Purity of homebrew vs Big Corp ingredients

[Deadalus]

I hardly think the "big corp" breweries are putting knowingly harmful substances into their beers. I mean, why would they? It's not like that'd make the beers cheaper, and if it ended up hurting or killing their customers, that would cost them more money. Just sounds like unfounded paranoia. I'd be willing to bet that the big corp breweries are far "safer" than homebrewing on the whole, especially from some of the threads I've seen of overly adventurous homebrewers putting potentially dangerous ingredients in their beers.

That said, "purity" is not something I consider a benefit in beer. The Reinheitsgebot is anathema to what I want in beers (yes, there are plenty of delicious beers that adhere to those laws, of course, but I prefer experimentation and not being limited to what you can and can't put in your beers).

You don't think beverage manufacturers wouldn't consider adding substances to their beers that increase their profits (adjuncts anyone)? Knowingly harmful is a higher standard than potentially harmful or not shown to be harmful. While they are at the same time selling a product, alcohol, that has demonstrably negative effects.

Now consider reading food labels and all the ingredients that get added there. Try to get canned tomato sauce without corn syrup for instance. Or look at tobacco even, with all the extra crap that got added to cigarettes.

I'm not saying all companies are bad and don't care. It's naive in my opinion to think there's no chance of some less than healthy ingredients in commercial beer and calling the idea of such paranoia is naive as well.

 

[robint]

@worlddivides Yes well said

Its not so much the insertion of dangerous/harmful ingredients that concern me (although the rumours about using a formaldehyde preservative abound in the far east - indeed I can attest to the effects as it gives you unexpected memory lapses - no not due to ABV!!!!! - some cheaper beers were known for that effect.

Moving on - for example - additives may be used for marketing mongrels profit pursuit. eg traditional cask ales were barely carbonated at all and pulled on hand pumps (beer engines). Indeed a regular would likely complain if there was too much gas in his pint.
Hence the reputation amongst the anti - podeans that we Poms only like warm flat beer. Bless those little "strains" down under.

But think $$$$. If you force carbonate as in keg beer, you have a lot more fizz on your tongue and conversely IMHO you can be guided to accept a much thinner watery beer that otherwise.
If you have ever been confronted with a warm flat keg beer it will be a truly awful experience. So you see where I am going here. The Big Brew Corps found a way to add CO2 and greatly dilute the costly real grain ingredients.

A traditional Ale drinker is quite happy with a shelf temp (ideally 55F 13C) mostly flat beer cos its full of flavour.

Of course Traditional German/Belgian lagers are on a different planet and dont allow such dirty tricks in their brands.

Our UK common brands of Lager are a disgrace - just gassy flavoured water - huge con trick IMHO. Our punters are even persuaded its cool to drink this rubbish from a long neck bottle.

For a while we had a period of "Alcopops" to appeal to Teeny's eg alco-milk called Moo and even alco water called Cool

Give me a break.

BTW I am not the only tippler concerned about what the alcoholic drinks industry may get up to in the pursuit of profit.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4942262.stm
this list potential adjuncts below

TYPICAL INDUSTRY BEER ADDITIVES
Betaglucanase - to speed up fermentation
Ammonia caramel - coloring E150c
Rhoiso-alpha acids - synthetic hop extract affects insulin
Sulphur dioxide - preservative
Protease - for amino acids
Amyloglucosidase - enzyme to liquify starch
Propylene glycol alginate - Artificial heading agent
Silicone - anti foam agent

 

[worlddivides]

But think $$$$. If you force carbonate as in keg beer, you have a lot more fizz on your tongue and conversely IMHO you can be guided to accept a much thinner watery beer that otherwise.
If you have ever been confronted with a warm flat keg beer it will be a truly awful experience. So you see where I am going here. The Big Brew Corps found a way to add CO2 and greatly dilute the costly real grain ingredients.
[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
I think you have that backwards. Force carbonation is "purer" since it does not add anything except CO2. Bottle conditioning adds: CO2, ethanol, esters, and potentially even fusel alcohols. Keg carbonating doesn't make beer any "thinner" or "watery" than bottle conditioning. If anything, it's the opposite. CO2 adds zero liquid or material to the beer. It only adds CO2. Bottle conditioning adds priming sugar. Also, how does kegging "dilute" anything? And "costly real grain ingredients"? Bottle conditioning isn't done with "costly real grain ingredients." Also, why would kegging give you "a lot more fizz." CO2 is CO2. It gives you however much CO2 you add. You want a traditional English ale at 1.8 CO2 volumes? Then you carbonate it to that. You want 2.2 CO2 volumes? Then you carbonate it to that.

