Pure Malt taste experiment

[IslandLizard]

I'm doing a bunch of small batches to get just the malt flavors from the different base malts, like Maris Otter, Optic, Wheat etc.

Each is being mashed high (158) to get it as malty as possible. I'll boil for 30 minutes and chill.

I'll be fermenting them out with US-05, cold crash, then put in bottles. No carbonation.

Now here comes the dilemma:
Should I add a few pellets of neutral bittering hops at the beginning of the boil, such as Magnum or Nugget to get 20-25 IBU in the beer? It really isn't beer unless it has some hops and bitterness IMO. But will the extra bitterness and flavor of the hops reduce the sensory experience of the malt too much or actually enhance it?

Any input appreciated.

They're mashing now as I write this.

 

[1977Brewer]

I'd definitely hop them. Low dose, early boil.

 

[Bill_in_VA]

bitter it a little.
I'd carb or you'll lose out on some aroma. And carbonic bite won't be present so you'll get less of an idea of what it'd be like in a beer. You could carb low ~1.8 volumes if you wanted.

 

[IslandLizard]

I'd definitely hop them. Low dose, early boil.

Would FWH at 20-25 IBU with Magnum suffice? Would Nugget be better?

Is 30' boil long enough or do I risk DMS? The batches are 3/4 gallon pre-boil.

I can boil 4 pots at a time.

 

[IslandLizard]

bitter it a little.
I'd carb or you'll lose out on some aroma. And carbonic bite won't be present so you'll get less of an idea of what it'd be like in a beer. You could carb low ~1.8 volumes if you wanted.

OK, that's a good point. I can use soda bottles.

 

[stpug]

Sounds like a fun project. I'd be interested in your observations when all is said and done.

One comment I had was about the yeast: US05, while being a "neutral" yeast strain, is not known for showcasing the malt character in beer. In fact, quite the opposite; it's good and subduing the malt character. I would personally opt for a yeast strain that is moderately high attenuating, relatively clean, and known for malt-forward beers.

 

[stpug]

Maybe a strain like:
Scottish/Edinburgh Ale or
WLP013/WY1028 (London Ale)

or even S04

 

[IslandLizard]

Sounds like a fun project. I'd be interested in your observations when all it said and done.

One comment I had was about the yeast: US05, while being a "neutral" yeast strain, is not known for showcasing the malt character in beer. In fact, quite the opposite; it's good and subduing the malt character. I would personally opt for a yeast strain that is moderately high attenuating, relatively clean, and known for malt-forward beers.

S-04 perhaps? What else would you recommend? Don't want a lot of esters in there.

 

[IslandLizard]

Maybe a strain like:
Scottish/Edinburgh Ale or
WLP013/WY1028 (London Ale)

or even S04

Ah, you got that in before I asked. Excellent!

How about WY1098/WLP007? I got a starter for that ready. Too estery?

 

[stpug]

Ah, you got that in before I asked. Excellent!

How about WY1098/WLP007? I got a starter for that ready. Too estery?

I think 1098/007 is a great option (the liquid forms of S04 as I understand it). Ferment with the idea of keeping esters subdued (plenty of oxygenation, pitching full ale quantities, fermenting on the cooler end of recommended) and I don't think you'll have to "wade" through the yeast much in order to find the malt.

 

[IslandLizard]

WY1098 it shall be.

Thank all of you for the speedy responses. :rockin:

I'll keep this updated.

 

[RM-MN]

Make sure to taste the wort at the end of the mash since that will be unadulterated and should give you the best idea of what the contribution of the grains is.

 

[ArcLight]

I'm doing a bunch of small batches to get just the malt flavors from the different base malts, like Maris Otter, Optic, Wheat etc.

Each is being mashed high (158) to get it as malty as possible. I'll boil for 30 minutes and chill.

I'll be fermenting them out with US-05, cold crash, then put in bottles. No carbonation.

Now here comes the dilemma:
Should I add a few pellets of neutral bittering hops at the beginning of the boil, such as Magnum or Nugget to get 20-25 IBU in the beer? It really isn't beer unless it has some hops and bitterness IMO. But will the extra bitterness and flavor of the hops reduce the sensory experience of the malt too much or actually enhance it?

