Purging to remove oxygen?

[JONNYROTTEN]

I get a ton of bubbles flowing through my auto siphon. Makes me nervous I'm introducing Oxygen.
Then while purging I thought to myself, Bubbles rise to the top and burst. Wouldn't purging about 10 minutes after racking to keg remove any oxygen being introduced. I wouldnt think oxygen immediately blends with the beer but I have no idea.

Am I worrying for nothing?

 

[derekcw83]

It does mix. And yes it is something to worry about. If you're getting bubbles where your tubing connects to the siphon, you either need smaller inner diameter tubing, or else need to kinda pinch the tubing at that point when getting started. If bubbling is occurring in the siphon, I'm not sure but you could need a new siphon. I purge right away, but I also am good about avoiding bubbling during transfer.

 

[IslandLizard]

Preventing air take up is always best. Auto siphons seem to be troublesome. Make sure the hose is tight fitting. Use a clamp if needed. A slightly deformed rubber gasket in the bottom can be source of leaks too.

I've been using a 3/8" stainless racking for 8 years, and never had any bubbles. Racking hose is pretty tight on it. I fill kegs that are 100% pre-purged through the liquid in post. Then purge the headspace 5-10x.

I was thinking too how to reduce any leftover O2. I think the problem is O2 dissolves, and purging will not undissolve it, you need something that binds and/or removes it. Bubbling CO2 through the diptube, maybe, with the PRV open?

 

[Yooper]

I was thinking too how to reduce any leftover O2. I think the problem is O2 dissolves, and purging will not undissolve it, you need something that binds and/or removes it. Bubbling CO2 through the diptube, maybe, with the PRV open?

You need something to bind to the beer BEFORE the oxygen can. Winemakers, for instance, use sulfites for this purpose.

Once oxygen contact has occurred, you can't "erase" it by adding a new gas to the mix.

Ideally, every one of us could do closed transfers with c02 in purged vessels, but the reality is that few of us can actually do that. So do the best you can to minimize any oxygen uptake, including fixing any bubbling in the siphon/tubing and make sure there is no splashing.

 

[derekcw83]

In regards to this topic, I have a question regarding the closed transferring of beer from fermenter to keg through the liquid post. Isn't there some oxygen introduced when racking and attaching co2 to the carboy cap or putting the racking cane into the carboy cap?

 

[schematix]

In regards to this topic, I have a question regarding the closed transferring of beer from fermenter to keg through the liquid post. Isn't there some oxygen introduced when racking and attaching co2 to the carboy cap or putting the racking cane into the carboy cap?

Yah there is and its a staggering amount. Even in a closed racking system there's going to a measurable amount. What makes it so difficult is that air is about 200,000 ppm O2. Diluting that is impractical.

If you follow the likes of Brulosopher, BYO, Denny, Palmer, or some others, you can continue doing what you do because oxidation isn't real.

When you realize they have financial interest in serving the new brewers who wants to KISS and are ready to up your game a bit, come over to http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/.

The best defense against oxygen taking hold is active fermentation. That means racking either at final gravity with priming sugar already added and being actively consumed, or racking before final gravity. This also gets you natural carbonation for free.

See kegging link in my signature for some more info. There are bits and pieces you can take from it.

 

[derekcw83]

Very good information. I like your system. Being that I dont have multiple kegs to pull this off, I'm going to have to try using an active fermentation. Funny you chimed in with this info as this was my next test to try before buying more equipment. I plan to use priming sugar before racking an ipa to a keg and see if it improves the life of my beer. Thanks again for the info.

 

[schematix]

The fuller you can get your serving keg the better because it means there's less head space that you have to worry about purging.

 

[brewbama]

...

If you follow the likes of Brulosopher, BYO, Denny, Palmer, or some others, you can continue doing what you do because oxidation isn't real.

When you realize they have financial interest in serving the new brewers who wants to KISS ...

What? You believe these guys think oxidation isn't real?

 

[schematix]

What? You believe these guys think oxidation isn't real?

They have all made comments recently saying that oxidation isn't an issue. But several of them have also said it's a good idea to reduce oxygen exposure. Which begs the question if it's not an issue, why bother to reduce it? I do think some of them know it's real but for previously stated reason don't push it.

Oxygen is a significant cause of the 'home brew flavor'. It doesn't ruin the beer but it does make it different.

The reality is that it's hard to reduce to meaningful levels, but it can be done if you're knowledgeable, careful, and have the right equipment. You can't just purge your keg headspace with CO2 twice and call it done.

 

[brewbama]

Oxidation isn't an issue is far and wide different than oxidation isn't real.

I believe the cost of the "right equipment" you refer to has to be weighed against the "it doesn't ruin beer" impact of oxidation. I imagine it's worth it to some but not so much for others.

Then there's finances. Even if it is worth it a budget is a finite resource. If you don't have the extra cash it doesn't matter how big a difference it makes. "Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." Theodore Roosevelt