The "Big Brew Corps" found a way for much higher "purity" in the beer.

 

[worlddivides]

I think you have that backwards. Force carbonation is "purer" since it does not add anything except CO2. Bottle conditioning adds: CO2, ethanol, esters, and potentially even fusel alcohols. Keg carbonating doesn't make beer any "thinner" or "watery" than bottle conditioning. If anything, it's the opposite. CO2 adds zero liquid or material to the beer. It only adds CO2. Bottle conditioning adds priming sugar. Also, how does kegging "dilute" anything? And "costly real grain ingredients"? Bottle conditioning isn't done with "costly real grain ingredients." Also, why would kegging give you "a lot more fizz." CO2 is CO2. It gives you however much CO2 you add. You want a traditional English ale at 1.8 CO2 volumes? Then you carbonate it to that. You want 2.2 CO2 volumes? Then you carbonate it to that.

The "Big Brew Corps" found a way for much higher "purity" in the beer.



EDIT: For whatever reason, my response to Robint's post gets included in the quote, even though I'm writing it outside the quote.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Purity of home brew doesn't seem to be your real question.

Considering your mistrust of the brewing industry, Big Corp and misinformed ideas (kegged beer) have you considered a different hobby?

 

[robint]

Purity of home brew doesn't seem to be your real question.

Considering your mistrust of the brewing industry, Big Corp and misinformed ideas (kegged beer) have you considered a different hobby?

I have a deep distrust of all BIG CORPS. They are profit driven machines often at the expense of the consumer.

Take for example the scandal within the Tobacco industry. https://www.fda.gov/tobacco-products/products-ingredients-components/chemicals-every-cigarette
Sugar and ammonia compounds added which increase addiction and carcinogens.
The Food Industry is just as bad with processed food (just look at the chemicals added to snacks and sweets aimed at kids and sends them crazy
According to research funded by the Food Standards Agency, the 6 food colours most closely linked to hyperactivity in children are:

• E102 (tartrazine)
• E104 (quinoline yellow)
• E110 (sunset yellow FCF)
• E122 (carmoisine)
• E124 (ponceau 4R)
• E129 (allura red)

These colours are used in several foods, including soft drinks, sweets, cakes and ice cream.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

I have a deep distrust of all BIG CORPS. They are profit driven machines often at the expense of the consumer.

Take for example the scandal within the Tobacco industry. https://www.fda.gov/tobacco-products/products-ingredients-components/chemicals-every-cigarette
Sugar and ammonia compounds added which increase addiction and carcinogens.
The Food Industry is just as bad with processed food (just look at the chemicals added to snacks and sweets aimed at kids and sends them crazy
According to research funded by the Food Standards Agency, the 6 food colours most closely linked to hyperactivity in children are:

• E102 (tartrazine)
• E104 (quinoline yellow)
• E110 (sunset yellow FCF)
• E122 (carmoisine)
• E124 (ponceau 4R)
• E129 (allura red)

These colours are used in several foods, including soft drinks, sweets, cakes and ice cream.

I don't disagree with you but you're on a home brewing forum.

 

[mac_1103]

According to research funded by the Food Standards Agency, the 6 food colours most closely linked to hyperactivity in children are:

• E102 (tartrazine)
• E104 (quinoline yellow)
• E110 (sunset yellow FCF)
• E122 (carmoisine)
• E124 (ponceau 4R)
• E129 (allura red)

These colours are used in several foods, including soft drinks, sweets, cakes and ice cream.

Correlation does not equal causation. At minimum, without knowing every other ingredient in all of those products and what those ingredients are associated with independently, this "data" is about as close to meaningless as one can get.

 

[Broken Crow]

Perhaps you can consider becoming a Supporting Member.... This is not a consumer advocacy site, but primarily populated by those who already know about the lowest common denominator practices of major industries and that's the very reason we are here, not to rant about the available crap, but to make beer to own own standards. While you're not telling us anything we don't already know, ranting can be fun but can also quickly become 'politicized' and as a Supporting Member you'll have access to the private threads where the only thing you'll have to hold back on is 'offensive language'.
Most of us just wanna make our beer and help others on their brewing journey. All the basic ingredients for traditional beers are perfectly 'safe' and 'uncontaminated'.

