Pyment Questions....

[Dr_Floyd]

I've been searching around these forums and the Internet in general and I'm finding very few Pyment recipes that use whole grapes. I'm interested in using whole wine grapes from a local vineyard (I live in California and we have tons of vineyards) but I can't find enough information on the process in order to make my own recipe.

1. How many pounds of red wine grapes should I use? I'm looking to make a slightly sweet dry mead.

2. Do I just lightly crush them, pulverize them, blend the **** out of them? Would using a hop bag be beneficial?

3. Yeast recommendations? And considering the recommendations how long should I leave it in Primary? Im to understand that you don't want to leave it on the whole grapes too long because they can get nasty.

4. Anything special I should know about fermenting wine grapes that's different from a standard Mead recipe?

5. When should I buy the grapes? I know that Late Harvest is sweeter. When are Cabernet Grapes harvested to make a standard Cabernet?


Thanks for your help, I realize that Mead is not nearly as popular or well known as Beer and I often find that Mead Making information is very light on details and science. So I'll take any help I can get.

 

[Frognostic]

Well, I think you'd begin in the manner of making wine by crushing the grapes to relieve the juice. You could use the free juice or maybe a press to extract any remaining juice. Also, if you're making red pyment macerate for how ever long it takes to impart the redness.

1. Depends on how much pyment you want to make. For whatever volume of liquid you want, you're probably going to need at least double the equivalent weight of solid fruit.

2. Do what they do if winemaking, crush them to relieve the juices so that you can add the honey later to the grape must.

3. Grape skins should have wild yeasts on them which will ferment just fine, if you don't want to do that buy a wine yeast. Leave it in the primary for about a month then rack off the lees. You don't want to leave it with the pulp too long but you will need to leave it long enough to impart the redness from the skins.

4. Water and honey mead needs the addition of nutrients because honey is nutrient deficient. Grape juice, on the other hand, is packed full of nutrients that enable it to ferment well. It might be easier fermenting honey with grape juice than with water.

5. Buy them when you want to buy them, or specifically, around the time/s they are harvesting. If the late harvest grapes are higher in sugars you may wish to add less honey to avoid it being cloyingly sweet.

When you have the grape juice take a specific gravity reading with your hydrometer and then add honey according to what you wish the original gravity to be / what the yeast is able to handle.

 

[Atek]

I've been searching around these forums and the Internet in general and I'm finding very few Pyment recipes that use whole grapes. I'm interested in using whole wine grapes from a local vineyard (I live in California and we have tons of vineyards) but I can't find enough information on the process in order to make my own recipe.

1. How many pounds of red wine grapes should I use? I'm looking to make a slightly sweet dry mead.

A: This depends on the type of grape but on average its 85 to 90 lbs of graps on the stem.

2. Do I just lightly crush them, pulverize them, blend the **** out of them? Would using a hop bag be beneficial?

A: Destem the grapes and press them. If red grapes leave some of the skins in the must, research the type of grape in that case and the standard typically done. White/Green grapes are typically not fermented on the skins.

3. Yeast recommendations? And considering the recommendations how long should I leave it in Primary? Im to understand that you don't want to leave it on the whole grapes too long because they can get nasty.

A: any wine yeast will do, but you'll want to research and decide which characterstics you want. Always treat your grape juice with sulfites before fermenting with commercial yeast, unless you want a more "natural" ferment. Typically do not leave the fermenting must on the skins longer than a month, there are exceptions depending on what you want from the grape skins.

4. Anything special I should know about fermenting wine grapes that's different from a standard Mead recipe?

A: Grape juice typically does not need any nutrients. You may want to get PH readings and Titratable Acidity readings BEFORE adding the honey and adjust. This is largely dependent on the weather that year and the region the grapes are from.

5. When should I buy the grapes? I know that Late Harvest is sweeter. When are Cabernet Grapes harvested to make a standard Cabernet?

A: This is the ultimate question... viticulturalists are testing the grapes acidity and sugar levels all summer long to estimate the correct picking time. Once it hits they need to sell their grapes quick and most have contracts to wineries already in place or wineries grow their own grapes and are on standby to start production immediately when the grapes are ready. I would get to know any vineyard owners or winery owners in your area and try to work out a deal for obtaining either grapes or pressed juice. Many wineries will have very nice grape pressing machines and may be willing to sell you some juice but you have to be there when they juice it on their schedule.


Thanks for your help, I realize that Mead is not nearly as popular or well known as Beer and I often find that Mead Making information is very light on details and science. So I'll take any help I can get.

The next questions you need to ask yourself is how much honey are you wanting to add? what type of grape wine is going to have an alcohol level that leaves you room to add honey as an additional fermentable? If you want it semi sweet perhaps its just a wine thats been finished/stabilized and sweetened with honey? Or you want a bold red and make it higher ABV to come out similar to a port (requires oaking).

This probably raises more questions for you but I'd suggest nailing down what you want, find the simplest way to accomplish this, or a way you THINK may accomplish it. Then try it, you will no doubt learn from it and start to develop your process to get exactly what you are looking for.

 

[TeeJo]

The way I see this, is that you make juice from the grapes, measure it's OG.

Match that up with enough honey/water mixture at equal OG.

Change your proportions as you see fit. (eg: 2 parts mead to 1 of grape juice, etc.)

Simply adding honey to grape juice, is pretty much a recipe for rocket fuel, I think.


TeeJo

 

[Kris L]

Hi all. Newbee here. Just made my first batch of mead, well actually a pyment. I just racked and stabilized. I'm planning to backsweeten but was thinking to use the dried grape skins to add some tannins. Is that a good idea? How would you recommend i go about that?

 

[Kris L]

Hi all. Newbee here. Just made my first batch of mead, well actually a pyment. I just racked and stabilized. I'm planning to backsweeten but was thinking to use the dried grape skins to add some tannins. Is that a good idea? How would you recommend i go about that?

Ps its only a 1 gallon.

 

[madscientist451]

Here's one method I've tried. Crush the grapes, then drain the "free run" juice and lightly press, and use that to make wine, leaving some juice with the skins. Place the pressed skins in a bucket and add water, honey and yeast. If you get 5 gallons of first run juice, add about 2.5 gallons of water and about 2 lbs honey per gallon. Its hard to tell how much more juice you'll get from the skins and what the gravity is after you add the water, but you can make some estimates based on what the gravity of the first run juice was. Press after 2-3 days and continue fermentation in a carboy.
To my taste, the watered down grape juice goes better with honey than the full strength juice. I prefer using white grapes to make pyment, this year I'll be using Cayuga and Melody grapes.
Also you may want to use your pyment as a blending ingredient if it doesn't suit your taste as it is. Sometimes I'll blend finished pyment with a full strength traditional mead or Saison type beer.