of a bite to it (from the very small sample I tasted this morning atleast). Like I said, the aroma is quite nice tbh. Just sucks that it tastes weird.

I used simple RO water without adding any salts. But I know a lot of homebrewers around here that use the same quality of water without too many issues.

Fermentation issues seem the most likely to me. What can I do about it right now

What is the purpose of leaving it at a higher temperature now? I will change the temp settings on the fridge to 24 degrees tonight, and monitor it for another week or two. My plans of calling this my '2020 New Beginnings IPA' is going all awry right now

I am actually planning to brew a new batch by next week, so looking forward to that!

 

[Kunal Vanjare]

If at all the gravity does drop a fair bit, what is the safe FG I can consume the beer at? 1.015 was the FG as per the recipe. I'm gonna assume this one is definitely not reaching that level.

 

[Taket_al_Tauro]

Yeah water is probably not the issue then...straight RO water should give you at least an OK beer also without any further water corrections (at least from what I hear...never used RO water myself).

The purpose of putting it warmer is to encourage the yeast to work further.
You may still get some gravity points down...

At 24 C, if gravity does not change anymore over a week or so, I think you can resign yourself that will be the final value.

For you next batch, be sure to have grist composition and mash temps under control, and above all, to pitch enough healthy yeast.
I would wager that it was either not enough, or a poor quality dry yeast you had there.

 

[Kunal Vanjare]

Yeah water is probably not the issue then...straight RO water should give you at least an OK beer also without any further water corrections (at least from what I hear...never used RO water myself).

The purpose of putting it warmer is to encourage the yeast to work further.
You may still get some gravity points down...

At 24 C, if gravity does not change anymore over a week or so, I think you can resign yourself that will be the final value.

For you next batch, be sure to have grist composition and mash temps under control, and above all, to pitch enough healthy yeast.
I would wager that it was either not enough, or a poor quality dry yeast you had there.

My mash temp & grist comps were quite on point I believe, as I hit the OG perfectly.

I'll just get some Campden for the water & a new pack of yeast and pray for the best next time. How do you pitch Campden btw?

 

[Taket_al_Tauro]

Yeah I believe a yeast issue was much more likely...
I know making starters with dry yeast is not recommended, it is also something most new homebrewers aren't getting into right at the beginning.... .BUT, if you are unsure of the yeast quality and do not want to risk ruining another batch, you could still get some DME ( dry malt extract) and make a small starter, like 0.5 L should be more than enough for your current small batch size...
That will give you a better probability you are pitching a healthy and growing yeast culture into your batch.. .

That said, if on the other hand you are confident about the quality of the dry yeast, please do not bother with a starter.
There are other things to focus on first as a new homebrewer

I do not have any experience with campden...why would you need it?

 

[Kunal Vanjare]

Yeah I believe a yeast issue was much more likely...
I know making starters with dry yeast is not recommended, it is also something most new homebrewers aren't getting into right at the beginning.... .BUT, if you are unsure of the yeast quality and do not want to risk ruining another batch, you could still get some DME ( dry malt extract) and make a small starter, like 0.5 L should be more than enough for your current small batch size...
That will give you a better probability you are pitching a healthy and growing yeast culture into your batch.. .

That said, if on the other hand you are confident about the quality of the dry yeast, please do not bother with a starter.
There are other things to focus on first as a new homebrewer

I do not have any experience with campden...why would you need it?

I'll look into the possibility of using DME for the next batch. Better safe than sorry, as they say.

Campden is for removing the Chlorines and Chloramines from the water. I don't know how much Chlorine levels are in the RO water, but I've been told it's a good practice to pitch some Campden powder anyway.

 

[Taket_al_Tauro]

Ok...but as far as I know, there should not be any chlorines/chloramines in RO water...it should be nearly 100% pure water, right? Or am I mistaken?

 

[Kunal Vanjare]

Ok...but as far as I know, there should not be any chlorines/chloramines in RO water...it should be nearly 100% pure water, right? Or am I mistaken?

I am not really good with water chemistry to be able to answer that

Although, Campden does have other benefits for homebrewing as well, which may be the reason why people suggest using it.

 

[Kunal Vanjare]

Also, for a 5L batch, is 500ml or 0.5L of water (sanitized) with about 71gms of DME(as per Brewers Friend) really required? I have seen some people use about 50-100ml of water for a 5L batch..

 

[Taket_al_Tauro]

Yes, you probably do not need 0.5 L. But 50-100 ml seems a bit low to me...I would still go for at least 200-300 ml. Purpose here is also to multiply some yeast.
I usually go 100 g of DME per liter of water. That's become a standard dosage for starters as far as I know.
Just add the DME to water, boil everything for a few minutes. Let it cool, aerate well (shaking for example), then pitch your yeast. Let it ride 16 to max. 24 hours, then pitch into the main batch.

 

[Kunal Vanjare]

Yes, you probably do not need 0.5 L. But 50-100 ml seems a bit low to me...I would still go for at least 200-300 ml. Purpose here is also to multiply some yeast.
I usually go 100 g of DME per liter of water. That's become a standard dosage for starters as far as I know.
Just add the DME to water, boil everything for a few minutes. Let it cool, aerate well (shaking for example), then pitch your yeast. Let it ride 16 to max. 24 hours, then pitch into the main batch.

Alright. I'll follow this regimen from the next batch onwards. Thanks!

 

[SEndorf]

To clarify, you don't need campden tablets with RO water. There are no chloramines to remove. RO water has virtually no minerals. Beer needs minerals for a thriving fermentation. It's a safe bet that many of the problems you encountered with this brew session were the result of using stripped RO water, particularly lacking calcium chloride. Unadjusted RO water is fine for extract brewing, but not for all grain.

 

[Kunal Vanjare]

To clarify, you don't need campden tablets with RO water. There are no chloramines to remove. RO water has virtually no minerals. Beer needs minerals for a thriving fermentation. It's a safe bet that many of the problems you encountered with this brew session were the result of using stripped RO water, particularly lacking calcium chloride. Unadjusted RO water is fine for extract brewing, but not for all grain.

In what proportion do you use Calcium chloride? And do you add it during the mash?

 

[SEndorf]

In the absence of a water calculator, a good resource is the water primer sticky in the brew science forum.

 

[Taket_al_Tauro]

To clarify, you don't need campden tablets with RO water. There are no chloramines to remove. RO water has virtually no minerals. Beer needs minerals for a thriving fermentation. It's a safe bet that many of the problems you encountered with this brew session were the result of using stripped RO water, particularly lacking calcium chloride. Unadjusted RO water is fine for extract brewing, but not for all grain.

While I fully agree that straight RO water might not be ideal from a flavor/mouthfeel standpoint, I did not imagine it could also impact fermentation performance... I thought malt would provide all the nutrients yeast needs for a healthy growth (including minerals)?

Now I know that brulosophy exbeeriments are somewhat controversial...but there was one about straight RO vs adjusted RO. If I am not mistaken there weren't any fermentation problems in the straight RO batch, and it finished at the same FG as the mineral-adjusted batch. But the majority of the participants still preferred the adjusted batch (flavor-wise).

So I'd still argue that the OPs main issue was most probably yeast quality/vitality.