 

[MaxStout]

I'm not saying this to be snarky. I'm quite serious. Perhaps you should look into raising your own ingredients for homebrewing. Grow grain (or buy from a trusted local farmer) and malt it yourself. You can also roast your malt, make smoked malt, etc. Raise hops. You can re-use yeast, grow it with starters. There is plenty of helpful discussion to get you started.

 

[mac_1103]

I don't disagree with you but you're on a home brewing forum.

Sir, this is an Arby's.

 

[robint]

You misunderstand my motives here Brew Buddies, I am fully behind the pursuit of pure home brewing and simply made note of the devious practices of Big Brewers and BTW PubCos which I experienced when I was an Owner Inn Keeper. For a while back say two decades home brew kits became a fad fashion. Im sure we know what rubbish was included them back then. It gave the concept of home brew a bad name and the practice has largely died out here in UK. Thankfully we are now so much better informed. There are members here who are in the stratosphere in terms of brewing skills - like comparing a Ford model T (me) with a Ferrari.

 

[robint]

@MaxStout - Now there's a funny think Malt it yourself. I have recently resurrected large Dutch Oven and doing some mods to make a Malting Oven. I am wrapping it with some fire safe insulation blanket so I can run it at temp say 70C overnight for very little energy on my gas hob. Ive tested it up to roast temp 200C on the lowest smallest gas flame. I have managed to produce 2kg grains so far. Its promising but looks a monster in my kitchen. Its about 3 gall. Just imagine it with a a 2" surroung thermal blanket

 

[kevin58]

Much ado about nothing.

 

[Broken Crow]

For a while back say two decades home brew kits became a fad fashion. Im sure we know what rubbish was included them back then.

You're quite late to the game and I suspect you've based more on urban-myths and conspiracy-seeking than facts;
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=home+brew+kits+in+the+uk+in+the+70's&ia=web
Malt extract, often pre-hopped and yeast... Just what 'rubbish' do you imagine is in there? The condensation of wort even with the addition of hops is such that has no need for the extra-expense of contaminating it, it's already as cheap as it can get and requires no preservatives or stabilizers. As you mention using 'white sugar' in another post as if there are no issues with that on the levels you're delving to, it suggests you either haven't researched far enough, or you're simply looking for issues to rant about. Malting, the preparation of hops and the propogation and distribution of yeast cannot be done with 'economic shortcuts'.
Nice kettle BTW... I wonder how much lead, nickel, cadmium, and possibly aluminium it will leech?

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

You misunderstand my motives here Brew Buddies, I am fully behind the pursuit of pure home brewing and simply made note of the devious practices of Big Brewers and BTW PubCos which I experienced when I was an Owner Inn Keeper. For a while back say two decades home brew kits became a fad fashion. Im sure we know what rubbish was included them back then. It gave the concept of home brew a bad name and the practice has largely died out here in UK. Thankfully we are now so much better informed. There are members here who are in the stratosphere in terms of brewing skills - like comparing a Ford model T (me) with a Ferrari.

You shouldn't have any "motives" to join in with conversations here. Good thought out questions and ideas would get the same from just about everyone. We are a supportive group.

Brew kits are not a fad and they haven't gave brewing a bad name. Many brewers are using them every day with great results. The ingredients in them are the same as the what we all use, just pre measured in smaller amounts.

 

[Bramling Cross]

I'm brewing as I write this post and this thread has inspired me to count the chemicals I've used, or will be using today. Spit balling, between my cleaning, sanitizing, mineral additions, acid adjustments, homemade invert sugar, finings, yeast helpers, and LODO skullduggery I'm at roughly 16 evil chemicals in my ordinary bitter.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

I'm brewing as I write this post and this thread has inspired me to count the chemicals I've used, or will be using today. Spit balling, between my cleaning, sanitizing, mineral additions, acid adjustments, homemade invert sugar, finings, yeast helpers, and LODO skullduggery I'm at roughly 16 evil chemicals in my ordinary bitter.

Save yourself, dump it out now!