Any input appreciated.

They're mashing now as I write this.

IslandLizard,
You can make a concentrated hop tea, by boiling the hops in water for 90 minutes to get Maximal extraction, then pour some in each of your beers.
That may be easier than adding hops to each small batch and having to filter out the hops.

Sounds like a fun experiment.

 

[dlaramie08]

I wouldn't aim for that arbitrary number. Look at the graph for the bu:gu ratio and make sure your beer is in the malty range, otherwise 20-25 ibu may not showcase the malt like you want.

Edit: you also may consider boiling for a full 60 minutes because there are many flavoring reactions that occur during the boil in wort associated with malt. Your malt flavor with a 30 minute boil may differ with the same recipe boiled for 60 minutes.

 

[IslandLizard]

Make sure to taste the wort at the end of the mash since that will be unadulterated and should give you the best idea of what the contribution of the grains is.

Yes, good point. I kept some sweet wort behind that is being frozen now for comparison to the fermented product later.

We do need to realize, no-one drinks sweet wort, it's the beer from it that we're after, so it has always been processed by yeast. That's where diversion sets it on a grand scale. Yeast profile, temperature, byproducts, alcohols, esters, you name it, the good and the bad are all incorporated.

That said, these malty taste-test beers are just a few possible iterations out of millions. As long as the malt taste from each malt can be identified and described to some degree and differences among them can be detected, I deem the experiment successful. The results can then be used as an aid to better distinguish malts used in a beer and in formulating new recipes or tweaking existing ones. This is a qualitative test of course, I hope to collect some useful data.

 

[IslandLizard]

IslandLizard,
You can make a concentrated hop tea, by boiling the hops in water for 90 minutes to get Maximal extraction, then pour some in each of your beers.
That may be easier than adding hops to each small batch and having to filter out the hops.

Sounds like a fun experiment.

I was contemplating that approach, and it's a valid one, doping each beer with either just the right or the same amount.

I ended up boiling each with 2 grams of leaf Magnum for around 25 IBUs. Wort gravity was normalized to 1.060 at the end of the boil.

 

[IslandLizard]

I wouldn't aim for that arbitrary number. Look at the graph for the bu:gu ratio and make sure your beer is in the malty range, otherwise 20-25 ibu may not showcase the malt like you want.

Edit: you also may consider boiling for a full 60 minutes because there are many flavoring reactions that occur during the boil in wort associated with malt. Your malt flavor with a 30 minute boil may differ with the same recipe boiled for 60 minutes.

All worts were standardized to 1.060 after boil by adding brewing water. I used the same amount of hops in each, 2 grams. The projected 25 IBUs maybe too much, only taste can tell. It's a qualitative experiment for now.

Agreed the added flavoring from kettle reactions should not be ignored, as that's part of the regular brewing process. In small batches it seems kettle reactions to take place faster, and I've noticed that first hand. No data, just sheer global taste impressions.

I ended up boiling for 40 minutes, as a compromise.

 

[IslandLizard]

I'm planning to steep a bunch of crystal and specialty malts, C10, C20, C40, C80, C120, Special B, Honey malt, a dark English malt, Chocolate, and a few dark roasted ones. Perhaps others. Boil for 30 minutes, chill, and bottle. Target gravity 1.040 or thereabout. I may qualitatively lower the gravity of some to bring them all to similar taste levels.

I'm open to suggestions and alternatives on how to process those Crystal and specialty malts for a similar qualitative taste experiment? Again, the object is taste contribution of each of those malts.

 

[dlaramie08]

You might try to find some other refined palates as well that can give you some objective feedback on flavor notes. Then compare everyone's notes and the overlap in flavors could be considered consistent.

 

[IslandLizard]

You might try to find some other refined palates as well that can give you some objective feedback on flavor notes. Then compare everyone's notes and the overlap in flavors could be considered consistent.

Oh yeah, that's the whole idea. It will be interesting to see what rolls out.

The crystals and special malts are still a bit of a question mark as you can't ferment those by themselves. And brewing 8-10 beers with only one of them added to each 2-row batch will take a lot of time.

The first taste test of the sweet wort is very promising. Definitely 3 very different flavor profiles.