 

[Broken Crow]

I'm brewing as I write this post and this thread has inspired me to count the chemicals I've used, or will be using today. Spit balling, between my cleaning, sanitizing, mineral additions, acid adjustments, homemade invert sugar, finings, yeast helpers, and LODO skullduggery I'm at roughly 16 evil chemicals in my ordinary bitter.

Sounds good.... I love me a good Bitter, just wished I lived nearby!

It looks great! https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/what-i-did-for-beer-today.294038/page-591#post-10426550

 

[Bramling Cross]

Save yourself, dump it out now!

Are you mad?! I'll be drawn and quartered by the EPA!

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Okay, against my better judgement here goes nothing…
The EU bans far more food additives than the US, so beer from Europe would probably be less adulterated than beer from countries that do not ban as many additives. (Not that most beer needs additives, but if corporate can color a beer with an artificial coloring more cheaply that with say roasted malt they probably will) That’s right, it’s probably been stated already, I confess I haven’t read through the entire thread. Please forgive me if you’ve written about that first.

As a homebrewer, I do use small amounts sulfites in ciders and meads. As a homebrewer I am interested in sourcing cleaner ingredients, organically grown malt and fruit etc. I don’t necessarily always succeed nor am I willing to pay double for those ingredients, but if I find organic 2row on sale I get it. This way I reduce the load of herbicides and pesticides.

If one is concerned about cleaning and sanitizing residue, one can add to their time spent and carbon foot print by using heat. I’ve never filled my oven with bottles with foil caps, before, but I know a handful of people that do.

 

[mac_1103]

Spit balling, between my cleaning, sanitizing, mineral additions, acid adjustments, homemade invert sugar, finings, yeast helpers, and LODO skullduggery I'm at roughly 16 evil chemicals in my ordinary bitter.

Don't forget all that H2O.

 

[Broken Crow]

Don't forget all that H2O.

Are you kidding?!? Even RO water retains 1-5% of the contaminants!....Best skip the water altogether;
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/this-site-is-dumb.701897/

 

[Bramling Cross]

Are you kidding?!? Even RO water retains 1-5% of the contaminants!....Best skip the water altogether;
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/this-site-is-dumb.701897/

That killed me! I imagined someone eating DME straight out of the bag with their mouth caked with DME dust and sludge.

 

[MaxStout]

Save yourself, dump it out now!

That's alcohol abuse!

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

That killed me! I imagined someone eating DME straight out of the bag with their mouth caked with DME dust and sludge.

Doesn't everyone do that? A lot less messier than the LME

 

[Bramling Cross]

Doesn't everyone do that? A lot less messier than the LME

Right, but there's significantly more dihydrogen monoxide in LME. DME is way more pure.

Ever try bumping a line of LME? That's right, you can't.

 

[Bramling Cross]

Okay, against my better judgement here goes nothing…
The EU bans far more food additives than the US, so beer from Europe would probably be less adulterated than beer from countries that do not ban as many additives. (Not that most beer needs additives, but if corporate can color a beer with an artificial coloring more cheaply that with say roasted malt they probably will) That’s right, it’s probably been stated already, I confess I haven’t read through the entire thread. Please forgive me if you’ve written about that first.

As a homebrewer, I do use small amounts sulfites in ciders and meads. As a homebrewer I am interested in sourcing cleaner ingredients, organically grown malt and fruit etc. I don’t necessarily always succeed nor am I willing to pay double for those ingredients, but if I find organic 2row on sale I get it. This way I reduce the load of herbicides and pesticides.

If one is concerned about cleaning and sanitizing residue, one can add to their time spent and carbon foot print by using heat. I’ve never filled my oven with bottles with foil caps, before, but I know a handful of people that do.

Silliness aside, that's a solid point. I do give some serious consideration to the overall carbon foot print of my brewery. And not just because I think it's important for ecological reasons, I'm wretchedly cheap.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Right, but there's significantly more dihydrogen monoxide in LME. DME is way more pure.

You're making my mouth water now!

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Right, but there's significantly more dihydrogen monoxide in LME. DME is way more pure.

Ever try bumping a line of LME? That's right, you can't.

How has the brew gone?

Trying to inject some seriousness to a thread that has little hope

I'm kegging a Bock tomorrow. Gravity is perfect. All grain recipe and as far as I know no poison substances in it, but with the ABV it doesn't really matter.